Greek Government Press Briefing, 07-10-23

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Trith, 23 Oktwbrioy 2007

Ariqmos Deltioy: 102239731

Ekdosh 1

brf2310

YPOYRGOS EPIKRATEIAS

Aqhna, 23 Oktwbrioy 2007

Xairete.

H Kybernhtikh Epitroph qa synedriasei ayrio, stis 10 to prwi, me qemata toy Ypoyrgeioy Anaptyjhs.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Kyrie Ypoyrge, symfwna me to prwtoselido ths efhmeridas ``TA NEA'', o Prwqypoyrgos exei zhthsei apo toys ypoyrgoys toy kai apo ton Proedro ths Boylhs kapoio roysfeti, se o,ti afora toys stenoys toy synergates. ``Na toys taktopoihsei'', na toys monimopoihsei. Isxyei ayto; Ti akribws symbainei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na jekinhsoyme apo ta basika, ta opoia gnwrizoyn osoi exoyn asxolhqei me thn ennoia ``metaklhtos ypallhlos''. ``Metaklhtos'' einai o ypallhlos  allwste to leei kai h lejh- poy metakaleitai. Dhladh: Me to poy analambanei kaqhkonta ena politiko proswpo  eite einai ypoyrgos, eite boyleyths- kai en synexeia otan ayto to proswpo pacei na einai sth qesh poy einai, o ypallhlos poy exei metaklhqei feygei. Den exei kamia dynatothta monimopoihshs. Ayto, loipon, einai to prwto kai basiko shmeio: Den yparxei kanenos eidoys dynatothta monimopoihshs enos metaklhtoy ypallhloy. Deyteron: Oi paragrafoi 1,2 kai 3 toy arqroy 14 toy sxedioy nomoy ``Ryqmiseis qematwn Anejarthtwn Arxwn genikoy epiqewrhth Dhmosias Dioikhshs, Swmatos Epiqewrhtwn Elegktwn Dhmosias Dioikhshs kai loipwn zhthmatwn'', armodiothtas toy Ypoyrgeioy Eswterikwn, oi opoies aposyrqhkan xqes to brady, opws me enhmerwse o armodios Ypoyrgos k. Paylopoylos, den aforoyn to metaklhto proswpiko  opws sas eipa- toy Politikoy Grafeioy toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai ths Genikhs Grammateias ths kybernhshs. Aforoyn mono to monimo proswpiko, kaqws kai to proswpiko poy yphretei me sxesh Idiwtikoy Dikaioy Aoristoy Xronoy.

Den noeitai apospash, metatajh h metakinhsh metaklhtoy proswpikoy se qeseis monimwn  opws eixa thn eykairia na sas epishmanw apo thn arxh- kai epomenws kanenos eidoys ``taktopoihsh'' h monimopoihsh den mporei na noeitai h na ypokryptetai. To mono proswpiko poy qa mporoyse na kanei xrhsh twn paragrafwn aytwn toy sygkekrimenoy sxedioy nomoy einai monimoi h aoristoy xronoy ypallhloi.

Afhnoyme toys monimoys kata meros -etsi kai alliws monimoi den yparxoyn, para monon aytoi poy einai edw kai orismena xronia prin arxisoyn na isxyoyn oi shmerinoi nomoi- kai pame stoys aoristoy xronoy. Oi ypallhloi poy yphretoyn me sxesh Aoristoy Xronoy einai 17, idiws sthn Yphresia Dioikhtikhs Merimnas toy Politikoy Grafeioy toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai sth Genikh Grammateia ths kybernhshs. Oi 11 ej aytwn einai ypallhloi aoristoy xronoy, diorismenoi apo ton tote Prwqypoyrgo k. Shmith. Peran aytwn, apo ton Martio toy 2004 ews shmera, sth Genikh Grammateia ths kybernhshs kai sto Politiko Grafeio toy Prwqypoyrgoy exoyn proslhfqei mono metaklhtoi ypallhloi, stoys opoioys den qa mporoysan  epanalambanw gia trith fora- na exoyn efarmogh aytes oi diatajeis. Ara, den tiqetai kanena qema eynoias h ``taktopoihshs'' dhqen hmeterwn.

