BRIEFING 03-05-96

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://web.ariadne-t.gr/> - email: pegasus@compulink.gr

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY KAI MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS 3/5/96

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY KAI MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO k. DHMHTRH REPPA

* Shmera - ypenqymizw - einai h Pagkosmia Hmera ths Eleyqerias toy Typoy. Eortazoyme oloi, ypo mia ennoia. Giati h eleyqeria toy Typoy einai synwnymh me th Dhmokratia. Kai qa elega oti apotelei enan apo toys asfalesteroys deiktes gia th leitoyrgia twn dhmokratikwn qesmwn. Pisteyw - qa moy epitrecete na pw - oti eseis eisqe idiaitera tyxeroi poy eisqe dhmosiografoi sthn Ellada, opoy h eleyqeria toy Typoy anqei. Qewrw, en ocei kai twn megalwn problhmatwn gia ta opoia den einai wra na milhsoyme, einai hmera giorths, problhmatwn ta opoia yparxoyn sta mesa enhmerwshs, oti emeis oloi, apo opoia pleyra toy "lofoy" kai an briskomaste, exoyme ypoxrewsh na anaptyjoyme thn proswpikh mas eyqynh, wste na yparjei armonia s' ayto to xwro kai isorropies armonikes oi opoies se megalo baqmo shmera, den yparxoyn. Mporoyme na mpoyme kat' eyqeian sth syzhthsh mas, afoy qewrhsete dedomeno oti h symparastash mas yparxei kai qa yparxei. Kai qewroyme pws o Typos sthn Ellada stekei se ychlo epipedo. Makari na ftasei sto epipedo to opoio qa qelame oloi na brisketai h koinwnia mas, sto synolo ths.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Sxetika me to dhmosieyma ths ELEYQEROTYPIAS gia metra oikodomhshs empistosynhs sto Aigaio. Parakoloyqhsa xqes ta osa eipate, alla den exw katalabei an epibebaiwnete th gnhsiothta toy eggrafoy h oxi;

REPPAS: Den dieceysa thn gnhsiothta toy eggrafoy. Eipa oti den exei perielqei epishmws se organa ths Ellhnikhs Kybernhshs. H Ellhnikh Kybernhsh den asxoleitai me ayto to qema, den syzhthse ep' aytoy toy qematos. Allwste h qesh ths Ellhnikhs Kybernhshs einai gnwsth. Qewroyme pws h syzhthsh kai h symfwnia poy yphrje sth Boyliagmenh metajy Papoylia - Gilmaz einai mia bash, mia kalh bash, gia na yparjei synennohsh sto sygkekrimeno pedio ths synergasias twn dyo xwrwn. Gnwrizete para poly kala pws sth qesh mas ayth, den antapokrinetai h Toyrkia. Gia to sygkekrimeno, loipon, zhthma qewroyme oti yparxei bash gia na epidiwxqei h synennohsh kai h sygklish. Den exoyme na syzhthsoyme ot,idhpote allo poy einai ektos ayths ths symfwnias Papoylia - Gilmaz.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Gia na to katanohsw: Lete oti den exei perielqei epishmws;

REPPAS: Ayto eipa kai xqes.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Me poio tropo hrqe tote se mas;

REPPAS: H Ellhnikh Kybernhsh, ta organa ths, ta stelexh ths den exoyn antimetwpisei ayto to qema, den exoyn asxolhqei me ayto to qema. To eidame to dhmosieyma xqes. Mporei na exei doqei se kapoioys yphresiakoys paragontes. Einai kati poy h Kybernhsh - epanalambanw kai pali - den exei ypoch ths, (ayto to sygkekrimeno keimeno) ws bash gia na to ejetasei h ws protash kapoias sygkekrimenhs Kybernhshs, wste na dwsei kapoia apanthsh.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: O k. Koyrhs den htan melos ths Kybernhshs otan syzhthqhke ayto akribws to paketo twn metrwn perysi sth Rodo, me ton Amerikano Yfypoyrgo;

REPPAS: O k. Koyrhs htan tote sthn idia qesh poy einai kai shmera sto kybernhtiko sxhma. O k. Koyrhs den eixe syzhthsei tetoia qemata. Syzhthseis bebaiws me jenoys paragontes, qewrhtikes syzhthseis, ejelissontai se para polla qemata. Alla h sygkekrimenh protash, opws anaferetai sto keimeno poy dhmosieythke, h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh kai o k. Koyrhs sygkekrimena den edexqhsan ws protash mias pleyras sthn opoia eprepe na apanthsoyn. Eimai poly safhs.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Den thn edexqhsan h den th syzhthsan;

REPPAS: Den th syzhthsan thn protash ayth. Den yphrje dhladh sta xeria toy k. Koyrh ena tetoio keimeno ws protash ths Kybernhshs twn HPA, sto opoio o k. Koyrhs eprepe na deijei endiaferon, na to melethsei, na topoqethqei, wste na dwsei ek meroys ths Ellhnikhs Kybernhshs kapoia apanthsh.

KIAOS: Otan anaferesqe se yphresiakoys paragontes...

REPPAS: Einai kati poy den to gnwrizw. Eipa "einai piqanon". Ayto to xarti, to opoio dhmosieythke sthn ELEYQEROTYPIA, den eipa xqes kai shmera den lew oti einai kataskeya- smeno. Alla h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh me ta organa ths, toys Ypoyrgoys ths, ayto to xarti den to antimetwpizei ws mia protash poy egine epishmws, wste na exei klhqei na dwsei apanthsh s' ayth thn protash.

