Greek Government Press Briefing, 06-03-16

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 16 Martioy 2006

JENOY TYPOY APO TON ANAPLHRWTH KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

EYAGGELO ANTWNARO

Xairete.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

MANH: Xqes, h VODAFONE edwse mia lista thlefwnikwn ariqmwn. Apo shmerina dhmosieymata prokyptei oti ayto to 12mhno den eixe ginei taytopoihsh 30 ariqmwn. H taytopoihsh ayth egine apo toys dhmosiografoys -anaferetai shmera stis efhmerides- kai prokyptei oti metajy twn parakoloyqoymenwn einai o dioikhths ths EYP, o Xrhstos Tsigaridas, h korh toy k. Molybiath k.t.l. H erwthsh moy einai h ejhs: Epi 12 mhnes, 11 mhnes poy hjere thn ypoqesh h kybernhsh kai o enas mhnas poy dianyoyme twra, den eixe kapoios thn periergeia na kanei ayth thn taytopoihsh h prokeitai gia mia lista amfisbhtoymenhs sobarothtas;

ANTWNAROS: Gia th sygkekrimenh lista poy anaferetai den exw na kanw kanena sxolio. H kybernhsh edwse sth Dikaiosynh osa stoixeia ths eixan doqei. H Dikaiosynh synexizei thn ereyna ths. Den exw na pw tipote perissotero.

PAPAGIANNHS: Exw dyo erwthseis. H prwth afora thn paroysia toy k. Aggeloy sthn Epitroph ths Boylhs. Pote telika qa pragmatopoihqei, gnwrizete;

ANTWNAROS: To qema ths kataqeshs toy k. Aggeloy einai qema koinoboyleytikhs diadikasias. Gia thn hmeromhnia, parakalw opws apeyqynqeite sth Boylh.

PAPAGIANNHS: H deyterh erwthsh moy den afora tis ypoklopes. Afora to ``blaxomparok'' poy eidame proxqes sth Gioyrobizion, ayto to apisteyto kata th gnwmh moy kits -kai epitrecte moy na ekfrasw thn proswpikh moy apoch- qelw na sas rwthsw poso qa mas kostisei olh ayth h diadikasia ths Gioyrobizion. Poso peripoy qa paei to ``malli'';

ANTWNAROS: Sas parakalw na apeyqynqeite sthn ERT.

PAPAGIANNHS: Den eiste politikos proistamenos;

ANTWNAROS: Politikos proistamenos, egw; Oxi.

BLAXOS: Pantws, hsastan ekei kai to xarhkate.

ANTWNAROS: Bebaiws kai den symmerizomai kaqoloy toys sxoliasmoys poy molis akoysthkan.

BLAXOS: Se epaneilhmmenes erwthseis poy eixame kanei an yparxoyn alles listes ektos apo ayth poy mas eixan dwsei oi treis ypoyrgoi, kai eseis kai o k. Roysopoylos eixate antidrasei me xarakthrismoys poy den exoyn ginei sto parelqon sto press-room. Twra poy bgainoyn oi listes, twra poy bgainei mia lista me perissotera onomata, 108 xqes, o de k. Zhkoy eipe sthn Epitroph Qesmwn, se epishmo bhma, oti exoyme dwsei para polles listes me thlefwna ston k. Korwnia.

ANTWNAROS: To qema to ereynatai apo th Dikaiosynh. Qa to pw gia pollosth fora se ayth thn aiqoysa: Opoios exei stoixeia h opoios isxyrizetai oti exei stoixeia den exei para na ta dwsei sth Dikaiosynh.

BLAXOS: Nai, alla to qema einai oti eseis mexri twra arniosastan epishmws oti yparxei allh lista.

ANTWNAROS: Den isxyei kati tetoio.

BLAXOS: O k. Roysopoylos. Ypociazomai oti eiste synexeia toy k. Roysopoyloy.

ANTWNAROS: An protimate ayth thn ekfrash, ``eimai synexeia toy k. Roysopoyloy''. Ekeino poy qelw na sas tonisw einai oti osa stoixeia exei h kybernhsh ta exei dwsei sth Dikaiosynh.

BLAXOS: Ma, xqes, o k. Karamarios edwse mia lista h opoia exei perissotera onomata apo o,ti dwsate eseis sth dhmosiothta.

ANTWNAROS: Profanws sygxeete thn ektelestikh me th nomoqetikh ejoysia.

BLAXOS: Poia einai ayth;

ANTWNAROS: O k. Karamarios einai melos ths Boylhs twn Ellhnwn.

BLAXOS: Oxi, einai melos ths Epitrophs.

ANTWNAROS: Einai melos ths nomoqetikhs ejoysias. Opoios exei stoixeia, den exei para na ta dwsei sth Dikaiosynh.

BLAXOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, kanete pws den katalabainete thn erwthsh moy. O k. Karamarios den edwse dikh toy lista. Thn epejergasthke men, alla h lista poy edwse htan ayth poy ypotiqetai edwse se sas o k. Korwnias. Dhladh, o k. Korwnias eipe sthn Epitroph Qesmwn oti ``opoia lista edwsa sthn kybernhsh, kyrioi qa sas th dwsw''. Mas th dinei, loipon, kai xqes mas th dinei o k. Karamarios kai blepoyme oti exoyme diafores sth lista ayth apo ayth ths kybernhshs.