PALAIOLOGOS: Eipate kapoia stigmh oti htan kapoies ryqmiseis oi opoies aposyrqhkan ...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws me enhmerwse o k. Paylopoylos, nai. Oytws h allws, qa ta pei o idios, ayrio, sthn Epitroph ths Boylhs.

PALAIOLOGOS: Aposyrqhkan kai aytes poy aforoysan to monimo proswpiko; Ayto den exw...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me apla ellhnika: Ayto to opoio proeblepe ayth h diatajh, einai h dynatothta na ginontai apospaseis twn ypallhlwn aytwn se alles yphresies, sth Boylh, se boyleytes, opoydhpote, pantws se alles yphresies. H kybernhsh toy Kwsta Karamanlh den diekoce kamia symbash apo ekeines poy yphrxan kai poy qa eixe th dynatothta na to kanei, apo aytes poy eixan oristei epi kybernhsews Shmith. Ypallhloi einai kai ergazontai ekei. Mporei, omws, na qeloyn na pane kapoy alloy. Exei allajei h kybernhsh, kapoios ypallhlos mporei na mhn qelei na meinei sthn idia qesh, sto Politiko Grafeio toy Prwqypoyrgoy h sth Genikh Grammateia ths kybernhshs. Dinotan, loipon, ayth h dynatothta se monimoys ypallhloys h aoristoy xronoy gia apospaseis se alla grafeia ths Boylhs. Einai teleiws diaforetiko to qema apo ayto poy diatypwqhke me ton tropo poy diatypwqhke. Epanalambanw, gia trith kai teleytaia fora: Oi metaklhtoi ypallhloi den mporei na ginoyn monimoi, den yparxei kamia diadikasia monimopoihshs. Ayth h ryqmish den stoxeye sto na monimopoihsei kapoion ypallhlo, stoxeye mono sto na mporei na ginontai apospaseis h metatajeis twn monimwn h aoristoy xronoy ypallhlwn, gia toys opoioys sas ekana kai eidikh anafora.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Dhladh o Prwqypoyrgos den zhthse roysfeti.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi.

KAKALHS: H istoria afora 17 ypallhloys, oloys kai oloys, h ryqmish ayth;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ej oswn me enhmerwnoyn, oi aoristoy xronoy kai oi monimoi einai dekaepta.

KAKALHS: Mono aytoys afora;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nai. Epanalambanw: H dynatothta apospashs, h opoia -qelw na sas qymisw, h na sas gnwstopoihsw, giati den eiste ypoxrewmenoi na to jerete- ginetai katopin symfwnias kai twn dyo yphresiwn. An, dhladh, apo to Ypoyrgeio Eswterikwn zhthqei apospash ypallhloy apo tis Genikes Grammateies Epikoinwnias kai Enhmerwshs, symfwnoyn kai ta dyo Ypoyrgeia, ginetai mia grafeiokratikh diadikasia kai phgainei na doylecei alloy. Omws, se kaqe periptwsh, einai jekaqaro oti metaklhtos ypallhlos den monimopoieitai. Ara, den milame gia kanenos eidoys monimopoihsh. Milame gia metaqeseis-apospaseis.

MPESKENHS: Dieykrinistika ep` aytoy, gia na katalabw pio kala. Gia toys 17, an prokeitai gia monimoys, apo ta liga poy jerw gia th leitoyrgia ths Dhmosias Dioikhshs, den problepetai etsi kai alliws h apospash toys, h h metatajh toys, h opoia allh lejh mporei na xrhsimopoihqei ep` aytoy; Qelw na pw, dhladh, giati xreiazetai eidikh ryqmish, giati einai toso aparaithto ayto, afoy ap` oti exoyme dei kai se alles periptwseis oi ypallhloi feygoyn kai pane se alla grafeia h se alles yphresies.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H ``wfeleia'', opws me enhmerwnoyn armodiws, qa synistato apokleistika kai mono sth dynatothta apospashs-metatajhs h metafora toy proswpikoy aytoy -poy exei oytws h allws diasfalismenh ergasiakh qesh, afoy einai monimo h aoristoy xronoy- eite sth Boylh, eite sth Genikh Grammateia Dhmosias Dioikhshs kai Hlektronikhs Diakybernhshs toy Ypoyrgeioy Eswterikwn. Kamia ``wfeleia'' peraiterw, ``taktopoihsh'' h monimopoihsh. Problepontan, dhladh, qeseis stis opoies qa mporoysan aytoi oi anqrwpoi na doylecoyn.

