Greek Government Press Briefing, 01-11-30

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 30 Noembrioy 2001

JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO XRHSTO PRWTOPAPA

Geia sas.

Th shmerinh mas enhmerwsh parakoloyqoyn oi spoydastes toy Tmhmatos Akoloyqwn Typoy ths Sxolhs Dhmosias Dioikhshs, poy oloklhrwsan thn praktikh toys sto ypoyrgeio Typoy. Toys kalwsorizoyme kai toys eyxomaste kaqe kalo sth stadiodromia toys.

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

MPOTWNHS: Akoysa tis dhlwseis twn ypeyqynwn ths DEH gia thn eisodo ths sto Xrhmatisthrio kai den katalabainw ayto poy lene oti qa ayjhqoyn treis fores epanw ta timologia ths DEH gia na ta eisprajoyme, mesw toy Xrhmatisthrioy. An den einai ejwpragmatikh ayth h dhlwsh, den jerw ti akribws einai, alla wstoso, yparxei ena megalo zhthma. Pws o Dioikhths ths DEH ekane aytes tis dhlwseis;

PRWTOPAPAS: Gia thn kybernhsh yparxei ena zhthma: H DEH prepei na anaptyxqei kai xreiazontai poroi gia thn anaptyjh ths, alla, bebaiws, se kaqe periptwsh, yparxei anagkh, toso gia thn prostasia toy katanalwth, oso kai toy koinwnikoy synoloy. Me ayto to pneyma topoqeteitai h kybernhsh apenanti sto qema twn timologiwn. Qa prepei na yparxei isorropia metajy twn anagkwn gia thn anaptyjh, thn epektash kai ton eksygxronismo mias dhmosias epixeirhshs, alla kai to sebasmo toy katanalwth kai thn koinwfelh drash yper toy polith. Opws katalabainete, den exoyn lhfqei apofaseis.

MPOTWNHS: Wstoso, mpainei h DEH sto Xrhmatisthrio, einai sxedon bebaio, ekane dhlwseis o Proedros ths DEH...

PRWTOPAPAS: Den exoyn lhfqei akomh oi apofaseis. Oxi, bebaiws, gia to an qa eisaxqei h DEH sto Xrhmatisthrio. H syzhthsh mas ginetai gia ta timologia, den ginetai gia thn eisagwgh sto Xrhmatisthrio.

KONTOPOYLOS: Ayto, omws, egine me bash...

PRWTOPAPAS: Eipa oti se kaqe periptwsh -ayth einai h kybernhtikh qesh- qa prepei na synejetazetai h kalych twn anagkwn ths epektashs, toy eksygxronismoy mias dhmosias epixeirhshs, terastias shmasias, opws einai h DEH me th leitoyrgia ths pros ofelos toy koinwnikoy synoloy. Einai ena meigma, to opoio prepei na apofasistei, mesa apo ayto to prisma.

MPOTWNHS: Dhladh, h DEH den to exei kanei ayto; Den to ekane xqes o Proedros ths DEH ayto; Einai ektos grammhs, dhladh;

PRWTOPAPAS: Sas eipa poia einai h qesh mas. Apo kei kai pera, ola ayta qa ejetastoyn kai qa lhfqoyn apofaseis. Den ejaggelqhke ayjhsh xqes.

KONTOPOYLOS: Mhpws, omws, h eisodos ths DEH sto Xrhmatisthrio, meiwsei th dynatothta parembashs ths kybernhshs; Dhladh, mhpws, h eisodos sto Xrhmatisthrio symparasyrei ayth th logikh kai isxysei h logikh oti efoson h epixeirhsh einai sto Xrhmatisthrio, leitoyrgei me alloys kanones kai alla krithria; Kai ayto isws ypagoreysei thn ayjhsh twn timologiwn;

PRWTOPAPAS: H epilogh ths kybernhshs gia thn eisodo ths DEH sto Xrhmatisthrio -poy einai aparaithth gia thn anaptyjh kai ton eksygxronismo ths- na ginei se ena pososto gyrw sto 15%, opws gnwrizete. Einai mia epilogh poy exei mia shmasia. Se kamia periptwsh den amfisbhteitai to kainoyrgio idiokthsiako kaqestws ths DEH, dhladh, o elegxos toy Dhmosioy. Bebaiws, h eisodos sto Xrhmatisthrio qa symballei idiaitera qetika sth leitoyrgia ths epixeirhshs, mesa se nees synqhkes antagwnismoy kai apeleyqerwshs ths agoras energeias. H agora energeias apeleyqerwnetai gia na mporei h DEH na antapokriqei, gia na mporei na kanei ependyseis -gia na exei xrhmata na kanei aytes tis ependyseis- epelegh h eisagwgh ths sto Xrhmatisthrio.