ANTWNAROS: Sas epanalambanw gia mia akomh fora: Apo thn prwth stigmh, osa stoixeia eixe h kybernhsh ta edwse sth Dikaiosynh. Sth diaqesh ths kybernhshs, den yparxoyn alla stoixeia.

BLAXOS: O k. Korwnias eipe oti epejergasthkate th lista. Oti den einai h lista ayth.

ANTWNAROS: Ep` aytoy sas exei apanthsei o k. Roysopoylos. Den prokeitai na epanalabw osa eipe prin apo liges hmeres edw se ayth thn aiqoysa.

BLAXOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, einai diaforetiko to skhniko shmera, meta tis apokalyceis twn anqrwpwn ths ERICSSON kai ths VODAFONE.

ANTWNAROS: Orismenoi qeloyn na dhmioyrghsoyn ena diaforetiko skhniko. H dikastikh ereyna einai se ejelijh. Den prokeitai na kanw kanena sxolio gia th dikastikh ereyna.

BLAXOS: Ma, me sygxwreite k. Ekproswpe, oi ``orismenoi'' einai oi anqrwpoi poy eneplakhsan sto qema twn ypoklopwn; Ennow thn ERICSSON kai th VODAFONE. Aytoi einai oi basikoi anqrwpoi poy prepei na akoysoyme.

ANTWNAROS: H Dikaiosynh diejagei thn ereyna.

BLAXOS: H kybernhsh se ayto to mega qema ``niptei tas xeiras ths'';

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh den diejagei dikastikh ereyna. Sas to exw pei epaneilhmmenws.

BLAXOS: Ma, einai meizon politiko qema to qema twn ypoklopwn. Einai dynaton h kybernhsh na sfyrizei adiafora;

ANTWNAROS: Qa sas parakaloysa na kanete tetoioy eidoys sxolia sthn ekpomph sas.

BLAXOS: Einai dynaton h kybernhsh na parapempei se ayto to meizon qema, otan o k. Zhkoy bgainei kai leei oti ``moy phran ta stoixeia 16 Martioy, meta th synanthsh poy eixe o k. Korwnias me toys ypoyrgoys, moy phran ta stoixeia, ta 51 ntams ; Ayto einai aixmh kata ths kybernhshs.

ANTWNAROS: Den prokeitai na sxoliasw. Eseis to ermhneyete etsi. Sas eipa oti oi ermhneies einai diko sas pronomio.

BLAXOS: Eseis pws ermhneyete th frash toy k. Zhkoy oti meta th synanthsh Korwnia me ypoyrgoys moy phran ta 51 ntams, 16 Martioy toy 2005.

ANTWNAROS: Oses erwthseis kai na kanete den prokeitai na diaforopoihqw apo osa sas exw pei. Sas eyxaristw poly gia tis erwthseis sas.

GALIATSATOS: Apo o,ti eipate prohgoymenws, na katalabw oti exoyme na kanoyme me mia diaforetikh lista, ayth h lista poy dhmosieyetai shmera kai exei kai to onoma toy k. Koranth, opws apokalyptoyn ``TA NEA''. Einai mia diaforetikh lista apo th lista poy exei h kybernhsh kai eixe dwsei sth Dikaiosynh; Giati mas lete oti ola ta stoixeia ta exei dwsei h kybernhsh sth Dikaiosynh, ara ayto to stoixeio poy den eixe h kybernhsh einai mallon kainoyrgio stoixeio. Exoyme dyo diaforetikes listes; Ti akribws symbainei;

ANTWNAROS: Epanalambanw gia allh mia fora: Osa stoixeia perihlqan se gnwsh ths kybernhshs, h kybernhsh ta paredwse sth Dikaiosynh. An yparxoyn alles listes, ayto einai antikeimeno ths dikastikhs ereynas na to diereynhsei kai na katalhjei sta symperasmata ths.

GALIATSATOS: Ep` aytoy, loipon, mia erwthsh: Epeidh exete epanalabei apo ayto to bhma kai oloi mas exoyn epanalabei oti egine mia diejodikh ereyna twn stoixeiwn poy eixe, qewreite oti eixe kanei kala th doyleia toy o k. Boylgarakhs telika h den thn eixe kanei;

ANTWNAROS: Mia ereyna exei diafora stadia. Arxizei me thn astynomikh ereyna. Otan ayth oloklhrwqei, perna h ypoqesh sta xeria ths Dikaiosynhs. Pragmatopoieitai to prwto stadio ths dikastikhs ereynas, to opoio oloklhrwqhke. Meta apo thn oloklhrwsh toy, opws gnwrizete, oi treis ypoyrgoi enhmerwsan toys Ellhnes polites. H dikastikh ereyna synexizetai.

SARANTAKOS: Hqela na rwthsw thn politikh sas ektimhsh. Opws apokalyptetai shmera, ena apo ta thlefwna poy parakoloyqoyntan htan toy dioikhth ths EYP, toy presbh k. Koranth. Anhsyxei ayto thn kybernhsh oti ena proswpo poy ek ths qeshs toy xeirizetai aporrhtes eqnikes plhrofories, oti to thlefwno toy parakoloyqeito;

ANTWNAROS: Thn kybernhsh thn anhsyxei h parakoloyqhsh opoioydhpote thlefwnoy.

SARANTAKOS: Fobatai h kybernhsh oti yphrjan kapoies plhrofories, oi opoies eginan eyrytera gnwstes; Milaw gia plhroforhsh eqnikhs asfaleias.

ANTWNAROS: Den exw na pw tipote panw se ayto.