LEONTITSH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, einai eylogo to erwthma. Giati aposyrqhkan tote aytes oi ryqmiseis;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sto erwthma sas qa apanthsei ayrio analytika o k. Paylopoylos. Qa sas pw poly syntoma oti ena kommati ayths ths ryqmishs telei ypo thn airesh ths allaghs toy Kanonismoy ths Boylhs. Etsi loipon, den qa mporoyse na ginei ean den exei allajei prohgoymenws o Kanonismos ths Boylhs. Sto parelqon -opws plhroforhqhka- antistoixes ryqmiseis ginontoysan kai meta eixe allajei o Kanonismos ths Boylhs kai tis epibebaiwne. Ofeiloyme, omws, na eimaste entajei. Telei, loipon, ena kommati aytwn twn allagwn ypo thn airesh toy Kanonismoy ths Boylhs kai kata synepeia prwta qa allajei o Kanonismos ths Boylhs kai en synexeia qa ginei oti einai na ginei.

GKOYTZANHS: Biasynh tote h proxeirothta, kyrie Ekproswpe;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mporeite na kanete opoia sxolia qelete, alla egw den qa probw se kapoio sxolio. H proqesh exei shmasia kai h proqesh einai safhs.

GKOYTZANHS: Den mphka sthn proqesh. To ennow apo apoch estw ayto, oti proetoimazetai ena metro kai paroysiazetai. Kapoia stigmh to blepoyme...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den einai ena metro to opoio ephreazei th zwh xiliadwn h ekatommyriwn Ellhnwn. Einai ena dioikhtiko metro. Nomizw oti kaqenas katalabainei th skopimothta. Mono qetika mporei na th dei kapoios ayth thn prajh. Apo ekei kai pera, to an symbei ena mikro laqos, h ean en pash periptwsei -ennow panta se sxesh me to prin thn allagh toy Kanonismoy ths Boylhs- h meta giati sas eipa oti yparxoyn periptwseis sto parelqon, opoy eixan ginei antistoixes ryqmiseis kai en synexeia problefthkan sthn allagh toy Kanonismoy ths Boylhs.

KAKALHS: H anataraxh, oi trigmoi sto PASOK, anhsyxoyn thn kybernhsh, me thn ennoia poy kai h idia exei qesei oti krithrio gia tis ejelijeis sto PASOK, einai h staqerothta toy politikoy systhmatos; Kai deytereyontws, fobaste mhpws kollhsete kai eseis;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi.

KAKALHS: Apanthsate monolektika, den akoysa.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nai. Eipa oxi.

KAKALHS: Deyteron, hqela na rwthsw, ephreazei to sxediasmo ths kybernhshs, oson afora thn prowqhsh toy kybernhtikoy ergoy kai twn metarryqmisewn; As poyme, sto Asfalistiko, ston Kapodistria II;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Ej oswn gnwrizw, ayrio sth Boylh, sthn armodia epitroph yparxei synexeia ths syzhthshs gia to Asfalistiko. Dhladh, synexizetai kanonika h syzhthsh. Kai to PASOK synexizei kanonika na leitoyrgei sth Boylh, fantazomai.

MELIGKWNHS: Eipate xqes, oti den yparxei kapoia premoyra sthn kybernhsh gia analogistikh meleth. Wstoso, se erwthsh thn Paraskeyh, mas eipe o k. Antwnaros, ap` oti ton enhmerwse o k. Magginas, thn prohgoymenh hmera to brady, oti eixe ftasei apo to Dieqnes Grafeio Ergasias h meleth h opoia htan sta agglika, kai qa epairne liges hmeres na metafrastei. Kai dyo wres argotera, diarreei h meleth, metafrasmenh sta ellhnika, me hmeromhnia 15 Oktwbrioy. Ayto, pws to ejhgeite;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qelete na epanadiatypwsete thn arxh ths erwthsews sas; Ti, eipa akribws, egw. Giati qymamai poly kala ti eipa, alla qelw na dw pws to exete katalabei eseis.