KIAOS: To katalabainw ayto, allo qelw na rwthsw: Otan anaferesqe endexomenws se yphresiakoys paragontes, oi opoioi yphresiakoi paragontes opoy kai an einai, sta Ypoyrgeia Ejwterikwn, Amynhs, sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh, einai dynaton na erxontai se syzhthseis me alloys yphresiakoys paragontes, twn HPA fer' eipein, kai na mhn gnwrizoyn oi Kybernhseis tipota ep' aytoy;

REPPAS: Ma den exoyn ginei tetoies syzhthseis kai eseis ws bash, gia thn erwthsh sas...

KIAOS: Oxi. Phra ayto poy eipate peri...

REPPAS: Oxi. Pairnete ws bash gia thn erwthsh sas ayto poy egw anefera ws ypoqesh.

KIAOS: Egw pairnw ws dedomeno oti h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh...

REPPAS: Egw den eipa dedomeno. Mporei na exei ginei, den to gnwrizw omws eipa. Mporei na exei ginei, alla eseis pairnete ws dedomeno oti exei ginei gia na diatypwsete thn erwthsh sas. Kai sas bebaiw kai pali oti h yparjh enos eggrafoy den shmainei oti exei anaptyxqei se opoiodhpote epipedo kai syzhthsh me bash ayto to eggrafo. Kai s' ayto eimai kathgorhmati- kos.

KIAOS: Allo lew. Den eftase sta xeria ths Kybernhsews h yphresiakwn paragontwn twn Ypoyrgeiwn ayto to xarti;

REPPAS: To xarti ayto den einai se gnwsh ths Ellhnikhs Kybernhshs, wste na asxolhqei epishmws me ayto to xarti - protash, ws na einai protash mias sygkekrimenhs Kybernhshs mias allhs xwras, mias allhs pleyras.

MIXAHL: Mhpws htan se gnwsh, omws, kapoioy yphresiakoy paragonta...;

REPPAS: Eimai Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos ke Mixahl. Den mporw na gnwrizw sta plaisia twn yphresiwn toy kratoys ti eggrafa diakinoyntai, ti protaseis diatypwnontai, ti syzhthseis ginontai.

GARGALAKOS: Giati den yphrje mia idiaiterh kinhtopoihsh twn organwsewn toy PASOK kata thn episkech toy Prwqypoyrgoy, opws toylaxiston ginotan palaiotera;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw, ke Gargalako, poios baqmos kinhtopoihshs opadwn toy PASOK yphrje me prwtoboylia twn organwn toy Kinhmatos. Kai den to sxoliazw. Einai ena qema to opoio den afora thn Kybernhsh.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Pws sxoliazei h Kybernhsh thn apofash toy Anwtatoy Dikasthrioy gia ta chfiaka thlefwna;

REPPAS: H apofash ayth, opws gnwrizete, exei perielqei sta xeria twn armodiwn Ypoyrgwn, shmera, oi opoioi parapempoyn to qema sto armodio dikastiko organo, sto opoio qa syzhthqei kai to opoio qa labei thn telikh apofash. Qa anamenoyme. Den antapokrinontai, pantws, stis entypwseis poy exoyn dhmioyrghqei ta pragmatika dedomena twn apofasewn.

DHMOSIOGRAFOI: Dhladh, ti ennoeite;

REPPAS: Exei dhmioyrghqei mia entypwsh, h opoia einai yperbolikh. An qelete na mpoyme sthn oysia, par'oti einai poly eidiko qema, mporw na sas pw proswpikws oti den ginetai anafora se paranomies h paratypies tetoies, oi opoies alloiwsan to xarakthra toy diagwnismoy. Alla - epanalambanw kai pali, gi' ayto qelw na kleisei edw h syzhthsh - einai sta plaisia ejelijhs ayto to qema. Den yparxei logos na dwsoyme oristikh apanthsh twra. Asxoloyntai me ayto organa ths politeias, organa ths Dikaiosynhs.

PARIS: H amerikanikh etaireia HYATT, me epistolh ths sthn Ypoyrgo Anaptyjhs ka Papandreoy kai ston Prwqypoyrgo k. Shmith, apeilei oti qa stamathsei tis ependyseis 35 dis. sth Qessalonikh, h opoia einai h megalyterh ependysh ths teleytaias dekaetias (to kazino, marina k.lp.). Anaferei, lejh pros lejh, oti...

REPPAS: Exete thn epistolh eseis thn prwtotyph; Lete oti qa anaferete lejh pros lejh.

PARIS: Dianemhqhke ston Typo. Anaferei h epistolh oti "antilambanesqe oti den einai dynaton na synexisoyme dapanwntas se mia ependysh h opoia kaqistatai meta bebaiothtas qnhsigenhs apo twra ejaitias twn energeiwn toy Ellhnikoy Dhmosioy". Milaei, loipon, gia ta metra ta opoia h ka Papandreoy anakoinwse se prosfath synenteyjh typoy, gia ta metra elegxoy twn kazino. Qa hqela to sxolio ths Kybernhshs: Pws antimetwpizei to qema ayto;