POYLIDOY: H kybernhsh edwse sth Dikaiosynh osa stoixeia diaqetei, alla fainetai oti den ta edwse sth dhmosiothta. Giati edw prokyptei mia nea lista. Einai swsto to symperasma moy;

ANTWNAROS: To symperasma sas einai laqos. H kybernhsh edwse sth Dikaiosynh ola ta stoixeia poy dieqete.

BLAXOS: Apo poion dieqete ta stoixeia; Einai shmantiko ayto.

ANTWNAROS: Se ayth thn erwthsh exoyme apanthsei polles fores.

BLAXOS: Ta stoixeia ta phran apo ton k. Korwnia. Den ta phrate apo anejarthth arxh.

ANTWNAROS: Exoyme apanthsei polles fores. Tote, den leitoyrgoyse h sygkekrimenh anejarthth arxh poy ypainisseste.

BLAXOS: Kanete laqos. Leitoyrgoyse.

ANTWNAROS: Synexizw thn apanthsh moy sthn k. Poylidoy. Sas eipa, loipon, oti ta stoixeia poy eixe h kybernhsh ta edwse, opws eixe qesmikh ypoxrewsh, sth Dikaiosynh. H diejagwgh ths ereynas einai mystikh. To ypogrammizw gia mia akomh fora.

POYLIDOY: Epeidh se ekeinh thn prwth synenteyjh poy eixate dwsei h emfash, apo o,ti qymamai apo thn kybernhsh, einai oti osa stoixeia dieqete ta edwse sth dhmosiothta. Edw prokyptoyn stoixeia poy den eixan doqei sth dhmosiothta.

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh edwse ta stoixeia sth Dikaiosynh kai enhmerwse plhrws thn koinh gnwmh.

SIDERHS: Ti egine k. Ekproswpe; O mesaios xwros anakalyce oti to jylo odhgei ston ergasiako paradeiso;

ANTWNAROS: Den katalaba, ti ennoeite;

SIDERHS: Ennow oti xqes gia prwth fora epiteqhkan ta MAT sthn epishmh poreia ths GSEE kai ths ADEDY. Mexri twra, ta MAT kalws h kakws -ayto einai sxoliasmos, den qa to kanw- epitiqentan sthn ejwkoinoboyleytikh Aristera. Prwth fora eixame mia tetoia epiqetikothta ek meroys twn arxwn poy deixnei kai sklhrynsh ths kybernhshs apenanti stoys ergazomenoys.

ANTWNAROS: Den yphrje epiqetikh energeia twn astynomikwn organwn. Yphrje amyntikh prospaqeia apwqhshs twn epitiqemenwn omadwn @den qelw na pw oti htan apergoi oloi aytoi poy epeteqhsan se dyo shmeia- oi opoies prospaqhsan na diaspasoyn me biaio kai epiqetiko tropo ta mploka twn organwn poy htan epifortismena me th diathrhsh ths tajhs. Allwste, sthn epiqesh poy egine traymatisthke kai enas oxi ashmantos ariqmos astynomikwn organwn.

BLAXOS: Ti htan afoy den htan apergoi;

ANTWNAROS: Den gnwrizw.

SIDERHS: Eipate ``htan ta epishma mploka'' kai einai prwth fora kati tetoio poy symbainei. Kai kati allo: Htan toso megalh h epityxia poy egine apo to EKOFIN, wste na bgei o Prwqypoyrgos na kanei diaggelma. Opws dhlwse o boyleyths toy SYN k. Dragasakhs sth Boylh, to PASOK eixe pente O.K. sta analoga programmata toy. Poy thn eidate th megalh epityxia kai bghke o k. Prwqypoyrgos kai ekane diaggelma gia to aytonohto;

ANTWNAROS: Hsastan xqes edw;

SIDERHS: Oxi.

ANTWNAROS: Synepws den akoysate ton k. Roysopoylo. Isxyoyn oi apanthseis toy.

KYRITSHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qelw na epistrecw sto prohgoymeno qema. Den gnwrizw apo poy exete tis plhrofories, alla osoi apo emas hmastan xqes sthn poreia, alla kai osoi thn eidame apo thn thleorash, eidame ta MAT na xtypan gynaikes, na xtypan syntajioyxoys, akoysame aimofyrto syntajioyxo na kataggellei oti matatzhs toy eipe ``na kaqesai spiti soy kwlogere'' kai nomizw oti h eikona mila apo monh ths. H kybernhsh prepei na pei apo poioys dexthke epiqesh kai bash poias logikhs yphrxan MAT se epafh me thn poreia ths GSEE kai ths ADEDY. Giati ta MAT mphkan kai xtyphsan thn poreia. Thn ekocan sta dyo. Epenebh o k. Polyzwgopoylos, ola ayta eginan dhmosia. Den mporeite na mas lete oti kapoioi genikws epiteqhkan stoys astynomikoys. Ta eidame sthn thleorash.

ANTWNAROS: O,ti eixa na pw gi@ ayto to qema to eipa.

PAPAGIANNHS: Paremferhs einai h erwthsh, alla den afora aytoys poy xtyphqhkan, opoioi kai an einai aytoi. Mporeite na moy ejhghsete kyrie Ekproswpe, gia poio logo den fylaxqhke xqes to Ypoyrgeio Apasxolhshs kai paroysiasthkan ta fainomena ta opoia eidame, na xtypane tzamia toy Ypoyrgeioy, tzamia kratikwn aytokinhtwn kai na yparxoyn mono treis astynomikoi ejw apo to Ypoyrgeio, poy htan to sygkekrimeno Ypoyrgeio armodio gia ayth thn poreia;

ANTWNAROS: Den gnwrizw ton akribh ariqmo twn astynomikwn poy htan parontes ekei. En pash periptwsei, oi energeies aytes einai aparadektes kai katadikastees.