MELIGKWNHS: Eseis, pws ejhgeite to gegonos oti mas leei edw o Anaplhrwths Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos oti h meleth eftase to brady ths Pempths kai einai sta agglika. Opote qa parei kapoio xrono na metafrastei kai endexomenws apo Deytera, apo xqes, qa mporoyse na dianemhqei sta kommata kai toys foreis kai dyo wres meta diarreei h meleth, h anakoinwnetai, den jerw pws akribws eftase, den kanw ergatiko reportaz, h opoia einai metafrasmenh sta ellhnika, me hmeromhnia 15 Oktwbrioy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Katarxas exete xrhsimopoihsei ena laqos oro. H en pash periptwsei, xrhsimopoihsate enan oro, poy eipa xqes egw, me laqos tropo. Xairomai poy sthn epanadiatypwsh ths erwthsews den to eipate. Deyteron, se o,ti afora th diarroh, den milame gia diarroh. Ej oswn gnwrizw, paroti hmoyn sthn Portogalia kai parakoloyqhsa thlefwnikws to qema syzhtwntas me ton armodio ypoyrgo, h armodia Anejarthth Arxh Analogistikwn Meletwn einai ayth h opoia edwse sth dhmosiothta th meleth. Den omiloyme, loipon, peri diarrohs, giati h diarroh opws gnwrizete ws dhmosiografos eseis, kalytera apo emena, emperiexei mia skopimothta. Ara, loipon, den omiloyme peri diarrohs. Triton, milame gia mia meleth, h opoia opws eipa kai xqes qa symperilhfqei stis skeceis ta osa perilambanei, opws kai oles oi ypoloipes. Den jerw ean sas kalyce h apanthsh moy. Endexomenws, kati allo qelete na rwthsete.

MELIGKWNHS: Nai. Sxetika me to qema ths metafrashs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Lete, giati egine grhgora mia metafrash kai oxi arga.

MELIGKWNHS: Oxi.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete oti exoyn allajei oi texnologies. Dhladh, ayth th stigmh, mporeite na bgeite sto emporio na milhsete se ena kompioyter kai na grafei ayta poy lete.

MELIGKWNHS: Nai, omws thn Paraskeyh, poy eixe 19 Oktwbrioy o mhnas, symfwna me thn... .

ROYSOPOYLOS: Katalaba ti lete.

MELIGKWNHS: Htan 15 Oktwbrioy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na mhn sas adikhsw, katalaba ti lete. H apanthsh poy exei doqei kai apo emena se ayth thn aiqoysa, opws allwste eixa ypoxrewsh na milhsw me ton armodio ypoyrgo, einai oti sto grafeio toy armodioy ypoyrgoy den eixe ftasei mexri ekeinh thn hmera.

TSIOYFOS: Na qesw ligo diaforetika thn erwthsh poy ekane prin o k. Kakalhs. H adynamia...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa me kathgorhsei meta gia epilektikh apanthsh, an apanthsw.

TSIOYFOS: Oxi. An apanthsete. H adynamia toy PASOK na askhsei drastika antipoliteysh, dhmioyrgei problhma sthn kybernhsh; Mhpws dhladh ola ayta ta opoia parakoloyqoyme, olo to teleytaio diasthma, me tis diaforopoihseis boyleytwn ths Neas Dhmokratias, ofeilontai kai sthn adynamia toy PASOK na askhsei antipoliteysh kai analambanoyn ekeinoi opws eipan kai oi idioi, mallon kapoioi apo aytoys, analambanoyn aytoi ayto to rolo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Deite se ti pagida qa mporoyse na pesei kapoios sth qesh moy, an apofasize na apanthsei sto erwthma sas. An elege oxi, qa apodexotan oti den yparxei adynamia. An elege nai, qa apodexotan oti yparxei adynamia. Egw, omws, se kamia periptwsh, den dikaioymai apo th qesh sthn opoia briskomai kai ws melos alloy kommatos na parw qesh gi` ayta ta opoia symbainoyn entos toy PASOK. Kata synepeia, to ean to PASOK askei to syntagmatika katoxyrwmeno rolo toy ws ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh, ayto einai kati gia to opoio parakalw na rwthsete ton ekproswpo Typoy toy PASOK.