REPPAS: Apo dhmosieymata, ta opoia yphrjan xqes h proxqes, doqhke h entypwsh oti h sygkekrimenh etaireia apeilei me apoxwrhsh afenos kai oti afeteroy zhta apozhmiwsh enos shmantikoy posoy 17 dis., opws egrafh. An h Kybernhsh epimeinei sthn epibolh kapoiwn orwn sth leitoyrgia twn kazinwn, opws exei ejaggelqei, an yparxei, eisithrio sthn eisodo, an den epitrepetai stoys katoikoys ths perioxhs na eiserxontai sto kazino ths sygkekrimenhs perioxhs. Anaferw metajy allwn ayta ta metra. H epistolh poy esteile h sygkekrimenh etaireia, omws, den perilambanei tetoioys oroys h den ekfrazei tetoioy eidoys qa moy epitrecete na pw aithmata. Aplws ekqetei kapoioys problhmatismoys kai kapoies apoceis gyrw apo tis ejaggelies gia ta sygkekrimena metra poy anakoinwse h Kybernhsh dia ths armodias Ypoyrgoy. H Ypoyrgos ejetazei ayta ta qemata kai qa lhfqoyn oi telikes apofaseis. H politikh, omws, ths Kybernhshs - epanalambanw kai pali - den mporei para na einai mia politikh h opoia afenos dhmioyrgei eynoikes synqhkes kai proypoqeseis gia thn yparjh ependysewn, afeteroy omws ejasfalizei synqhkes se kaqe perioxh oi opoies sygkratoyn thn koinwnikh synoxh se ena ychlo epipedo, opws qeloyme panta kai sthn koinwnia dhmioyrgoyn oroys diafaneias kai eyhmerias, xwris parenergeies poy piqanws, polles fores, dhmioyrgoyntai apo epixeirhmatikes drasthriothtes.

PARIS: Se poia allh xwra gia na mpei kapoios se ena kazino, toylaxiston apo ayta poy exoyme eklabei apo thn ka Ypoyrgo, xreiazetai na deijeis forologikh dhlwsh, na apodeijeis oti den einai apo thn perioxh;

REPPAS: Ke Paris, tetoioi periorismoi yphrxan otan leitoyrgoyse to kazino ths Parnhqas ws kratikh epixeirhsh edw kai para polla xronia...

PARIS: Kratiko...

REPPAS: Bebaiws kratiko. Qa moy epitrecete na pw oti h Kybernhsh synanta toys epixeirhmaties kai epidiwkei na exei mazi toys symfwnies tetoies, oi opoies eynooyn afenos tis ependyseis, afeteroy omws diasfalizoyn kai kapoies proypoqeseis gia th leitoyrgia aytwn twn epixeirhsewn, giati h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh qewrei oti exoyn (oi proypoqeseis aytes) thn ajia toys gia thn Ellhnikh koinwnia kai den prepei na tis paragnwrisei. Ayth einai h politikh ths Kybernhshs.

KACAMPELHS: Sthn aysthra politikh diastash toy qematos, olh ayth h istoria den anhsyxei thn Kybernhsh ws pros tis epiptwseis sto ependytiko klima; Eirhsqw en parodw, ston k. Papantwnioy kata to tajidi toy Prwqypoyrgoy sthn Amerikh diatypwqhkan problhmatismoi apo amerikanikhs pleyras gia to poso epidroyn aytes oi apofaseis kai aytes oi skeceis ths Kybernhsews sthn proselkysh ependysewn.

REPPAS: Ke Kacampelh, yparxoyn problhmata sthn ellhnikh koinwnia. H Kybernhsh den einai ikanopoihmenh apo thn yparjh twn problhmatwn. Den zhtwkraygazei gia to oti yparxoyn problhmata sthn ellhnikh koinwnia kai anhsyxei apo thn yparjh h dioggwsh aytwn twn problhmatwn. Gi' ayto ergazetai systhmatika kai me epimeleia na ta antimetwpisei kai na ta lysei.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Einai problhma ths ellhnikhs koinwnias, ke Ypoyrge, to gegonos oti oi Amerikanoi qeloyn eidikes prodiagrafes gia ta kazino sth...;

REPPAS: Dietypwsa mia genikh qesh, ke Mpogiopoyle, gia tis synqhkes oi opoies prepei na epikratoyn sthn koinwnia mas.

MEGGRELHS: Eipe dhladh oti oi Ellhnes einai tzogadoroi;

REPPAS: Den jerw ti einai ayto poy sas wqhse sthn ypobolh ths erwthshs, ti einai ayto poy skefqhkate gia na diatypwsate thn erwthsh poy diatypwsate.

FILHS: Mia synhqws kalws plhroforhmenh efhmerida egrace oti kata th synanthsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy me ton Proedro Klinton, o teleytaios eqese ston Ellhna Prwqypoyrgo to qema toy kazino ths Rodoy kai sygkekrimena mesolabhse yper toy na parei to kazino mia etaireia poy exei sxesh me to Play Boy. Exete kapoio sxolio ep' aytoy;

REPPAS: H sygkekrimenh etaireia sthn opoia anaferesqe exei, nomizw, ekfrasei ena endiaferon na symmetasxei sto diagwnismo ef' oson prokyrhxqei gia kazino sth Rodo. H Ellhnikh Kybernhsh qa ejetasei, me bash tis diadikasies oi opoies einai antikeimenikes kai diafaneis, to endiaferon kaqe etaireias.

KIAOS: Allo rwthse o synadelfos.

REPPAS: An eqese to qema ayto. Polla qemata syzhthqhkan, to sygkekrimeno den nomizw oti to eqese o k. Klinton. En pash periptwsei sto plaisio twn syzhthsewn me paragontes sthn Amerikh nomizw oti tetoies syzhthseis ginontai.

MOYRTZHS: Synhqws h Kybernhsh den pairnei qesh se dikastikes ekkremothtes. Giati phrate qesh sto qema twn chfiakwn; Sas to ypagoreyse o armodios Ypoyrgos h einai dikh sas apoch;

REPPAS: Poio akribws qema k. Moyrtzh;

MOYRTZHS: Oti den ginetai anafora sto porisma toy Elektikoy Synedrioy se paronomoies kai paratypies poy alloiwsan to xarakthra toy diagwnismoy.

REPPAS: Ayto einai mia aisqhsh poy yparxei, alla sas lew kai pali, einai proswpikh qesh kai th diatypwnw etsi afoy qetete to qema epeidh einai se ejelijh h dikastikh ereyna. Edwsa apanthsh.