PAPAGIANNHS: Shmera to PONTIKI dhmosieyei ena reportaz to opoio den dieceyse o k. Sioyfas symfwna me to opoio stis arxes Febroyarioy o Ypoyrgos Anaptyjhs synanthqhke me ton dieyqynonta symboylo ths Ericsson, ton k. Zhkoy. Mporeite na mas kanete ena sxolio;

ANTWNAROS: O k. Sioyfas den exei logo na diaceysei thn en logw synanthsh, giati eixe anakoinwqei epishmws me Deltio Typoy toy Ypoyrgeioy Anaptyjhs stis 7 Febroyarioy toy 2005; O k. Sioyfas, shmera to prwi bgainontas apo to Megaro Majimoy, eipe epi lejei: ``Nomizw oti exoyme na milhsoyme gia poly sobarotera qemata. Gia to qema ayto mporeite na mpeite sto site toy Ypoyrgeioy, na deite ti egine stis 7 Febroyarioy toy 2005''.

PAPAGIANNHS: Den mas eipe omws, ean ton enhmerwse gia tis ypoklopes.

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw, loipon, - opws exete ypoxrewsh na kanete - thn aparaithth ereyna sxetika me to ti elege h anakoinwsh ekeinhs ths hmeras.

DHMOSIOGRAFOI: Na mas th diabasete.

BLAXOS: Oxi, oxi. Ayto den anakoinwqhke. To jeroyme oti den anakoinwqhke. H erwthsh einai an sth synanthsh ayth h Ericsson, giati an den thn anakoinwse ston kyrio Ypoyrgo, shmainei kyrie Ekproswpe, sygkalych apo thn pleyra ths Ericsson. Einai poly shmantiko na jeroyme ean h Ericsson sth synanthsh Sioyfa toys eipe oti, jerete kati kyrie Sioyfa, caxnoyme na broyme ena qema ypoklopwn sto systhma Ericsson @ Vodafone.

ANTWNAROS: Sthn en logw synanthsh syzhthqhkan osa anaferontai sthn anakoinwsh poy egine prin apo 13 mhnes apo to Ypoyrgeio Anaptyjhs.

BLAXOS: Mia akomh erwthsh: Xqes o k. Zhkoy eipe oti epi hmerwn PASOK zhthqhke na ginei mesw TIM mia nomimh parakoloyqhsh h opoia aforoyse allo qema, nomizw narkwtika h kati allo. Epeidh egine epi hmerwn PASOK nomizw oti exete etoimasei sxolio.

ANTWNAROS: Oxi. Tote den htan kybernhsh h Nea Dhmokratia gia na exw na pw egw otidhpote.

KYRITSHS: Qelw na epistrecw sto prohgoymeno erwthma kyrie Ekproswpe giati den moy apanthsate. Qelw na rwthsw ean apo dw kai pera h Astynomia qa dialyei epishmes poreies kai sygkentrwseis efoson qewrei oti prokaleitai.

ANTWNAROS: Den eipa egw tipota tetoio.

KYRITSHS: Ti eipate; Ma den eipate tipota. Ayto einai to qema.

ANTWNAROS: Ayth einai dikh sas ektimhsh. O,ti eixa na pw, to eipa. Sas
eyxaristw.

KAKALHS: To kartothlefwno toy Dioikhth ths EYP yphrxe sthn arxikh lista poy eixe dwsei h kybernhsh, alla den anaferotan o katoxos toy. Giati h kybernhsh den eixe anaferei to onoma toy k. Koranth enw eixe kanei to idio gia toys arxhgoys twn Enoplwn Dynamewn kai twn Swmatwn Asfaleias; Mhpws qelei na prostatecei to kyros ths yphresias h hqele na thn profylajei apo piqano diasyrmo, giati einai armodia gia thn antikataskopia.

ANTWNAROS: Qa sas parakaloysa na anatrejete sthn hmera poy egine h analytikh enhmerwsh, wste na deite ti akribws eixe doqei sth dhmosiothta. Dioti ekeinh thn hmera ean qymamai kala -kai qymamai poly kala, ayto to lew aplws me thn epifylajh ths eygeneias- den eixan doqei ariqmoi thlefwnwn.

BLAXOS: Onomata eixan doqei. Htan mesa to onoma toy k. Koranth;

ANTWNAROS: Jerete kartothlefwna poy na ekdidontai se onomata;

KAPRALOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, skopeyei h kybernhsh na zhthsei th systash ejetastikhs epitrophs gia to qema twn ypoklopwn;

ANTWNAROS: Apanthsa pro hmerwn. Isxyei h apanthsh moy.

BLAXOS: Mia dieykrinish: Eipate prohgoymenws oti ejw apo to Ypoyrgeio Apasxolhshs den htan oloi apergoi.

ANTWNAROS: Den eipa egw kati tetoio. Parakalw na anatrejete se ayto to opoio eipa molis. Gia to Ypoyrgeio Apasxolhshs moy egine oytws h allws erwthsh me allo periexomeno.

BLAXOS: Yphrxan kai alla stoixeia;.