TSIOYFOS: Den rwthsa ayto. Sygnwmh, eipa mhpws ayth h adynamia exei odhghsei stis diaforopoihseis twn dikwn sas boyleytwn, me thn ennoia oti to keno antipoliteyshs to kalyptoyn pleon ekeinoi.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den syndyazontai ta dyo qemata kai to gnwrizete.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: O Yfypoyrgos Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs k. Kiltidhs, eipe oti 1,5 ekatommyrio stremmata apo ta kamena den exoyn khryxqei anadaswtea kai oti den yparxoyn kai dendryllia. Ta armodia Ypoyrgeia, to PEXWDE kai to Eswterikwn den qa eprepe na exoyn piesei toys perifereiarxes, h en pash periptwsei opoion mpleketai se ayth thn istoria kai na exoyn proxwrhsei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epikoinwnhsa me ton k. Kiltidh kai me enhmerwse gia to ti eipe. Qa sas epanalabw, loipon, ayta ta opoia moy eipe: Yparxei problech oti entos trimhnoy einai syntagmatikh epitagh prepei na ginetai h khryjh ths anadaswshs se mia perioxh h opoia exei kaei. Se orismenes periptwseis, analoga me tis dyskolies, to trimhno ayto mporei na ginei pentamhno. Ayto, loipon, poy ekane o k. Kiltidhs, einai oti ypenqymise me egkyklio stoys perifereiarxes thn problech ayth. Dhladh, oti entos trimhnoy h entos pentamhnoy -analoga me tis antijoothtes poy mporei na parathrhqoyn se mia perioxh- prepei na exei ginei anadaswsh. Ara, ypenqymise mia ypoxrewsh toys. Kai to ypenqymise -peran toy oti exoyme syntagmatikh ypoxrewsh- kai giati epipleon o Prwqypoyrgos exei desmeytei kai h Nea Dhmokratia sthn proeklogikh periodo  kai to pisteyei allwste- oti opoy htan dasos qa janaginei dasos. Prwton, ayth h aplh ypomnhsh, loipon, me mia egkyklio, den shmainei tipote perissotero apo to oti ekane th doyleia toy. Deyteron, qa anarwthqeite eylogws giati enas perifereiarxhs endexomenws den exei proxwrhsei akoma. Yparxoyn tetoies periptwseis oi opoies ejhgoyntai: Prwton dioti den exei parelqei akomh to trimhno h to pentamhno kai xreiazetai na ginei mia seira apo diadikasies gia na mporesei na khryxqei mia perioxh anadaswtea. Kalon einai na eimaste grhgoroi, opws poly grhgora leitoyrghse to kratos sthn periptwsh ths Parnhqas. Yparxoyn, omws, kai orismenes periptwseis stis opoies den exei oloklhrwqei mia seira apo diadikasies. Pisteyw kai meta thn ypenqymish ayth poy ekane o k. Kiltidhs, oti qa oloklhrwqoyn aytes oi diadikasies entos twn syntagmatikwn oriwn. Se o,ti afora ta dendryllia, giati einai pragmatika endiaferon to qema kai shmantiko: Meta apo mia tetoia katastrofh giati oloi milhsame gia poly megalo eyros katastrofhs, kamia dasikh yphresia den qa mporoyse na einai etoimh. Na exei, dhladh, tis ekatontades xiliades, an oxi ekatommyria dendryllia. Omws kai edw exoyme mia seira apo parametroys, opws qymaste kai opws jerete, ta maqame oloi mas pia. Den einai kaqe perioxh opoy ginetai anadaswsh me th fyteysh dendrylliwn, giati mporei na ginei kai fysikh anadaswsh. Ara, den mporei kapoios na apofasisei na kanei anadaswsh twra se oles tis perioxes. Mia perioxh khryssetai anadaswtea. Ayto den shmainei kat` anagkh oti qa pame thn idia stigmh na fytecoyme kai dentra sthn perioxh ayth. Shmainei oti qa prepei na perimenoyme to xrono gia na doyme, analoga me to ti qa apofasisoyn oi armodioi  kai milaw gia episthmones, gewponoys, dasoponoys klp- gia to ti prepei na ginei se kaqe perioxh. Epishs, moy eipe na shmeiwsw kai nomizw oti qa to qewreite kai eseis idiaitera shmantiko, oti xreiazetai ola ayta ta dendryllia na einai prosarmosmena sth biopoikilothta toy ellhnikoy edafoys. En oligois na einai ellhnika fyta.