MOYRTZHS: Yparxei se ekkremothta mia synanthsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy me ton Proedro toy PASOK. Phrate antapokrish gia ayth thn synanthsh; Kai an den symbei yparxei kapoio problhma;

REPPAS: Den yparxei kanena problhma. H epikoinwnia kai oi synanthseis sas eipa oti einai sto programma. Kai otan to programma gia to opoio anaferomaste to epitrepei oi synanthseis ginontai.

MOYRTZHS: Den epeigetai o Prwqypoyrgos na dei ton Proedro toy PASOK;

REPPAS: Oyte epeigetai oyte den epeigetai. Einai kati to opoio qa ginei efoson symfwnhqei kai apo tis dyo pleyres. Einai kati to opoio kai oi dyo pleyres exoyne ypoch toys na kanoyn.

FILHS: Epeidh sthn arxh milhsate gia thn eorth toy Typoy hqela na sas rwthsw ean prokeitai gia eortastikh symptwsh to gegonos oti shmera askhqhke diwjh gia th dhmosieysh orismenwn eggrafwn toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn se orismenes efhmerides;

REPPAS: Gia poio logo askhqhke diwjh;

FILHS: Gia kataskopeia.

REPPAS: Nomizw oti ta dikastika organa exoyn to logo ep' aytwn twn qematwn otan askoyn diwjeis.

FILHS: Ma, kinhqhke h diadikasia katopin parembashs toy k. Pagkaloy ap' o,ti diabazoyme.

REPPAS: O k. Pagkalos den katadikase kanenan. O k. Pagkalos aplws anedeije kati poy apotelei koinh empeiria allwn. Oti aporrhta eggrafa perihlqan se gnwsh toy koinoy, eidan to fws ths dhmosiothtas. Ayto giati kanei entypwsh; Oti apasxolhse dhladh ta dikastika organa;

FILHS: O k. Pagkalos esteile to sxetiko fakelo sthn Eisaggelia Aqhnwn.

REPPAS: Symfwna me ta dhmosieymata. Symfwna loipon me thn apoch ths Kybernhshs, h opoia einai - epanalambanw kai pali - toso poly logikh wste na mhn xreiazetai peraiterw syzhthsh ta dhmosieymata ayta yphrjan, aforoysan eggrafa ta opoia htan xarakthrismena ws aporrhta toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn kai epelhfqhsan ta dikastika organa gia th sygkekrime- nh dhmosieysh twn eggrafwn aytwn.

FILHS: Kapoio sxolio gia thn aytepaggelth ayth diadikasia, poy kata th gnwmh sas kinhqhke;

REPPAS: Den exw kanena sxolio na kanw, otan h Dikaiosynh asxoleitai me sygkekrimenes ypoqeseis.

FILHS: Einai sto plaisio ths nomimothtas;

REPPAS: Den qa elegjw egw tis prwtoboylies tis opoies analambanoyn ta dikastika organa epi tetoiwn qematwn. Gnwrizw, omws, opws gnwrizete ki eseis, oti dhmosieyqhkan aporrhta eggrafa. Prin kathgorhsoyme kapoioys, oi opoioi phran prwtoboylia h anhsyxhsan h qewrhsan oti eprepe na asxolhqoyn, epeidh akribws yphrje dhmosieysh aporrhtwn eggrafwn...

FILHS: Den kathgoroyme kanenan. Rwtame, an kata th gnwmh ths Kybernhshs...

REPPAS: Prospaqoyme na enoxopoihsoyme aytoys, oi opoioi ekfrazoyn ena endiaferon, gia to pws yphrjan aporrhta eggrafa, ta opoia doqhkan sth dhmosiothta kai perihlqan se gnwsh olwn mas.

FILHS: Emeis den mporoyme na apokatasthsoyme edw kanenan. Ayto einai qema ths Dikaiosynhs.

REPPAS: A, mprabo. Afoy einai qema ths Dikaiosynhs, as to afhsoyme gia th Dikaiosynh, ke Filh.

FILHS: Rwtw gia to politiko skelos ths ypoqesews. Ayth th stigmh sth xwra mas askeitai diwjh kata pantos ypeyqynoy, wstoso omws afora dhmosiografoys, oloi to katalabainoyme, gia dhmosieymata me bash thn parabiash mystikhs politeias kai parabiash yphresiakoy aporrhtoy kai to adikhma ths kataskopeias...

REPPAS: Ennoeite oti oi dhmosiografoi prepei na exoyn to akatadiwkto; Ti ennoeite akribws;

FILHS: Erwtw ean h Kybernhsh topoqeteitai politika oti diwkontai gia prwth fora apo to '74 dhmosiografoi me to adikhma ths kataskopeias.

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh einai sfodra antiqeth sto na gnwstopoioyntai h na didontai sth dhmosiothta eggrafa, ta opoia xarakthrizontai aporrhta. Idiaiterws eggrafa toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn. H Kybernhsh parakoloyqei to oti dikastikes arxes epelhfqhsan aytoy toy qematos kai qa anamenei tis apofaseis ths Dikaiosynhs.

MEGGRELHS: Mhpws einai ligo "ntemonte" to adikhma ths kataskopeias; Parapempei se alles epoxes.

REPPAS: Qa asxolhqei m'ayto h Dikaiosynh. Den qa bgalw egw apofash, protoy yparjei apofash ths Dikaiosynhs.

MEGGRELHS: An omws thn idia apanthsh dinate an hsastan Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos ekeines tis epoxes, den nomizw oti (den akoygetai).

REPPAS: Eseis, ke Meggrelh, eisqe dhmosiografos. Egw eimai Ypoyrgos kai Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos. Kai oi dyo eimaste Ellhnes polites. Nomizw oti mporoyme na symfwnhsoyme.