ANTWNAROS: Ma mporw egw na jerw apo poioys apoteleitai h kaqe omada;

BLAXOS: Pws to lete; Oysiastika yponomeyete to kyros toy ergatikoy kinhmatos. Otan lete oti mesa se mia apergiakh diadhlwsh yparxoyn kai alla stoixeia jena apo to ergatiko kinhma, kati qelete na mas peite.

ANTWNAROS: O,ti eixa na pw to eipa.

GALIATSATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, apo ayto poy mas eipate prohgoymenws, oti dhladh ta kartokinhta thlefwna den mporoyn na entopistoyn@

ANTWNAROS: Den eipa egw ayto.

GALIATSATOS: Den anaferontai se onomata mas eipate.

ANTWNAROS: Oxi. Eipa oti den ekdidontai se onomata.

GALIATSATOS: Den ekdidontai se onomata. Parola ayta mporoyn na entopistoyn. Etsi den einai; Egw epanalambanw to erwthma moy: Egine kapoia ereyna apo thn kybernhsh. Mas eipe malista o k. Boylgarakhs oti eginan 5000 diastayrwseis, 50000 diastayrwseis, 150000 diastayrwseis. Eiste ikanopoihmenoi telika apo thn ereyna poy ekane o k. Boylgarakhs kai oi Yphresies toy;

ANTWNAROS: H ereyna brisketai se ejelijh. Den exw na kanw kanena sxolio gia mia ereyna poy brisketai se ejelijh.

KAKALHS: Exei teleiwsei h prokatarktikh ereyna kyrie Ekproswpe.

GALIATSATOS: H dikastikh ereyna brisketai se ejelijh.

ANTWNAROS: H ereyna einai synolo poy apoteleitai apo diafora yposynola kai brisketai, opws sas eipa, se ejelijh.

KAKALHS: Exei teleiwsei to prwto meros, ean moy epitrepete, kai exei diataxqei diwjh kata agnwstwn. Ara, den isxyei ayto poy lete.

ANTWNAROS: Isxyei apolytws ayto poy sas lew.

BLAXOS: Mporw na zhthsw mia dieykrinish akomh;

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw.

BLAXOS: Htan se gnwsh ths kybernhshs h energeia ths Vodafone na zhthsei kai na parei stis 16 Martioy 2005, ta 51 ``ntams'' apo thn Ericsson, ta opoia ekeinh thn wra h Ericsson ta anelye kai malista mesa apo thn analysh eixe brei kai ton trito pompo;

ANTWNAROS: Den prokeitai na sxoliasw tipote poy exei sxesh me th dikastikh ereyna.

BLAXOS: Me sygxwreite, alla to afhnete anoixto omws ayto to pragma, etsi; Na htan dhladh se gnwsh twn armodiwn Ypoyrgwn.

ANTWNAROS: Profanws den exete antilhfqei ayto to opoio exw pei apo thn arxh@

BLAXOS: Egw lew me ton tropo poy apantate, to afhnete anoixto.

ANTWNAROS: Afhste me na oloklhrwsw thn frash moy. Ayto poy exw pei apo thn arxh, ejakoloyqei na isxyei. Stis 11 Martioy h kybernhsh edwse ola ta stoixeia ekei opoy qesmika eprepe na ta dwsei: Sth Dikaiosynh. Apo kei kai pera h kybernhsh den empleketai. Teleia kai payla.

IWANNOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, syndeetai h allagh pleyshs se o,ti afora thn agora 10 epipleon aeroskafwn typoy F16 me thn ypoqesh twn ypoklopwn;

ANTWNAROS: Oxi, me kanenan tropo.

PAPADHMHTRIOY: Eidame proxqes ton Prwqypoyrgo na afhnei anoixto paraqyro gia paroxes. Akoloyqhse o k. Roysopoylos, shmera o k. Alogoskoyfhs. Ejetazei h kybernhsh to endexomeno na dwsei paroxes stoys xamhlomisqoys h toys syntajioyxoys;

ANTWNAROS: Opws sas eipe o k. Roysopoylos kai dieykrinise peraiterw xqes se megalh synenteyjh thn opoia edwse o k. Alogoskoyfhs, to noikokyrema twn dhmosiwn logistikwn poy parelhfqhsan apo thn shmerinh kybernhsh se poly asxhmh katastash, den einai aytoskopos. To noikokyrema ths oikonomias toy topoy mas, an qelete exei apodektes ton kaqe ena Ellhna kai thn kaqe Ellhnida jexwrista. Oi polites ayths ths xwras einai aytoi poy se telikh analysh wfeloyntai.

SIDERHS: Wraio to maqhma poy mas kanete. Lete ta aytonohta pantote, alla den gnwrizete xronodiagramma opws qa eprepe na kanei mia ypeyqynh kybernhsh gia to pote oi polites blepete na apolambanoyn ayta poy eseis toys yposxeste;

ANTWNAROS: H erwthsh sas;

SIDERHS: Einai mia yposxesh sto mellon.

ANTWNAROS: H erwthsh sas;

SIDERHS: Pote; Xronodiagramma yparxei;

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh bebaiws kai exei qesei xronodiagrammata. Exei qesei ws stoxo th meiwsh toy elleimmatos katw apo to 3%, ws to telos toy 2006. Me thn epiteyjh aytoy toy stoxoy, tote pragmatopoieitai to noikokyrema twn dhmosiwn logistikwn apo to opoio wfeloyntai kai qa wfelhqoyn oloi oi Ellhnes polites. Ayto einai poly safes.