SPYRAKH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qa hqela na sas rwthsw, ean h ektimhsh sas einai oti koinoboyleytikh pleiochfia apoteloyn kai oi 151.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me rwtate na ermhneysw to Syntagma, se kati to opoio einai aytonohto oti ermhneyetai apo ton kaqenan ej ymwn. Allwste, exete tromerh empeiria. Mporeite na bgalete apanthsh apo monoi sas.

PALAIOLOGOS: An sas rwtoysa gia to periexomeno twn apocewn poy diatypwse xqes o boyleyths ths Neas Dhmokratias k. Tatoylhs, eimai bebaios oti qa moy apantoysate ``kanena sxolio''.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ara giati rwtate;

PALAIOLOGOS: Gi` ayto prospernaw thn erwthsh ayth kai sas lew ti qa ginei sthn periptwsh poy opws xqes afhse na ypainixqei o k. Tatoylhs qa katachfisei thn apofash ths kybernhshs na allajei ton eklogiko nomo epi to pleiochfikotero.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanena sxolio.

PALAIOLOGOS: Ara qa diagrafei, dhladh. Giati prokeitai gia ena kybernhtiko nomosxedio.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qelete apanthsh kai se ayto;

PALAIOLOGOS: Gi` ayto thn kanw thn erwthsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanena sxolio.

KAKALHS: Qa epanelqw sto qema ths katastrofhs twn daswn. Einai se qesh h kybernhsh meta apo 2  3 mhnes apo tis katastrofes na dwsei kapoies pio peistikes ejhghseis, giati to perasmeno kalokairi syntelesthke h megalyterh oikologikh katastrofh, h megalyterh katastrofh twn daswn apo ton 2o Pagkosmio Polemo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyn doqei para polla stoixeia. Profanws den sas exei ikanopoihsei kanena apo ayta.

KAKALHS: Eiste ikanopoihmenoi eseis apo ayta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kaneis den mporei na einai ikanopoihmenos apo opoiadhpote oikologikh katastrofh, toy opoioydhpote megeqoys. Poly perissotero enos megaloy megeqoys to opoio biwsame oloi mas.

KAKALHS: An yparxei kapoia allh ektimhsh pera apo ta (den akoygetai).

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyn doqei ermhneies. Den xreiazetai na pw kati perissotero.

KAKALHS: Me stoixeia ennow, apodeijeis.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kai me stoixeia exoyn doqei ermhneies.

N. PAPADHMHTRIOY: Kyrie Ypoyrge, qelw na sas rwthsw kai kati akomh apo ta osa eipe o k. Kiltidhs. Eipe, loipon, oti oi treis synarmodioi Ypoyrgoi gia th dasikh politikh  diabazw apo ta shmerina reportaz- PEXWDE, Eswterikwn kai Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs, symfwnoyn oti h shmerinh katastash einai aparadekth, alla den pairnoyn prwtoboylies antimetwpishs ths. Ti sas eipe ep` aytoy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw na eipe kati tetoio o k. Kiltidhs.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Kyrie Ypoyrge, dyo maqhtes sth Qessalonikh arnhqhkan na pane sthn parelash gia logoys syneidhshs. Oi dieyqyntes toys, toys apeilhsan me apobolh apo to sxoleio. Ayth einai h politikh ths kybernhshs sas se o,ti afora ta qemata ths Paideias; Giati mporei na einai kai parabiash twn anqrwpinwn dikaiwmatwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eixa erwthqei kai pro oligwn hmerwn apo ton k. Kyritsh kai den eixa dwsei apanthsh giati den gnwriza to qema. Sas eixa parapemcei sto Ypoyrgeio Paideias giati einai ejeidikeymeno qema. Den exw antirrhsh na rwthsw kai na dw an mporw na sas dwsw mia apanthsh ayrio. Alla, einai kalo, merika tetoia ejeidikeymena qemata na ta apeyqynoyme ws erwthmata sta armodia Ypoyrgeia.