FILHS: Eisqe kai Ypoyrgos Typoy.

REPPAS: Asfalws. Gi'ayto eipa kai "Ypoyrgos".

FILHS: Kai eyaisqhtos sta qemata diwjewn...

REPPAS: Etsi, akribws. Alla, peran olwn omws, oloi edw eimaste Ellhnes polites. Kai nomizw oti prepei na mas eyaisqhtopoiei h dhmosieysh eggrafwn, ta opoia einai aporrhta.

FILHS: Kynhgi magisswn.

REPPAS: Ke Filh, prepei na eimaste eyaisqhtopoihmenoi ws polites, oxi ws dhmosiografoi, oyte ws Ypoyrgoi. To oti dhmosieyontai aporrhta eggrafa toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn...

FILHS: Kai antimetwpizete to qema...

REPPAS: Kai den nomizw oti prepei kapoios na enoxleitai, otan tetoia eggrafa tygxanoyn toy endiaferontos kai ths prosoxhs ths Dikaiosynhs. Den prepei na enoxloymeqa.

FILHS: Yparxei poinikos kwdikas me swreia adikhmatwn. Thn kataskopeia brhkate gia na kathgorhsete toys dhmosiografoys;

REPPAS: ke Filh, poioi thn brhkan; H Kybernhsh;

FILHS: Oxi.

REPPAS: Poios; Giati lete tote "brhkate", symperilambanontas kai emena kai di'emoy thn Kybernhsh;

FILHS: Dioti synepraje kai o k. Pagkalos.

REPPAS: Sas parakalw para poly, o k. Eisaggeleas askhse th diwjh. O idios topoqethse th diwjh sta plaisia twn diatajewn poy yparxoyn. Kai nomizw oti ta organa ths Dikaiosynhs qa kanoyn to ergo toys. Na afhsete thn Kybernhsh ejw, parakalw para poly, apo tetoioy eidoys prwtoboylies.

KIAOS: Epitrepete; Epeidh lete oti menei ejw h Kybernhsh kai epeidh exei mia genikoterh - ypotiqetai - antilhch twn pragmatwn. Eixan katarghqei oi nomoi 375 kai 509 toy parelqontos. Ayth th stigmh exoyme ena neo dedomeno. Den to sysxetizw me ta alla. Qelw th gnwmh sas gia th diwjh poy askeitai "peri kataskopeias".

REPPAS: Ke Kiao, pisteyete pws oi dhmosiografoi exoyn to akatadiwkto; Erwtw kai pali.

KIAOS: Oxi.

REPPAS: Oxi, bebaia. Ws Ellhnes polites qewroyme oti h dhmosieysh aporrhtwn eggrafwn kai idiaiterws eggrafwn toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn einai prajh aparadekth; Den lew ajiopoinh. Den mpainw se alla xwrafia. Einai prajh aparadekth; Symfwneite kyrioi;

KIAOS: Oxi.

REPPAS: A, den symfwneite. Kalws. Allh erwthsh.

KIAOS: Oxi, allo sas eipa. Se tipote den symfwnw.

REPPAS: Wraia, ke Kiao, den symfwneite.

KIAOS: Eisaste h Kybernhsh kai emeis rwtame...

REPPAS: Sas edwsa thn apanthsh...

KIAOS: Oxi.

REPPAS: ... ki enw h apanthsh einai plhrhs - giati pollh wra asxolhqhkame me to qema ayto, wste na mhn yparxoyn kena - blepw oti ginetai mia prospaqeia...

KIAOS: Ena qema einai, tipote allo.

REPPAS: ... gi'ayto antikroyw, thn prospaqeia ayth, na noiwsoyn peripoy enoxoi opoioi eixan thn prwtoboylia na asxolhqoyn me to qema ths dhmosieyshs aporrhtwn eggrafwn toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn.

KIAOS: Oxi, allo einai to qema.

REPPAS: Ayto einai to qema, ke Kiao, etsi opws to antilambanomai.

KIAOS: Oxi mono ayto.

REPPAS: An yparxei allo qema na to qesete, gia na labete allh apanthsh.

KIAOS: H erwthsh einai sygkekrimenh.

REPPAS: Ean eimaste yper, genikws, ths eleyqerias toy Typoy;

KIAOS: Oxi mono ayto.

REPPAS: Ti rwtate akribws;

KIAOS: To sygkekrimeno qema poy anakalyptetai "h kataskopeia": Apo poy kai pws;

REPPAS: To adikhma ws adikhma kataskopeias to diatypwse o sygkekrimenos dikastikos leitoyrgos. Ayto qelete na sxoliasw;

MIXAHL: Thn apoch ths Kybernhshs epi toy zhtoymenoy: Mporei na diwxqei dhmosiografos poy dhmosieyei, estw, aporrhta eggrafa ws kataskopos; Dioti emena, jerete ti moy lete me thn apanthsh sas; To synadelfo ton sygkekrimeno poy proebh s'ayth thn prajh, den prepei na toy milaw, einai kataskopos.

REPPAS: Ke Mixahl...

MIXAHL: Na diatypwsw alliws thn erwthsh: H dhmosieysh aporrhtwn eggrafwn, prajh thn opoia eseis prohgoymenws xarakthrisate ws aparadekto gegonos, qewreite oti synista kataskopeia apo ton sygkekrimeno dhmosiografo poy analambanei thn eyqynh na ta dhmosieysei;

REPPAS: Ma, h Kybernhsh den askei diwjh. M'ayth thn ennoia h Kybernhsh - opws ginetai se mia eynomoymenh Politeia poy exei qesmoys, oi opoioi leitoyrgoyn - parakoloyqei tis prwtoboylies poy analambanoyn ta armodia organa gia tetoioy eidoys qemata, ta opoia prokyptoyn.