KONTOPOYLOS: Yparxoyn newtera stoixeia ypoch ths kybernhshs, gia to pws diefyge o Passarhs sth Roymania; Yparxoyn plhrofories poy anaferoyn oti bohqhqhke apo ychla istamenoys filoys toy k.lp. Epeidh yparxei ena megalo erwthmatiko sthn koinh gnwmh, exei h kybernhsh plhroforhqei apo tis armodies yphresies ta dika toys senaria, tis dikes toys ekdoxes kai yparxoyn stoixeia sta opoia sthrizontai aytes oi ekdoxes poy exoyn dwsei oi Yphresies Asfaleias;

PRWTOPAPAS: Qa synistoysa na perimenoyme na oloklhrwqei h anakrish. Bebaiws, ws gnwrizete, apo thn anakrish kai tis diadikasies poy qa akoloyqhsoyn, para polla pragmata qa elqoyn sto fws. Den einai dynaton ayth th stigmh na emplakoyme, ws kybernhsh, se ena dialogo me ton Passarh h na emplakoyme se parembaseis sto ergo twn anakritikwn arxwn.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, epeidh den giname sofoteroi xqes apo th syzhthsh sth Boylh, mporeite na mas peite giati den phge o Prwqypoyrgos sth synedriash kai giati h kybernhsh den aisqanetai thn anagkh na enhmerwsei epi twn pragmatikwn ``kathgoriwn'', poy diatypwnontai eis baros ths sto qema kai ths DEKA kai ths Eqnikhs kai allwn tetoiwn qematwn; Akoysame, bebaia, politikes korwnes ekaterwqen, alla o ellhnikos laos den emaqe tis leptomereies kai epanerxomai, gia na mhn kanw allh erwthsh kai sto qema toy kacimatos 100 metoxwn, ajias 150 dis draxmwn, sthn Eqnikh Trapeza.

PRWTOPAPAS: Exw apanthsei se polles apo tis erwthseis sas. To kainoyrgio stoixeio poy qelw na prosqesw einai oti o ellhnikos laos, kata th gnwmh moy, egine sofoteros xqes. Egine sofoteros kai gia ta pragmatika aitia ths proklhshs, ths protashs gia ejetastikh epitroph kai gia ta pragmatika gegonota, gyrw apo ta opoia estrafh h syzhthsh. Qa prosqesw, epishs, oti eide ton ypoyrgo Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn kai ton akoyse na ejaggellei nea metra gia thn prostasia ths leitoyrgias toy Xrhmatisthrioy kai bebaiws, kai thn prostasia twn ependytwn. Kai ayto einai, kata th gnwmh moy, ena kainoyrgio stoixeio, ena qetiko stoixeio poy prepei na shmeiwsoyme apo th xqesinh syzhthsh. O ypoyrgos Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn den perioristhke mono na apanthsei sta osa adikws isxyrizotan h pleyra ths N.D., alla proxwrhse kai ena bhma parapera. Edeije thn apofasistikothta mas, th qelhsh mas na qwrakisoyme to Xrhmatisthrio kai na mhn epitrepontai opoiesdhpote epembaseis sto mellon.

MPOTWNHS: Prin apo liges hmeres to qema twn laqrometanastwn sth Zakynqo htan prwto qema. Shmera, oxi mono den einai prwto, alla yparxei ena terastio problhma sto nhsi. Akoysa, xqes to Nomarxh na leei oti qa toys ferei sth Boylh na toys taizoyn oi boyleytes. Ti qa kanei h kybernhsh poy fainetai aytes tis hmeres na to exei jexasei;

PRWTOPAPAS: H kybernhsh den to exei jexasei. Pote h kybernhsh den mporei na jexasei ena qema 1000 anqrwpwn, oi opoioi efqasan se ayth thn katastash. Bebaiws, den ftaine oi idioi. Alla, eixa topoqethqei apo tote kai merikoi, isws jenisthkan gia thn tote topoqethsh moy gyrw apo thn pagia arxh mas gi ayta ta zhthmata. Qa frontisoyme, bebaiws, na deijoyme thn anqrwpistikh mas symbolh sto problhma twn laqrometanastwn. Toys exoyme periqalcei, toys exoyme frontisei, exei parasxeqei iatrikh frontida kai exoyn kalyfqei oi ameses anagkes toys. Htan mia ypoxrewsh mas. Ayto qa synexisoyme na to kanoyme, alla bebaiws, prepei na breqoyn kai oi oristikes lyseis gyrw apo to problhma. Qelw na jekaqarisw oti h Ellada einai xwra me megales eyaisqhsies, me megalh qelhsh gia bohqeia ston anqrwpo poy pasxei, alla se kamia periptwsh den einai mia xwra anoiktwn synorwn. Den mporei na ginei xwra anoiktwn synorwn.

I. KAMPOYRAKHS: Yphrje to apotelesma ths Enorkhs Dioikhtikhs Ejetashs gia ton ajiwmatiko toy Limenikoy, an den kanw laqos -mporei na mhn einai ajiwmatikos- me ekeino to epeisodio me ton laqrometanasth. H apofash, loipon, einai 30 hmeres periorismos, epeidh, opws leei h apofash, anexqhke na toy skoypisei ta papoytsia. Qa hqela to sxolio ths kybernhshs gi ayto.

PRWTOPAPAS: Den na parembainoyme stis anakriseis kai stis ereynes poy ginontai apo tis arxes asfaleias. Yphrje endelexhs ejetash toy Limenikoy Swmatos kai ekdoqhke porisma. Den exw logo na to amfisbhthsw. Ejalloy, ta stoixeia poy exoyn aytoi oi anqrwpoi einai poly perissotera apo ayta poy exoyme emeis. Gnwrizete oti me eyaisqhsia, toso o ypoyrgos Emporikhs Naytilias Giwrgos Anwmeriths, oso kai o Arxhgos toy Limenikoy Swmatos , apo thn prwth stigmh parenebhsan sto qema ayto, zhthsan kai apofasisan thn EDE. H EDE diejhxqh kalws kai ejedwse ena porisma. Den exw logo na to amfisbhtw.