RABANOS: Na jefygoyme ligo apo to qema twn diagrafwn kai na pame se pio oysiwdh qemata, poy aforoyn kai polles xiliades oikogeneies. To prohgoymeno Sabbato elhje h proqesmia gia thn enswmatwsh ths koinotikhs odhgias sthn ellhnikh nomoqesia peri ths anagnwrishs twn ptyxiwn, twn kollegiwn, twn pararthmatwn jenwn panepisthmiwn sthn Ellada. Protiqetai h kybernhsh amesa na enswmatwsei thn koinotikh odhgia; An nai, pote; Kai deyteron, an sas problhmatizoyn oi antidraseis poy yparxoyn sto xwro ths ekpaideytikhs koinothtas, opoy opws kai eseis poly kala qa jerete, ypoboskei mia krish kai etoimazontai kai panekpaideytika syllalhthria.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai idiaiterws shmantiko to qema poy rwtate. Qa moy epitrecete na rwthsw ton armodio Ypoyrgo kai qa sas exw mia apanthsh ayrio.

NASOPOYLOS: Se sxesh me to proswpiko toy Megaroy Majimoy, eipate  ean exw kala plhroforhqei- oti den afora osoys einai metaklhtoi ypallhloi, alla afora ypallhloys monimoys h aoristoy xronoy poy ergazontai ayth th stigmh sto Prwqypoyrgiko grafeio. H diatajh poy prowqeite leei oti to proswpiko ayto ``apospatai h metatassetai h metaferetai''. To ``apospatai h metatassetai'' einai dedomeno oti afora apospasmenoys h ypallhloys poy ontws exoyn mia organikh qesh hdh se kapoia dhmosia yphresia. To ``h metaferetai'', poioys afora;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Edwsa polles leptomereies prohgoymenws gia to qema ayto kai qa tis diabasete. Ekeino, omws, poy prepei na sas epanalabw einai oti o metaklhtos ypallhlos den apospatai, den metaferetai, den metatassetai. O metaklhtos ypallhlos phgainei me to proswpo ekeino to opoio apo thn prwth stigmh eklhqh na ``yphrethsei''. Ara, loipon, se kamia periptwsh metaklhtos ypallhlos den mporei na exei kapoia sxesh me ayto poy diabasa egw h poy eipate molis twra, opws den exei sxesh me monimopoihsh. Den monimopoieitai.

NASOPOYLOS: H skopimothta na pane sth Boylh h se mia sygkekrimenh Grammateia Ypoyrgeioy kai oxi olwn twn Grammateiwn h allwn yphresiwn toy Dhmosioy, ti ejyphretei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas elega, opws eipa kai prohgoymenws, symplhrwnontas ligo perissotero th skech, oti skopos twn en logw diatajewn htan na prostateyqei to ekastote proswpiko aoristoy xronoy h monimo proswpiko poy yphretei sth Genikh Grammateia ths kybernhshs h sto Politiko Grafeio toy Prwqypoyrgoy, apo tyxon dysmeneis metakinhseis, gia paradeigma, se periptwsh kybernhtikhs allaghs. Emeis giname kybernhsh kai den allajame ta proswpa. Ta idia proswpa poy eixan dioristei apo ton k. Shmith paremeinan sto Megaro Majimoy kai ayto mporeite na to diapistwsete. Einai mono gia thn prostasia twn proswpwn aytwn einai. Gi` ayto kai sygkekrimenes yphresies, sth Boylh h sto Ypoyrgeio Eswterikwn, einai poy problepontai.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Ara, ftaiei o Shmiths.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Egw sas eipa ti kaname emeis ws kybernhsh kai apodeiknyetai 3,5 xronia meta. Einai h deyterh qhteia poy kanoyme twra kai den exoyn diwxqei, anqrwpoi oi opoioi dioristhkan apo ton tote Prwqypoyrgo.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Kai mporei na leitoyrghsei to Prwqypoyrgiko grafeio, kyrie Ypoyrge, me anqrwpoys oi opoioi anhkoyn h dioristhkan apo allo komma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se orismenes qeseis, nai. Den einai mesa sto grafeio toy Prwqypoyrgoy, alla en pash periptwsei sto politiko grafeio toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Shmainei oti exoyn mia seira apo drasthriothtes poy mporoyn na tis askhsoyn. To briskw idiaiterws dhmokratiko, jerete. Makari na to eixe kanei kai h prohgoymenh kybernhsh epi xronia kai na leitoyrgoyse ayto to pragma. Kai elpizw ocepote oi Ellhnes polites apofasisoyn na exoyn allh kybernhsh na to akoloyqhsei ws paradeigma kai h epomenh kybernhsh.