SIDERHS: Gia ta F-16, an den kanw laqos, eipe o k. Meimarakhs oti einai tetarths genias, ta kainoyrgia poy qa paroyme. Ta prohgoymena, den htan tetarths genias. Yparxei politiko problhma;

ANTWNAROS: Den mporw na sxoliasw texnika qemata aeroplanwn.

SIDERHS: Mporoyme na mplejoyme, giati exei sxesh me tis sygxrones anagkes kai tis sygxrones yphresiakes kai epixeirhsiakes dynatothtes.

ANTWNAROS: Einai enas texnikos oros ton opoio efoson xrhsimopoiei o armodios ypoyrgos, einai apolytws orqos.

SIDERHS: Den htan omws orqws, h prohgoymenh agora.

ANTWNAROS: Kapws sygxeete ta pragmata.

SIDERHS: Kaqoloy.

ANTWNAROS: H epomenh genia prepei na einai etoimh gia na mporeis na thn paralabeis.

SIDERHS: Ta Eurofighter htan etoima. Apla, prytaneysan oi politikoi logoi kai apeyqynqhkate stis HPA.

ANTWNAROS: Qa moy kanete erwthsh; Mexri twra den exete kanei erwthsh ep` aytoy.

SIDERHS: Yparxei politiko problhma me ton prohgoymeno ypoyrgo Amynas, poy dialeje perasmenhs genias aeroskafh;

ANTWNAROS: H prohgoymenh apofash toy KYSEA @parakalw na anatrejete stis anakoinwseis toy KYSEA- htan omofwnh. Mh dhmioyrgeite kai mh prospaqeite na dhmioyrghsete entypwseis, ekei poy den yparxoyn.

SIDERHS: Opote yparxei olh h politikh eyqynh sthn kybernhsh gia thn prohgoymenh agora.

ANTWNAROS: Den katalabainw. Pragmatika den mporw na sas parakoloyqhsw.

IWANNOY: Lete oti sto telos toy 2006 yparxei xronodiagramma ths kybernhshs oti oloi oi Ellhnes qa wfelhqoyn apo to noikokyrema; Oysiastika lete, oti mexri telos toy 2006, qa exei epiteyxqei h meiwsh toy elleimmatos katw apo to 3% kai milate gia noikokyrema.

ANTWNAROS: Einai enas sygkekrimenos stoxos, ton opoio exei qesei h shmerinh kybernhsh.

IWANNOY: Wstoso h kybernhsh apofeygei na milhsei gia paroxes h gia sygkekrimenes desmeyseis. Toylaxiston egw ayto katalabainw. Giati;

ANTWNAROS: Oi stoxoi bebaiws einai gia na epitygxanontai. H shmerinh kybernhsh sthn ws twra politeia ths exei apodeijei me megalh safhneia oti oxi mono petyxainei alla proxwraei kai pera apo toys stoxoys poy exei qesei. Parola tayta mia sobarh kybernhsh, qa prepei prwta na perimenei thn epiteyjh twn sygkekrimenwn stoxwn toys opoioys exei qesei kai oi opoioi einai poly shmantikoi, prin analabei sygkekrimenes desmeyseis. Ta ypoloipa anhkoyn sth sfaira toy laikismoy gia ton opoio den diakrinetai h sygkekrimenh kybernhsh alla alloi.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Epeita apo th xqesinh apofash toy KYSEA, na mhn proxwrhsei sthn agora twn 10 epipleon maxhtikwn F-16, blepete eseis amerikanikh dysareskeia, opws anaferei h AYRIANH sto prwtoselido ths;

ANTWNAROS: Qa hqela na sas pw, oti ayto htan ena dikaiwma proairesews to opoio eixe h ellhnikh politeia, dhladh na promhqeytei se mia sygkekrimenh timh 10 epipleon aeroskafh toy idioy typoy. Den htan kamia desmeysh thn opoia eixe. Einai dikaiwma, toy opoioy den ekane xrhsh opws exei dikaiwma na mhn kanei xrhsh. Den yparxei tipote allo. Den blepw kamia apolytws dysareskeia. Analytika anaferqhke sto qema xqes o k. Roysopoylos. Qewrw oti ejeqese me apolyth safhneia toys logoys gia toys opoioys den egine xrhsh toy sygkekrimenoy dikaiwmatos. Den exw tipote na prosqesw.

PAPAGIANNHS: Mia erwthsh sxetika me th synanthsh poy eixe o Prwqypoyrgos me ton Grammatea ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas ths Neas Dhmokratias k. Stayroy. Symfwna me plhrofories o k. Stayroy metefere thn anhsyxia meroys ths K.O. ths Neas Dhmokratias gia thn epikoinwniakh politikh ths kybernhshs. Gi` ayto kai elhfqh apofash shmera, oi boyleytes na ekdramoyn sthn perifereia ta Sabbatokyriaka kai kata th diarkeia twn prosexwn eortwn. Mporeite na moy peite an fwtografizoyn aytoi oi boyleytes esas kai ton k. Roysopoylo, ws pros thn adynamia ths epikoinwniakhs politikhs;

ANTWNAROS: Egw den briskw kamia adynamia sthn epikoinwniakh politikh. Den jerw an me fwtografizei kanenas, fwtografizomai allwste arketa syxna opws gnwrizete. Me fwtografizoyn stis efhmerides, den me kolakeyoyn oles oi fwtografies, parola tayta, den diamartyromai kaqoloy. Gnwrizw osa eipe o k. Stayroy ejerxomenos apo to Megaro Majimoy, ta opoia apeikonisan to periexomeno ths syzhthshs poy eixe me ton Prwqypoyrgo. Prokeitai gia mia apo tis polles syzhthseis poy exoyn kai o k. Stayroy alla kai alla stelexh toy kommatos ths Neas Dhmokratias me ton Prwqypoyrgo se takta xronika diasthmata.