I. KAMPOYRAKHS: Se allo qema. Xqes, mas eipate oti htan poly ikanopoihtikh h apofash ths E.E. gia to bambaki, se o,ti afora tis ellhnikes qeseis. Blepoyme, omws, oti ayth thn apoch den fainetai na thn exoyn oi Ellhnes paragwgoi. Qa hqela na jerw, ean yparxei sxedio antimetwpishs twn kinhtopoihsewn poy opws blepoyme briskontai pro twn pylwn.

PRWTOPAPAS: Pragmatika xairomai gia thn erwthsh sas, giati prokeitai gia ena poly megalo koinwniko zhthma. Den qeloyme na antimetwpizoyme tis kinhtopoihseis. Exw tonisei, kat epanalhch, oti ayto poy mas endiaferei einai h sxesh symporeyshs, opws exoyme tosa polla xronia, me toys agrotes kai me toys paragwgoys mas na antapokrinomaste kai na lynoyme ta problhmata toys. Na antapokrinomaste se ayto poy einai to ergo mas, na prowqoyme thn epilysh twn problhmatwn toy Ellhna agroth. Bebaiws, yphrje enas xeirismos apo to ypoyrgeio Gewrgias -exoyme anaferqei se ayto- poy odhghse se qetika apotelesmata me th symbolh toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai thn parembash toy ston armodio Epitropo k. Fisler. To apotelesma poy proekyce apo aytoys toys xeirismoys, oi opoioi pantote ginontai sto plaisio twn koinotikwn kanonismwn -den ginontai apo mhdeniko shmeio- einai idiaitera ikanopoihtiko. Opws exw tonisei, h telikh diamorfwsh ths timhs toy bambakioy, ana kilo, qa anelqei se poso poy qa kymanqei metajy 270 kai 286 draxmwn -ayto ejartatai apo thn poiothta ths inas- to opoio xarakthrizetai ws idiaitera ikanopoihtiko gia ton Ellhna bambakoparagwgo. Qelw na qymisw oti mono h persinh xronia htan kalyterh. Synhqws h timh toy bambakioy diamorfwnotan se poly xamhlotero epipedo. Twra, qa petyxoyme mia pragmatika ikanopoihtikh timh. Kai ayth einai apotelesma mias prospaqeias poy katebale h ellhnikh kybernhsh, sto plaisio ths KAP kai toy kanonismoy ths E.E.

Epishs, qelw na tonisw oti h prokatabolh poy pairnoyn oi Ellhnes agrotes, ayth th stigmh, kai h timh poy diamorfwnei o antagwnismos den einai h telikh. Qa yparjei kai ena prosqeto poso, to opoio qa doqei apo thn ekkaqarish. Etsi, qa diamorfwqei stis 270 me 286 draxmes. Qa prepei na prosqesoyme kai ena poso apo thn epistrofh toy FPA kai toy petrelaioy, opoy qa exoyme ws apotelesma thn telikh timh, ana kilo, poy qa diamorfwqei peripoy kai analoga me thn poiothta, stis 300 draxmes, timh poy qewreitai idiaitera shmantikh. Pisteyoyme oti ayth h prospaqeia odhghse se ikanopoihtika apotelesmata kai ektimoyme -kai ayth einai h apoch mas- oti qa prepei na ginei qetika apodekth apo ton Ellhna agroth.

Bebaiws, qelw na epishmanw kai kati allo: Den yparxei dynatothta allaghs aytwn twn dedomenwn. Leitoyrgoyme mesa se mia koinh agrotikh politikh. Leitoyrgoyme se ena plaisio kanonismwn poy exei chfisei h E.E. Se ayto to plaisio twn kanonismwn doqhke h maxh mas, h opoia efere ikanopoihtika apotelesmata. Ayta ta apotelesmata einai telika. Den mporei na allajoyn. Kai me ayth thn ennoia, to kalytero poy exoyme na kanoyme einai na syzhthsoyme gia th synexeia ths koinhs mas prospaqeias, me toys ekproswpoys twn agrotwn.

FILHS: Den katalaba poies einai oi lyseis poy telikws, meta apo toso xroniko diasthma exei proteinei h kybernhsh gia thn antimetwpish twn problhmatwn twn prosfygwn kai metanastwn, oi opoioi filojenoyntai shmera apo toys katoikoys sth Zakynqo; Tote miloysate gia diaspora. Ayth einai h lysh; Epishs, milhsate gia epanaprowqhsh, ayth einai lysh; Milhsate gia politiko asylo. Poses aithseis gia politiko asylo exoyn katateqei;

PRWTOPAPAS: Qa melethsoyme oles aytes tis parametroys. Gnwrizete oti yparxoyn proqesmies poy prepei na ejantlhqoyn. Se kamia periptwsh den allazoyme th qesh mas gia toys pragmatika prosfyges. To epishmainw giati thn prohgoymenh fora dhmioyrghqhkan kapoia erwthmata. Qelw kathgorhmatika na bebaiwsw oti h qesh mas gia toys politikoys prosfyges den exei allajei, oyte qa allajei. Einai safes oti prosferame th bohqeia poy htan anagkaia, staqhkame ws anqrwpoi apenanti se anqrwpoys poy eixan thn anagkh mas. Deijame thn ennoia enos kratoys me eyaisqhsies kai mias koinwnias me eyaisqhsies. Qelw, omws, na sas ypenqymisw oti den eimaste mia xwra anoiktwn synorwn. Kai pros ayth thn kateyqynsh qa yparjoyn kai kapoies apofaseis.