KAKALHS: Ayto to ``ocepote'' ti shmainei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: ``Ocepote'', shmainei oti mporei na mas eklejoyn gia polles tetraeties akomh.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Kyrie Ypoyrge, epeidh egw meta bias plhrwnw to diko moy kinhto kai den protiqemai na plhrwsw kanenos Ellhna boyleyth, qa hqela na moy peite ean h kybernhsh sas, o k. Sioyfas, skopeyei na parei metra gia na plhrwqoyn ta 34 ekatommyria poy xrwstane oi Ellhnes boyleytes se kinhta, sta staqera toys thlefwna.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete  ki epeidh me jerete polla xronia- oti eimai enantion twn genikeysewn. Prwton, loipon, kaqe qema to opoio genikeyei kai dhmioyrgei mia aisqhsh gia oloys, eite einai boyleytes eite einai dhmosiografoi, emena me briskei apenanti. Deyteron, kai oysiodestero: Qa parakalesw na apeyqynqeite sth Boylh -gnwrizete poly kala oti einai diakrites oi ejoysies, diakritoi oi roloi- kai h Boylh qa sas dwsei apanthsh. Exw thn entypwsh omws oti exei hdh dwsei analytikh apanthsh o Proedros ths Boylhs.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Miso lepto: Ti paei na pei ayto, kyrie Ypoyrge; Dhladh, ths Neas Dhmokratias plhrwnoyn, toy PASOK den plhrwnoyn; Egw ayto den to katalabainw. Mporeite na eiste pio sygkekrimenos, oti den qelete na genikeyete; Den katalaba. Peite mas: H Nea Dhmokratia ta plhrwnei, to PASOK ta xrwstaei kai o SYNASPISMOS caxnei na ta brei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se o,ti afora to prwto, o kaqenas topoqeteitai sto xwro me tis symperifores toy. Epishs, parakalw apeyqynqeite sth Boylh gia na parete apanthsh gia to deytero.

NASOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, epeidh den qelw na yparjei paranohsh, kai epeidh einai dedomeno oti se mia yphresia, opws kai sto Prwqypoyrgiko grafeio, einai eite apospasmenoi ypallhloi apo alles yphresies eite ypallhloi poy exoyn metatagei apo alles yphresies eite metaklhtoi ki epeidh se mia diatajh nomoy ta rhmata den mpainoyn tyxaia kai exoyn th shmasia toys. Leei sygkekrimena: ``To proswpiko ayto apospatai'', ara afora toys apospasmenoys, ``metatassetai'', ara afora aytoys poy exoyn me metatajh paei ekei ``h metaferetai''. To ``metaferetai'' poioys afora; Egw den blepw na apomenoyn alloi pera apo toys metaklhtoys ypallhloys. Kai leei kai ``kata parekklish kaqe isxyoysas diatajhs''.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To ``kata parekklish'' na jerete oti xrhsimopoieitai se polles periptwseis, otan xreiazetai na ginei kati tetoio. Kai den ennow se periptwseis metaqesewn klp. Yparxoyn, as poyme, ``amoibes kata parekklish'' sto Dhmosio. En pash periptwsei exw dwsei mia analytikh apanthsh. Exw plhroforhqei apo ton idio ton k. Paylopoylo oti ayrio sthn Epitroph ths Boylhs qa dwsei oles tis leptomereies gia to qema. Kata synepeia, egw toylaxiston, den exw sth diaqesh moy kati perissotero na sas pw.

Sas eyxaristw.

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