MIXAHL: De qelw na moy peite ti ekane o dikastikos. Dikaiwma toy na kanei o,ti qelei...

REPPAS: Ma, moy lete na krinw mia dikastikh energeia. Ayto moy lete.

MIXAHL: Oxi. Qelw na krinete to ejhs: An ayrio egw parw ena eggrafo apo to Grafeio sas, me kapoio tropo kai to dhmosieysw, eimai kataskopos; Nai h oxi;

REPPAS: Ke Mixahl, an ayrio eseis parete ena eggrafo aporrhto kai to dhmosieysete, to Ypoyrgeio sto opoio anhkei ayto to eggrafo, fantazomai oti qa ejantlhsei tis dynatothtes poy exei, tis elegktikes, wste na diapistwsei pws ayto to eggrafo efqase sth dhmosiothta. Parallhlws, yparxoyn qesmoi se mia koinwnia, ta organa ths Dikaiosynhs en prokeimenw, poy qa analaboyn piqanws prwtoboylies apo th dikh toys pleyra. H Ellhnikh Kybernhsh den qa sxoliasei tis prwtoboylies aytes twn dikastikwn organwn. Na eimaste ejhghmenoi. Yparxei diakrish ejoysiwn kai yparxoyn roloi oi opoioi prepei na analambanontai apo aytoys, oi opoioi einai diapisteymenoi gia kaqe rolo.

KACAMPELHS: Anejarthta apo th dikastikh diatajh kai ta peri Dikaiosynhs, ta katalabame.

REPPAS: Na katalabw kai egw ti rwtate;

KACAMPELHS: Wraia. Afhste to dikastiko meros. H Kybernhsh, epeidh einai kai "freskia" kai qelw na jerw thn apoch ths, se politiko epipedo, pisteyei oti o Typos en Elladi exei kaqhkon na enhmerwnei thn koinh gnwmh kai di' eggrafwn poy peftoyn sta xeria toy gia thn poreia epi eqnikwn qematwn;

REPPAS: Egw pisteyw oti o Typos, bebaiws, exei kaqhkon kai ypoxrewsh - qa elega - na enhmerwnei thn koinh gnwmh, alla h enhmerwsh ayth ginetai epi tw skopw na bohqhqei to Eqnos kai na bohqhqei h Ellhnikh Koinwnia. Den ginetai epi tw skopw efhmeroy entypwsiasmoy h katw apo to agxos kai thn agwnia ejasfalishs ychlhs kykloforias h akroamatikothtas h thleqeashs. Parakalw para poly, o Typos sthn Ellada, eipa apo thn arxh, brisketai se ychlo epipedo. Oi synqhkes eleyqerias gia ton Typo einai monadikes sthn Ellada se sxesh me alles xwres - oxi mono geitonikes, sthn Eyrwph kai alloy - kai ayto prepei oloi na to anagnwrizoyn.

KACAMPELHS: Ep'aytoy, loipon, ke Ekproswpe: H Kybernhsh se politiko epipedo qewrei oti osa eggrafa exoyn dhmosieyqei to teleytaio trimhno kai aforoyn ta eqnika mas qemata exoyn prokalesei blabh sta eqnika symferonta;

REPPAS: Qewroyme oti opoiodhpote eggrafo exei ena orismeno xarakthrismo, poy ek toy xarakthrismoy aytoy epiballetai na meinei sta stena oria mias Yphresias, den prepei na dinetai sth dhmosiothta. Alliws, den qa exei nohma o xarakthrismos twn eggrafwn.

KACAMPELHS: Den sas rwthsa ayto.

REPPAS: Apo th stigmh, loipon, poy ena eggrafo xarakthrizetai ws aporrhto, poy shmainei oti kai mono ej aytoy toy logoy den prepei - peran twn oriwn ths Yphresias - na diafygei, otan diafeygei, logiko einai na prokaleitai blabh.

KACAMPELHS: Afhste thn Yphresia. Egw sas rwthsa gia to kaqhkon toy Typoy.

REPPAS: Eseis qelete to kaqhkon toy Typoy, alla to kaqhkon ths Dikaiosynhs, tis ypoxrewseis poy aporreoyn, den qelete na paradexqeite oti kapoioi prepei na tis askoyn kai na tis yphretoyn.

KACAMPELHS: Ke Ypoyrge, den sas rwtw gia th Dikaiosynh. Sas rwtaw: Kata thn politikh apoch ths Kybernhshs - poy einai sxetika nea kai den gnwrizoyme thn apoch ths gi'ayta ta qemata - o Typos, o dhmosiografos exei kaqhkon na enhmerwsei thn koinh gnwmh; Kai se syndyasmo me thn erwthsh ayth, sas lew an ola ta eggrafa - gia na ginoyme pio praktikoi - poy exoyn dhmosieyqei ston Ellhniko Typo, to teleytaio trimhno, exoyn kata th gnwmh ths Kybernhshs prokalesei blabh sta eqnika symferonta.

REPPAS: Qewrw pws o,tidhpote krinetai apo tis armodies Yphresies pws prepei na parameinei - epanalambanw kai pali - sta plaisia aytwn twn Yphresiwn kai en toytois dinetai sth dhmosiothta, diafeygei, logiko einai na episyrei thn prosoxh ths Yphresias kai logiko einai, aytomatws - etsi prepei na qewreitai - na prokalei blabh. Alliws, an den eprokaleito blabh apo th gnwstopoihsh dhmosiws enos eggrafoy, den qa yphrxe logos ek twn proterwn to kaqe eggrafo na exei ena xarakthrismo. Kai sthn prokeimenh periptwsh ta eggrafa xarakthrizo- ntai ws aporrhta. Xarakthrizontai aporrhta, gi'ayto kai mono to logo: Gia na mhn perielqoyn se gnwsh ths koinhs gnwmhs, giati an ginei ayto, qewreitai pws prokaleitai blabh.