FILHS: Egw rwtw sygkekrimena ki eseis moy apantate monotona, rhtorika. Den eimaste xwra anoiktwn synorwn, malista. Sas rwtw ti qa kanete sygkekrimena gi aytoys toys anqrwpoys. Poia metra qa labete, meta apo ena mhna, poy aytoi oi anqrwpoi briskontai sth Zakynqo;

PRWTOPAPAS: Gnwrizete oti exoyme ypogracei mia symfwnia "epanaprowqhshs" me thn Toyrkia. Qa ejetastei kai ayto to qema, alla den exoyn lhfqei, mexri ayth th stigmh, oi telikes apofaseis. Apo th stigmh, loipon poy den exoyn lhfqei oi telikes apofaseis, einai safes oti den mporw na desmeysw mia ejetash, h opoia diejagetai ayth th stigmh. Bebaiws, opoies aithseis katateqoyn kai tekmhriwnetai h idiothta toy politikoy prosfyga, qa ejetastoyn.

FILHS: Yparxei mia kataggelia ths organwshs ``Dieqnhs Amnhstia'', symfwna me thn opoia oi ellhnikes Limenikes Arxes epanaprowqhsan apo qalasshs merikes ekatontades nomizw oikonomikoys kai politikoys, ap o,ti fainetai, prosfyges poy htan se ploiaria, sto Aigaio. To erwthma einai, ean qa synexisei na epanaprowqei apo qalasshs toys laqrometanastes, opws toys qewrei h Ellada, sto Aigaio, dioti ayth h praktikh parabiazei th dieqnh symbash ths Geneyhs gia ta dikaiwmata twn politikwn prosfygwn, den dinei th dynatothta se anqrwpoys poy mporei na exoyn logoys na zhthsoyn politiko asylo, na ypobaloyn aithsh politikoy asyloy sth xwra mas.

PRWTOPAPAS: Pragmati, eginan se orismenes periptwseis prowqhseis laqrometanastwn. Efarmosthke h Symfwnia poy exoyme kanei me thn Toyrkia. Einai fysiko, otan analambanontai kapoies ypoxrewseis metajy dyo xwrwn gia toys laqrometanastes, aytes oi ypoxrewseis na efarmozontai. Kai nomizw oti kalws eginan.

FILHS: Sygnwmh poy rwtw, edw yparxei, ap o,ti kataggelletai kai apo th logikh prokyptei, parabiash ennomwn symferontwn ths ellhnikhs ennomhs tajhs. Otan syllambaneis kapoion sth qalassa kai ton stelneis pisw, den toy dineis th dynatothta na ypobalei aithma kai na ejetastei, ean epiqymei na zhthsei politiko asylo.

PRWTOPAPAS: Epanaprowqhqhkan laqrometanastes.

FILHS: Poy to jerete eseis ayto; Afoy yparxoyn sygkekrimenes kataggelies apo th Dieqnh Amnhstia, oti metajy aytwn symperilambanontan kai anqrwpoi poy qa zhtoysan politiko asylo.

PRWTOPAPAS: H apoch twn ellhnikwn arxwn einai oti epanaprowqhqhkan laqrometanastes. Apo kei kai pera, o,ti sygkekrimeno eipwqei, qa to ejetasoyme.

FILHS: H ellhnikh kybernhsh qewrei ws asfalh xwra gia thn epanaprowqhsh tritwn, dhladh oxi Toyrkwn politwn, thn Toyrkia;

PRWTOPAPAS: Exoyme ypogracei mia symfwnia gia to qema ths epanaprowqhshs laqrometanastwn. Ayth h symfwnia threitai. Ean eixame thn entypwsh oti h geitonikh xwra einai epikindynh, qa to eixame pei. Den yparxei tetoia entypwsh, oyte se kamia periptwsh, kati tetoio se sxesh me tritoys mporei na tekmhriwqei.

FILHS: Gnwrizete oti metajy twn anqrwpwn poy ayth th stigmh periqalpontai sth Zakynqo einai kai treis-tesseris politikoi kratoymenoi ths Toyrkias poy eixan kanei apergia peinas kai synepws qeloyn na zhthsoyn politiko asylo;

PRWTOPAPAS: Eipa oti den qa empodisoyme kanenan apo osoys briskontai sth xwra mas, na zhthsei politiko asylo. Ean to dikaioytai, symfwna me toys dieqneis kanonismoys, qa toy doqei.

FILHS: O k. Papantwnioy, xqes, sth Boylh eipe oti orismenoi dikastes kinhqhkan pros yperaspish kai se synergasia me th N.D. gia to qema toy Xrhmatisthrioy. Qa hqela na rwthsw, ean o Prwqypoyrgos zhthsei sygkekrimenes plhrofories gia na proxwrhsei se ereyna h kybernhsh gyrw apo ayto to qema, dhladh, twn kommatikwn dikastwn ths N.D. h ean qewreitai oti htan mia apostrofh toy logoy toy k. Papantwnioy sth Boylh, h opoia dikaiologeitai epeidh akribws htan kathgoroymenos, kata kapoion tropo xqes, kai ara o kathgoroymenos sthn apologia toy mporei na leei o,ti qelei eleyqerws.

PRWTOPAPAS: Kat arxhn, den htan kathgoroymenos o k. Papantwnioy, xqes, dioti den zhthqhke proanakritikh epitroph. Einai xarakthristiko toy poso ewla htan ta epixeirhmata ths N.D., oti den zhthsan proanakritikh epitroph, alla ejetastikh epitroph. Opws gnwrizete, h ejetastikh epitroph den exei topoqethsh epi proswpwn, exei topoqethsh mono epi gegonotwn. Zhtas na ginei mia epitroph gia na ejetasei kati. Den yphrxe kathgoria se proswpa. Ara, apo th stigmh poy den yphrxe tetoia kathgoria, o k. Papantwnioy den htan kathgoroymenos kai ayto prepei na to prosejoyme idiaiterws. O k. Papantwnioy anaferqhke se orismena qemata. Qelw na qymisw oti sto parelqon eixe ginei megalh syzhthsh kai yphrxan kai dhlwseis toy tote kybernhtikoy ekproswpoy, stis opoies sas parapempw.