KYRITSHS: Opws eipate, to dikaiwma proaireshs gia thn agora 10 epipleon F-16 htan aplws ena dikaiwma, to opoio h kybernhsh den askhse. Parola ayta, eixe zhthsei mia paratash dyo mhnwn gia na to skeftei. H paratash ayth, elhge xqes nomizw. Qa mporoyse kallista na afhsei thn proqesmia na parelqei. Parathroyme to asynhqisto fainomeno na synedriazei to KYSEA kai anti na leei ti qa kanei, leei ti den kanei. Ayto den exei janaginei. Giati eprepe na synedriasei to KYSEA gia na apofasisei thn mh energopoihsh ths OPTION. Den synhqizetai ayto. Dinei kapoio mhnyma;

ANTWNAROS: Kanena apolytws mhnyma. Sth xqesinh enhmerwsh o k. Roysopoylos ejeqese toys dyo logoys gia toys opoioys lhfqhke h sygkekrimenh apofash, dhladh na mhn ginei xrhsh toy sygkekrimenoy dikaiwmatos kai ejhghse poia einai h qesh ths kybernhshs panw s` ayto.

KYRITSHS: Qelw na rwthsw ean qa ginei dieqnhs diagwnismos gia ta aeroskafh tetarths genias opws eixate pei proeklogika kai an qa paei h symbash otan katalhjei sth Boylh, opws eipe pro hmerwn o k. Meimarakhs.

ANTWNAROS: Isxyoyn osa exoyn pei oi armodioi ypoyrgoi.

BLAXOS: Ena sxolio gia ton Albano ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn, o opoios xqes, se synenteyjh Typoy, eipe oti se periptwsh poy dixotomhqei to Kossyfopedio, h Albania den eggyatai ta synora toso toy Kossyfopedioy oso kai twn Skopiwn, prwhn Gioygkoslabikhs Dhmokratias, to albaniko tmhma. Yparxoyn antidraseis apo to Mayroboynio, apo Serbia, h Ellada einai meros toy problhmatos.

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw na apeyqynqeite sto Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn. O k. Koymoytsakos ayth th stigmh kanei thn enhmerwsh twn diplwmatikwn syntaktwn.

GALIATSATOS: Symmerizetai h kybernhsh thn apoch oti to qema twn ypoklopwn einai hssonos sobarothtas;

ANTWNAROS: Opws gnwrizete, h kybernhsh einai ekeinh h opoia apo thn arxh anedeije kai paroysiase se baqos to sobaro qema twn ypoklopwn. Yparxoyn sygkekrimenoi xarakthrismoi toys opoioys exoyn kanei oi armodioi ypoyrgoi. Einai ena poly sobaro qema.

SARANTAKOS: Sthn khdeia toy Milosebits qa parastei kapoios apo thn pleyra ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs;

ANTWNAROS: Den exw ypoch moy kati tetoio.

BLAXOS: Eipate oti to qema twn ypoklopwn einai mia para poly sobarh ypoqesh.

ANTWNAROS: To exei pei edw o k. Roysopoylos kai isxyei apolyta.

BLAXOS: Ara kakws eipe o k. Sioyfas oti exoyme na asxolhqoyme me sobarotera pragmata apo oti to qema twn ypoklopwn;

ANTWNAROS: Den eipe ayto o k. Sioyfas. Qelete na sas diabasw ti rwthqhke apo dhmosiografo o k. Sioyfas ejerxomenos toy Megaroy Majimoy; ``Kyrie ypoyrge, eixate prosfata mia synanthsh, opws anagrafoyn dhmosieymata, me ton Presbh ths Soyhdias kai me ton dieyqynth ths Ericsson;'' Kai apanta o k. Sioyfas: ``Nomizw oti exoyme na milhsoyme gia para poly sobarotera qemata. Gia to qema ayto mporeite na mpeite sto site toy ypoyrgeioy kai na deite ti egine stis 7 Febroyarioy toy 2005.'' Den egine kanenas ypainigmos peri ypoklopwn, sth sygkekrimenh erwthsh. Gia mia synanthsh me enan presbh ton rwthsan. Amfiballete oti o k. Sioyfas eixe shmantikotera pragmata na sxoliasei dhmosia apo mia synanthsh me enan presbh kai enan dieyqynonta symboylo mias etaireias;

PAPAGIANNHS: Oxi mias etaireias. Ths Ericsson.

ANTWNAROS: Mias etaireias. Den egine kanenas ypainigmos. Den teqhke kan to qema.

BLAXOS: Ara, mas lete oti h Ericsson sygkalyce thn istoria twn ypoklopwn ekeino to diasthma poy synanthqhke me ton@

ANTWNAROS: Den exw na kanw kanena sxolio, oson afora th dikastikh ereyna poy brisketai se ejelijh gia to sygkekrimeno qema.

BLAXOS: Yparxoyn diafores etaireies poy exoyn parei apo to ellhniko kratos, apo thn kybernhsh adeia leitoyrgias, metexoyn se mia diadikasia poy einai oi ypoklopes, metajy aytwn kai toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Den gennatai qema gi aytes tis etaireies kai den apasxolei thn kybernhsh ean aytes oi etaireies leitoyrgoyn me nomimo tropo;

ANTWNAROS: Erwthsh moy kanete h sxolio;

BLAXOS: Bebaiws, einai safestath h erwthsh.