KACAMPELHS: Peite mas, loipon, poia blabh ta sygkekrimena eggrafa prokalesan sta dhmosia symferonta;

REPPAS: Ke Kacampelh, m'ayto to qema asxoleitai h Dikaiosynh. Qa yparjei apofash ths Dikaiosynhs. Den qa syzhthsoyme edw, poia einai h blabh h to baqmo ths blabhs kai an yparxei blabh.

GARGALAKOS: Aiqoysa problhmatismoy eimaste...

REPPAS: E, mporoyme na ginoyme amfiqeatro bebaiws, alla ayto einai kati poy oso kai an to nostalgoyme den prokeitai na to janazhsoyme.

GARGALAKOS: ... kai qewrhtikhs analyshs.

REPPAS: Den fantazomai na exoyme kataloipa h kena apo ekeinh thn periodo. Htan plhrhs h periodos ekeinh gia oloys mas.

KACAMPELHS: Yioqethsate th dikastikh apoch me thn apanthsh poy dwsate.

REPPAS: Den jerw, ke Kacampelh, pws krinete eseis tis apanthseis poy dinw. Ayto to opoio, omws, egw prepei na kanw edw, einai na syzhtw se mia pragmatikh bash kai oxi sth bash ypoqesewn h ektimhsewn h sxoliwn h analysewn. Ayta ejasfalizoyn gia sas, bebaiws, trofh, alla epanalambanw kai pali oti ws problhmata einai shmantika kai den prosferontai gia th dhmioyrgia entypwsewn.

FILHS: Epi pragmatikhs basews: Ean - opws leei to dhmosieyma poy diabazw - to endiaferon ths Eisaggelias Prwtodikwn kinhqhke meta apo prwtoboylia toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn na diabibasei ta sxetika apokommata toy Typoy sthn Eisaggelia Prwtodikwn.

REPPAS: Ma, to Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn, eyqys ws proekyce to qema, ekane gnwsto oti exei diatajei elegxo sta plaisia twn yphresiwn toy Ypoyrgeioy. Egine gnwsto...

FILHS: Ayto afora to mellon. Eipe o k. Pagkalos...

REPPAS: Egine gnwsto giati topoqethqhke dhmosiws o k. Pagkalos. Eipe oti ayth h energeia einai aparadekth kai h hgesia toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn qa asxolhqei eidikws me th diarroh sth dhmosiothta aytwn twn eggrafwn.

FILHS: Ayto afora to mellon, eixe pei o k. Pagkalos. Yphrje prosklhsh toy k. Pagkaloy pros thn Eisaggelia na ereynhsei to qema kai synepws na askhsei - an prokyptoyn...

REPPAS: Qewreite, loipon, oti h Eisaggelia ektelei diatetagmenh yphresia; Ayto lete;

FILHS: Qewrw oti den ypepese sthn antilhch toy armodioy Eisaggelea...

REPPAS: 'H apo thn allh lete oti prepei to Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn...

FILHS: O k. Pagkalos parekinhse ayth thn ereyna.

REPPAS: Ma, o k. Pagkalos, apo th stigmh poy dhmosiws xarakthrise ayth thn energeia ws mia energeia blaptikh, logiko einai na prokalei to endiaferon twn organwn ths Politeias na asxolhqoyn m' ayth th sygkekrimenh prajh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ke Ypoyrge, apo to '74 kai meta exei askhqei poinikh diwjh kata dhmosiografwn gia kataskopeia;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw apo to '74 kai meta na exei askhqei. Mporw na to ereynhsw. Ke Stamatopoyle exoyn askhqei polles diwjeis gia polla qemata...

STAMATOPOYLOS: Gi'ayto...

REPPAS:... kai mporw na sas anaferw polles diwjeis, oi opoies exoyn askhqei kat'entolh Kybernhsewn. Alla, sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh kai malista gia ena eggrafo poy afora eqniko qema kai exei xarakthrisqei aporrhto, paei para poly na yparxei aytoy toy eidoys h eyaisqhsia, h opoia adikei thn Kybernhsh, adikei kai thn eyaisqhsia poy epedeije, sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh, ena dikastiko organo.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Giati bgainei apo ta arxeia ayto to arqro twra, enantion twn dhmosiogra- fwn; Mporeite na moy peite;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw poios exei balei sto rafi ayto to arqro, wste na yparxei aytos o opoios prepei na kathgorhqei giati to katebase apo to rafi.

KACAMPELHS: Na xrhsimopoieite pio syxna (den akoygetai).

REPPAS: Den kaqorizw egw to plaisio mesa sto opoio qa kinoyntai oi qesmoqethmenes ejoysies ths Ellhnikhs Politeias.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Na mhn grafoyme, gia na mhn...

REPPAS: Isa-isa, otan yparxei diakrish ejoysiwn, ayto prepei sthn prajh na to diapistwnoy- me. Den nomizw oti prepei h Kybernhsh eite na apologeitai, eite na egkaleitai gia pragmata poy ginontai, eite gia pragmata poy amelei kai den ginontai, otan den aforoyn to diko ths xwro.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Oxi, epi ayths ths Kybernhsews ginetai ayto. Den exei ginei apo to '74 mexri shmera, gi'ayto rwthsa.

MIXAHL: An, dhladh, qighkate kai qewreite oti proekyce blabh sth xwra, breste poioi einai aytoi oi opoioi piqanon na mhn ekanan kala to kaqhkon toys ws kaq'ylhn Ypoyrgoi. Kai oxi emeis oi opoioi giname koinwnoi aytwn twn eggrafwn kai kriname oti eprepe na to dhmosieysoy- me.