FILHS: Ereyna ginetai gi ayto to qema;

PRWTOPAPAS: Sas eipa, oti sas parapempw stis tote dhlwseis toy k. Reppa.

GIANNAKA: Sto prohgoymeno qema gia to agrotiko: Xarakthrisate idiaitera ikanopoihtikh thn timh gia to bambaki. Qa hqela na moy peite pws ejhgeite to gegonos oti oi agrotes exoyn apofasisei na synexisoyn tis kinhtopoihseis toys kai ean pisteyete oti pisw apo tis agrotikes kinhtopoihseis blepete kapoia kommata, th N.D. h to KKE. Diabazw shmera se prwinh efhmerida oti gia to agrotiko h kybernhsh, anti na lysei to problhma, politikopoiei tis kinhtopoihseis. Ti apantate;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den mporw na ermhneysw to giati oi enwseis twn agrotwn h oi syndikalistikoi toys ekproswpoi ekfrazoyn mia diaforetikh apoch. Den mporw na ermhneysw oyte to aitio. Profanws oi anqrwpoi kati qa foboyntai h kapoia allh apoch qa exoyn h en pash periptwsei kati qa qeloyn na poyn. Syzhtame anoikta mazi toys. Toys enhmerwnoyme kai den qa stamathsoyme na toys enhmerwnoyme gyrw apo tis ejelijeis. Ayto poy qelw na toys pw kai shmera einai oti h timh poy diamorfwnetai sto bambaki meta tis energeies ths kybernhshs, einai idiaitera ikanopoihtikh. Yphrje ena qetiko apotelesma apo thn prospaqeia mas, ajiopoihsame th fwnh toys, ajiopoihsame th diekdikhtikothta toys kai thn apofasistikothta toys mesa sta organa ths E.E. kai petyxame ena kalytero apotelesma. Qeloyme na toys poyme oti ayto to apotelesma den allazei. Epomenws, ekeino poy xreiazetai einai na synexisoyme to dialogo, na synexisoyme thn koinh prospaqeia gia qemata poy aforoyn to mellon, thn antagwnistikothta ths gewrgias mas, gia qemata poy aforoyn genikoteres prwtoboylies tonwshs ths. Eimaste anoiktoi panta mazi toys. Den kathgorhsame aytoys poy kinhtopoioyntai. Kai den einai proqesh mas na toys kathgorhsoyme. Qeloyme to dialogo me ton agrotiko kosmo. Bebaiws, exw pei -kai den qa stamathsw na to lew- oti yparxoyn kai kapoia kommata poy prospaqoyn na ekmetalleyqoyn aytes tis kinhtopoihseis kai aytes tis anagkes. Kai prospaqoyn na to ekmetalleytoyn xwris na prosferoyn lyseis, apla kai mono me fwnes, bermpalismoys kai synqhmata poy den odhgoyn poyqena. Emeis prosferoyme lyseis.

MPOTWNHS: Yioqetei h kybernhsh th dhlwsh toy k. Papantwnioy oti mesa sto porisma toy eisaggelea yphrxan anohsies kai anakribeies;

PRWTOPAPAS: Exw, hdh, apanthsei gia thn oysia toy qematos, giati den qelw na stekomaste panta se apostrofes mias omilias h mias synenteyjhs. Qewrw oti den mporeis na kobeis mia-dyo lejeis gia na bgaleis kapoio symperasma. Prepei na diabaseis h na deis oloklhro to keimeno. Gia thn oysia toy problhmatos poy qetete, sas parapempw stis palaioteres dhlwseis poy exoyn ginei apo ayto to bhma.

MPOTWNHS: Eite memonwmena, eite opws to lete, h anohsia einai anohsia. Gia toys dikastes einai sklhrh dhlwsh.

PRWTOPAPAS: Exoyme ejantlhsei to qema.

FILHS: To qema einai an eseis nomimopoieiste na sxoliazete omilies sth Boylh kai thn koinoboyleytikh diadikasia.

PRWTOPAPAS: Opws blepete eimai poly prosektikos. Epeidh, omws, prokeitai gia ypoyrgo poy metexei sthn kybernhsh kai oxi gia topoqethsh boyleyth, me ayth thn ennoia, epektaqhka se ena qema poy, oytws h allws, exei qesei o kybernhtikos ekproswpos palaiotera, o opoios ws qesmos den allazei. Yparxei synexeia sth diadikasia ayth toy kybernhtikoy ekproswpoy. Allazei mono to proswpo. Gi` ayto, sas parepemca se palaioteres dhlwseis toy prwhn kybernhtikoy ekproswpoy kai shmerinoy ypoyrgoy Ergasias Dhmhtrh Reppa, oi opoies apantoyn sto qema.

KOYTANTOY: Hqela na rwthsw, ean h ellhnikh kybernhsh exei labei kapoia epistolh ths Proedroy toy Eyrwpaikoy Koinoboylioy k. Fonten gia toys allodapoys kratoymenoys kai poia einai h antidrash ths se ayth thn epistolh.

PRWTOPAPAS: Yparxei pragmati dieqnhs kinhtopoihsh gia thn kathgoria poy apeyqynan oi armodies ellhnikes eisaggelikes arxes, peri kataskopias, ston Ollando kai toys Aggloys kratoymenoys. Exoyme ginei koinwnoi pollwn keimenwn, parembasewn, thlefwnhmatwn apo arxes kyriws toy Hnwmenoy Basileioy, alla gnwrizoyme oti ayto to qema exei parei kai mia sxetikh ektash. Ejalloy, exoyme synexh epikoinwnia kai me ton ekproswpo Typoy sthn ellhnikh presbeia toy Londinoy poy mas enhmerwnei kaqhmerinws. Apo ekei kai pera, epanalambanw oti yparxei h diakrish twn ejoysiwn sto Syntagma mas, thn opoia sebomaste apolytws. Oi eisaggelikes kai anakritikes arxes einai anejarthtes. Den yparxoyn kai den mporoyn na yparjoyn parembaseis. Qesame ypoch toys ola ta stoixeia -parapempw stis xqesines dhlwseis toy ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn G. Papandreoy- ta opoia epikaleitai kai h agglikh pleyra. Gnwrizete oti exoyme endiaferqei gi` aytoys. Exei yparjei episkech kalhs qelhshs antiproswpeias toy ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn, se ychlo epipedo. Mexri ekei mporoyme na paremboyme. Qeloyme na elpizoyme oti, mesa apo thn epitaxynsh twn diadikasiwn poy problepei o poinikos kwdikas, qa yparxei mia oristikh lysh toy qematos.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: H dhlwsh toy ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn oti elpizei oti oi dikastikes arxes qa laboyn ypoch toys to xompi twn anqrwpwn aytwn, den synista parembash, kat` esas;

PRWTOPAPAS: Se kamia periptwsh den synista parembash. O ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn G. Papandreoy exei idiaiterh eyaisqhsia sto qema twn dimerwn sxesewn -kai ayto einai apolyta fysiologiko kai katanohto- kai ekrine skopimo na qesei ypoch -opws tiqentai ypoch ola ta stoixeia- kai ena prosqeto stoixeio poy piqanon den htan gnwsto sto eswteriko ths xwras mas.

MOYRTZHS: Diabazw, shmera, mia dhlwsh poy sas afora proswpika, oti eginan h qa ginoyn allages sth dioikhsh ths ERT. To erwthma moy einai, an eginan h qa ginoyn, an to neo proswpo einai proswpikh epilogh sas kai an ola ayta exoyn th sygkataqesh toy Proedroy kai toy D.S. ths ERT.

PRWTOPAPAS: Eida kai egw kapoia dhmosieymata gia to qema ayto, ta opoia den einai swsta. Isws na yphrje lanqasmenh plhroforhsh, epeidh den ekdoqhke epishmh anakoinwsh. Den prokeitai gia allages, alla gia efarmogh toy neoy organogrammatos. Efarmozetai ena neo organogramma poy einai apofasismeno edw kai arketo kairo, symfwna me to opoio yparxoyn pente kenes qeseis genikwn dieyqyntwn pros plhrwsh poy prepei na dioristoyn apo to D.S. ths ERT. Einai logiko, loipon, na synelqei to D.S. ths ERT gia na plhrwsei tis pente kenes qeseis.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Pote proekyce ayto to organogramma;

PRWTOPAPAS: Edw kai poly kairo.

FILHS: Paraithqhke h den paraithqhke h k. Alejakh;

PRWTOPAPAS: Oydeis paraithqhke.

FILHS: Einai sth qesh ths h k. Alejakh;

PRWTOPAPAS: Mesa se liges hmeres qa synedriasoyn ta organa ths ERT, dhladh to D.S., gia na plhrwsei pente qeseis genikwn dieyqyntwn poy problepontai apo thn efarmogh toy neoy organogrammatos. Allazei to organogramma ths ERT. Gnwrizete oti palia yphrxan dieyqyntes se kaqe dieyqynsh (kanalia, staqmoys), enw twra den yparxei ayto. Twra, yparxoyn pente genikes dieyqynseis. Enhmerwtikwn Ekpompwn kai Eidhsewn, Programmatos ths Thleorashs, Radiofwnoy, Oikonomikwn kai Dioikhtikwn Yphresiwn kai Texnikwn Yphresiwn poy exei kai tis sygxrones texnologikes efarmoges. Ayto to kainoyrgio organogramma poy exei apofasistei edw kai arketo kairo, hrqe h wra na efarmostei. Epomenws, prepei na synedriasoyn ta organa ths ERT gia na plhrwsoyn pente kenes qeseis. Den paraithqhke kaneis.

FILHS: To erwthma einai: Yparxei shmera antistoixia apo thn prwth Genikh Dieyqynsh...

PRWTOPAPAS: Oxi, den yparxei tetoia antistoixia.

FILHS: Ara, h k. Alejakh den paraiteitai lete, aplws mporei na antikatastaqei.

PRWTOPAPAS: Gia thn akribeia, allazoyn oi qeseis.

FILHS: Katargeitai h qesh poy einai h k. Alejakh;

PRWTOPAPAS: As poyme oti metatrepetai. Allazei to organogramma se mia teleiws nea bash.

FILHS: Ara, einai ypo krish h k. Alejakh;

PRWTOPAPAS: Oloi einai ypo krish, alla oxi mono oi ypallhloi ths ERT. Opws gnwrizete, se aytes tis periptwseis problepetai -opws exei ginei polles fores mexri twra- oti to D.S. mporei na apofasisei na topoqethsei opoiondhpote plhroi tis sxetikes proypoqeseis kai exei thn ikanothta na analabei ena antikeimeno. Den prokeitai gia kati ejw apo ton Kanonismo kai to organogramma.