REPPAS: Yparxei eggrafo pros oles tis kateyqynseis. Nomizw oti gia na yparjei ayth h diarroh prepei na yparxei ypaitios yphresiakos paragwn. Kai h ereyna ginetai kai s'ayth thn kateyqynsh, fantazomai. O Eisaggeleas asfalws exei dikaiwma na asxolhqei kai m'ayth th diastash toy problhmatos.

MIXAHL: Ti sas enoxlhse;

REPPAS: Asfalws mas exei prokalesei enoxlhsh. Kai yparxei ereyna toy Ypoyrgeioy pros thn kateyqynsh twn eyqynwn yphresiakwn paragontwn.

MIXAHL: Gia mas, oxi gi'aytoys.

REPPAS: An h Dikaiosynh asxolhqei me to problhma se baqos, pisteyw oti kai ayth th diastash toy problhmatos qa thn ejetasei. Einai aytonohto, einai logiko. Kynhgate "anemomyloys", omws, polles fores. Kai ayto den nomizw pws einai o,ti kalytero.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Skopeyei h Kybernhsh kai sygkekrimena to Ypoyrgeio sas na zhthsei thn anaklhsh aytoy toy nomoy "peri kataskopeias";

REPPAS: Den apasxolei thn Kybernhsh to qema twra. Einai ena qema poy paroysiazei endiaferon, alla fantazomai oti ola ayta mporoyn na antimetwpisqoyn sthn prajh, poly perissotero otan dhmioyrgoyntai tetoioy eidoys problhmata, efoson yparjei - epanalambanw kai pali - ena allo epipedo proswpikhs eyqynhs toy kaqena mas, se oloys toys tomeis. Eite afora to qema ths leitoyrgias twn Yphresiwn, eite afora to xwro ths enhmerwshs twn politwn.

PARIS: Shmera, 40 epixeirhseis sto Xrhmatisthrio den diapragmateyontai. To sxolio sas.

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh exei diatypwsei ena Proedriko Diatagma. To P.D. ayto exei nomikh isxy kai prepei na ginei sebasto.

PARIS: Ke Ypoyrge, otan to Symboylio Epikrateias ejedwse kapoia apofash gia thn Paideia, tote o k. G. Papandreoy ekane kapoia ekklhsh pros to Symboylio Epikrateias na epanejeta- sqei ayth h katastash. Den qa htan qemito, logw ths krishs poy antimetwpizei teleytaia h kefalaiagora, na ginei kati analogo apo ton k. Papantwnioy;

REPPAS: Ta qemata politikhs, h Kybernhsh ta antimetwpizei analogws me ta problhmata poy prokyptoyn. Yparxei mia diafora.

PARIS: Den endiaferei dhladh;

REPPAS: Thn endiaferei idiaiterws. Kai milhsa gia thn anhsyxia ths Kybernhshs, eyqys ej arxhs.

PARIS: Den to deixnei.

REPPAS: Asfalws to deixnei. Kai epanalambanw kai pali oti endiaferqhke gi'ayto to klima poy prepei na epikratei sthn agora, alla taytoxronws endiaferqhke kai gia tis synqhkes diafaneias poy prepei na yparxoyn sthn Ellhnikh Koinwnia. Epeidh prepei na eimaste mia dhmokratikh koinwnia, ke Paris, gi'ayto. Kai yparxei mia diafora anamesa sto qema poy qijate - kai afora thn prwtoboylia toy Ypoyrgoy Paideias - kai sto qema poy exei prokycei apo to P.D. "peri onomastikopoihshs twn metoxwn Texnikwn Etairiwn". Kai stis dyo periptwseis yparxoyn nomoi h apofaseis Ellhnikwn Kybernhsewn. Kai sth mia periptwsh, to Symboylio Epikrateias diapistwse oti yparxei antisyntagmatikothta, sthn allh periptwsh, oxi. Ekei poy yparxei antisyntagmatikothta aytomatws prokaloyntai problhmata. O Ypoyrgos Paideias me thn eyaisqhsia poy ton diakrinei, zhthse na yparjei mia epimelhs proseggish sto qema, wste ta problhmata ayta na mhn exoyn dysmeneis synepeies gia toys neoys maqhtes. Sthn allh periptwsh to Symboylio Epikrateias den diapistwse na yparxoyn problhmata. H politikh eikona ayth paramenei.

PARIS: To Xrhmatisthrio zhthse mia paratash. Ayto zhthse.

REPPAS: Ma, to Symboylio Epikrateias apanthse, ke Paris. Kai h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh - epanalambanw kai pali - o,ti problhma prokyptei, o,ti problhma diapistwnei pws einai antimetwpisimo giati odhgei se mia beltiwsh ths politikhs ths, qa to antimetwpisei.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Moy ofeilete mia apanthsh apo xqes: Poio einai to "mikro" poson poy diateqhke gia thn afissa;

REPPAS: To poso poy diateqhke gia thn afissa, ke Stamatopoyle, prepei na einai mikrotero apo to 1/3 twn apodoxwn sas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete posa pairnw; Alloi einai "kataskopoi", oxi emeis.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Mas kathgoreite gia kataskopeia, ke Ekproswpe, kai...

REPPAS: Gi'ayto to eipa etsi, ke Mpogiopoyle. Loipon, exw plhroforhqei oti to poson gia ton mikro ariqmo afisswn poy ektypwqhkan, einai peripoy h mikrotero twn 200.000 draxmwn. Milame gia 180.000 draxmes.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Pairnei 600.000 drx. o Stamatopoylos;

REPPAS: O k. Stamatopoylos pairnei parapanw. Fantazomai na to ajizei!
Kalo Sabbatokyriako.

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