MOYRTZHS: Qa epanegkriqei o Proedros ths ERT, epeidh teleiwnei h symbash toy;

PRWTOPAPAS: O Proedros ths ERT Panagiwths Panagiwtoy, poy exei mia poly epityxhmenh qhteia, oloklhrwnei th qhteia toy to Martio toy 2002 kai apo ekei kai pera einai sth dikh toy eyxereia gia to an qa qesei ek neoy ypochfiothta h oxi. Ws kybernhsh qewroyme oti o k. Panagiwtoy exei symbalei qetika sthn anabaqmish ths Ellhnikhs Radiofwnias kai Thleorashs kai exei prosferei ena ploysio ergo. Epanalambanw oti einai sth dikh toy diakritikh eyxereia an qesei ypochfiothta h oxi ton epomeno Martio poy lhgei h qhteia toy.

KACIWTHS: Aytes oi allages sto organogramma, proypoqetoyn tis paraithseis twn melwn toy D.S.; Exete steilei epistoles poy toys kaleite na ypobaloyn tis paraithseis toys;

PRWTOPAPAS: To mono poy zhthsa kai malista thlefwnikws apo ton Proedreyonta -giati den yphrxe Proedros- ths ET-3, einai na mas dieykolynei gia thn epanasystash ths Dioikhtikhs Epitrophs ths, me to na mas dwsoyn tis paraithseis toys ta melh ths. Dioti yphrxe mia 5melhs epitroph poy symfwna me to nomo exei thn typikh eyqynh ths ET-3 -dioti to oysiastiko ergo opws gnwrizete askei o Genikos Dieyqynths Dhmhtrhs Katsantwnhs- kai h opoia apoteleitai apo ton Proedro kai tessera melh. Epeidh den yphrxe Proedros -kai giati syntajiodothqhke enas symboylos kai epeidh yphrxan kai diafora leitoyrgika problhmata- me th symfwnh gnwmh toy k. Katsantwnh kai toy k. Panagiwtoy zhthsa na mas dieykolynoyn, qetontas sth diaqesh mas tis paraithseis toys. Ayto egine. Kai bebaiws, meta apo synennohsh poy qa ginei pali me ton k. Panagiwtoy, qa yparjei diorismos ths neas 5meloys epitrophs, opoy qa lhfqei ypoch -ayto me dikh mas prwtoboylia, giati den problepetai apo to nomo- na yparxei enas poy qa exei ypodeixqei apo thn ESHEMQ kai enas poy qa exei ypodeixqei apo toys ergazomenoys. Na sas dwsw kai thn plhroforia, oti to erxomeno Sabbato (8 Dekembrioy) qa exw thn eykairia na episkefqw thn ET-3 kai oloys toys foreis poy syndeontai me to ypoyrgeio sth Qessalonikh. Epishs, qa episkefqw thn Enwsh Syntaktwn Qessalonikhs, wste na exoyme mia epoikodomhtikh syzhthsh. Sto plaisio ayto qa prwtotyphsoyme, kanontas kai mia enhmerwsh twn politikwn syntaktwn ths Qessalonikhs.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Anejarthtws aytwn twn diadikastikwn energeiwn, dwsate entolh sthn ERT na probalei to kybernhtiko ergo; Giati oi plhrofories lene oti o Prwqypoyrgos den einai eyxaristhmenos apo thn probolh toy kybernhtikoy ergoy apo ta kratika kanalia.

PRWTOPAPAS: Oydepote exei pei o Prwqypoyrgos se mena h se allon ypoyrgo tetoio pragma. Oydepote yphrje parembash gia to pws proballetai to kybernhtiko ergo. Bebaiws, parakoloyqw apo poly stena ton tropo me ton opoio leitoyrgei h ERT, giati exw thn politikh eyqynh ths kai ayto einai apolytws fysiologiko. Alla me poia logikh; Me th logikh ths anabaqmishs toy ergoy ths, me th logikh ths poiothtas twn ekpompwn ths, me th logikh ths antikeimenikothtas, ths amesothtas kai ths antapokrishs twn eidhseografikwn programmatwn ths stis anagkes ths ellhnikhs koinwnias. Kai bebaia me ises eykairies gia ola ta kommata.

GARGALAKOS: Xqes, kophke ston aera mia ekpomph toy k. Triantafyllopoyloy ston ALPHA. Yparxoyn shmerina dhmosieymata poy eikazoyn kybernhtikh parembash gia to kocimo ths ekpomphs. Qa hqela to sxolio sas.

PRWTOPAPAS: Den yphrje kybernhtikh parembash se ayto to qema kai den htan dynato na yparjei. Qa moy epitrecete na mh sxoliasw peraiterw kapoia zhthmata poy aforoyn eswterika qemata enos radiothleoptikoy mesoy. Qa htan anepitrepto na to kanw.

FILHS: An yphrxe, qa to legate;

PRWTOPAPAS: Sas prolaba, tonizontas oti den htan dynato na yparjei.

FILHS: Gia allo qema. Exete dromologhsei kapoia diadikasia sxetika me tis allages poy prokyptoyn apo to Syntagma ws pros thn idiokthsia h kai alla qemata twn MME;

PRWTOPAPAS: Pragmati, exw steilei epistolh stoys proedroys olwn twn koinoboyleytikwn kommatwn, me thn opoia toys zhtw na moy orisoyn kapoion ekproswpo toys, prokeimenoy na syzhthsoyme to periexomeno aytwn twn allagwn. Sygkekrimena, prokyptei apo to arqro 14 kai 15 toy Syntagmatos h anagkh dyo megalwn parembasewn kai qa fanoyme synepeis se ayth thn ypoxrewsh mas. H prwth megalh parembash, afora qemata sxesewn Typoy kai oikonomias, idiokthsias Typoy kai idiokthth epixeirhsewn. Kai h deyterh parembash, afora kanones leitoyrgias twn radiothleoptikwn meswn, idiaitera kata thn proeklogikh periodo. Kai stis dyo periptwseis -sth mia apo monoi mas kai sthn allh se synergasia me to ypoyrgeio Eswterikwn, Dhmosias Dioikhshs kai Apokentrwshs- einai safes oti qa prepei na proxwrhsoyme se aytes tis dyo parembaseis. Ayto poy qelw na tonisw einai oti aytes oi parembaseis qa prepei na exoyn diaxroniko xarakthra. Qa prepei na mhn allazoyn kai na mhn amfisbhtoyntai me tis allages twn kybernhsewn. Qa prepei, kata to dynaton panta, na exoyn brei symfwno olo ton politiko kosmo, na einai eyrytera apodektes apo thn ellhnikh koinwnia. Me ayth thn ennoia, qeloyme na yparjei enas ploysios, endelexhs dialogos, prin fqasoyme sto Koinoboylio. Gia na to petyxoyme ayto, zhthsa apo toys arxhgoys twn kommatwn na mas ypodeijoyn toys ekproswpoys toys gia na jekinhsei o sxetikos dialogos.

FILHS: Qelw na rwthsw, ean stis proqeseis toy ypoyrgeioy einai na epektaqei o dialogos kai se alla qemata poy aforoyn to isxyon nomoqetiko plaisio.

PRWTOPAPAS: Den exoyme thn proqesh na dhmioyrghsoyme eyryteres parembaseis, alla, gia paradeigma, yparxei ena qema poy mas apasxolei kai to opoio mas to exei qesei h ESHEA. Exei na kanei me to qema twn agwgwn gia sykofantikh dysfhmish. Ola ta qemata poy mas tiqentai kai apo thn ESHEA, alla kai apo ta politika kommata, prepei na ta ejetasoyme. Den mporei na eimaste ej orismoy arnhtikoi se otidhpote. Den exoyme epishmanei allo qema, ayth th stigmh. An, omws, mas teqoyn alla zhthmata kai endiaferoyses protaseis apo ta politika kommata, den qa eimaste kaqetoi. Otidhpote to ejetazoyme. H idia h zwh mas ypoxrewnei na antapokrinomaste se problhmata. Me eyxaristhsh qa dexqoyme tis protaseis toys.

FILHS: H diadikasia poy afora thn allagh toy Kanonismoy ths Boylhs, wste na yparjei allagh sth synqesh toy ESR se poio stadio brisketai;

PRWTOPAPAS: Einai kai ayto ena poly sobaro qema. Exw epikoinwnhsei me ton Proedro ths Boylhs k. Kaklamanh, o opoios me exei enhmerwsei oti proxwroyn me gorgo ryqmo oi diadikasies ths allaghs toy Kanonismoy ths Boylhs. Amesws meta thn allagh toy, qa yparjei h kinhsh ths diadikasias gia to diorismo toy neoy ESR. Xairomai, dioti me thn efarmogh toy Syntagmatos poy chfisame prosfata sth Boylh kai toy nomoy, to neo ESR den qa ejartatai apo to ypoyrgeio Typoy kai MME, oyte qa diorizetai apo thn kybernhsh. Qa diorizetai mesa apo thn epilogh toy Koinoboylioy dia ths diaskechs twn Proedrwn. Opws jerete, h pleiochfia poy epiballei to Syntagma, den epitrepei se kanena komma apo mono toy na kanei ayto to diorismo. Einai, loipon, safes oti qa anazhthqoyn kai qa breqoyn eyryteres synaineseis. Einai safes oti qa exoyme ena neo ESR, plhrws apallagmeno apo opoiadhpote morfh kratikhs parembashs, to opoio qa mporesei na kanei th doyleia toy, mesa stoys kanones bebaiws poy tiqentai apo thn Politeia, kata ton kalytero tropo. Qa diasfalisei thn antikeimenikothta, thn ajiokratia kai th swsth leitoyrgia twn MME. Apo ekei kai pera, qelw na epishmanw oti kai to shmerino ESR kanei th doyleia toy poy einai idiaitera sebasth. Se ligh wra, qa exw thn eykairia na episkefqw ta grafeia toy kai na synanthqw me ton Proedro kai to D.S. toy ESR. Bebaiws, kai aytoi prospaqoyn kai xreiazetai na symbaloyme oloi se aytes tis prospaqeies.

FILHS: Afoy h anejarthsia toy ESR einai mia qetikh energeia, gia poio logo den proxwreite sthn anejarthsia kai ths Epitrophs kefalaiagoras poy zhteite apo diafores pleyres;

PRWTOPAPAS: Sto qema ayto, h ypoxrewsh ths kybernhshs einai na qwrakisei thn Epitroph Kefalaiagoras kai na epiballei kanones poy na sebontai to leitoyrghma ths kai thn anejarthsia toy ergoy ths.

Sas eyxaristw.

Kalo Sabbatokyriako.

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