ANTWNAROS: Den ginomai dikasths.

BLAXOS: Kybernate, omws kai eiste armodioi gia na kinhsete diadikasies enantion twn etaireiwn poy den throyn toy nomoys.

ANTWNAROS: Sas lew gia mia akomh fora: H kybernhsh apo thn prwth stigmh ekane ekeino poy eprepe na kanei qesmika. Phge to qema sth dikaiosynh. Otan oloklhrwqei h dikastikh ereyna, tote endexomenws na apodoqoyn eyqynes.

BLAXOS: Einai allo ayto. Edw yparxei qema gia tis etaireies. Yparxoyn dyo etaireies poy phran adeia apo thn ellhnikh kybernhsh kai apo to ellhniko kratos gia na leitoyrghsoyn. Oi etaireies aytes metexoyn se mia diadikasia poy einai oi paranomes ypoklopes, synantioyntai oi epikefalhs kai den lene tipota. Yparxei qema gi aytes tis etaireies h oxi;

ANTWNAROS: Sas anakalw sthn tajh dioti para thn epaneilhmmenh anafora moy sto sygkekrimeno qema, ejakoloyqeite na epimenete kai na isxyrizeste oti synantwntai oi epikefalhs twn etaireiwn me ypoyrgoys kai oi ypoyrgoi ``den lene tipota''.

BLAXOS: Oxi, den lene stoys ypoyrgoys tipota. Den lew oti oi ypoyrgoi den lene tipota. Lew oti oi dieyqyntes aytwn twn etaireiwn den enhmerwnoyn ton ypoyrgo, dhladh, ton k. Sioyfa, oti jerete kati, caxnoyme ypoklopes sto systhma mas.

ANTWNAROS: Sas parakalw na sygkrinete tis hmeromhnies. Sygxeete diafora pragmata.

KAKALHS: Epeidh h kybernhsh parapempei syxna teleytaia toys ergazomenoys stis kalyteres meres twn epixeirhsewn, ta shmerina stoixeia apo 80 eishgmenes anaferoyn oti ta kerdh toys etrexan me 34% to 2005. Ap` oti einai gnwsto oi etaireies exoyn dwsei mono tis syllogikes symbaseis, den exoyn dwsei kati parapanw apo to merisma anaptyjhs poy yposxontan h kybernhsh. Na to zhthsoyn oi ergazomenoi apo thn kybernhsh;

ANTWNAROS: Molis prin apo merikes hmeres, poly prosfata epikriqhkan orismenes eishgmenes etaireies epeidh edwsan ejtra posa stoys ergazomenoys toys. Prepei na apofasisete telika ti qelete.

KAKALHS: Tote mporeite na moy peite poies etaireies exoyn dwsei kerdh kai posa;

ANTWNAROS: Den einai dikh moy doyleia ayto.

KAKALHS: Pws, kalliergeite ena paramyqi.

ANTWNAROS: Qa sas parakaloysa kai qa sas proteina na kanete mia ereyna se aytes tis etaireies stis opoies anafereste wste na diapistwsete an kai ti ``bonus'' dinoyn stoys ergazomenoys ekei.

KAKALHS: Mporw na sas pw gia thn Eqnikh kai ta ELPE. Jerete eseis alles;

ANTWNAROS: Sas parakalw na apeyqynqeite kai se alles eishgmenes idiwtikes etaireies ektos ean exete kapoia dyskolia epafhs mazi toys, poy den fantazomai oti qa thn exete. Alla, rwthste toys, gia na deite. Gnwrizw oti se oses idiwtikes etaireies exoyn kerdh oi ergazomenoi wfeloyntai me poikiloys tropoys.

KAKALHS: Mas fernete th lista.

ANTWNAROS: Oxi, den einai dikh moy doyleia ayto. Einai dhmosiografikh ergasia.

SIDERHS: Giati einai idiwtikh etaireia, idiwtikopoihsate ton OTE kai den to phrame prefa;

ANTWNAROS: Eipa kai se idiwtikes etaireies. Milhsame gia eishgmenes. Mhn sygxeete ta pragmata.

SIDERHS: Ton OTE h eisagwgh toy sto xrhmatisthrio den ton kanei idiwtikh etaireia.

ANTWNAROS: O OTE leitoyrgei kai prepei na leitoyrgei me idiwtikooikonomika krithria.

SIDERHS: Kai prepei na exete apoch gia to an dinontai tetoies yperogkes ayjhseis se sygkekrimeno ariqmo stelexwn.

ANTWNAROS: Ston OTE doqhkan se 1.200 peripoy atoma tetoies ayjhseis. Ton qewreite mikro ariqmo;

SIDERHS: Para poly mikro ariqmo ton qewroyme. Alla, den exei shmasia ti qewroyme. Qewroyme oti einai dhmosios organismos kai yparxei epilektikh politikh.

ANTWNAROS: Lypamai alla exete esfalmenh antimetwpish kai proseggish gia to ti perilambanei pia to dhmosio. Exete meinei arketes dekaeties pisw.

LEONTITSH: H kybernhsh ti apanta stoys syntajioyxoys poy edarhsan xqes apo ta MAT; Oti htan epitiqemenes omades kai sthn prospaqeia apwqhshs toys se ayta ta gerontakia poy ta akoysame sta radiofwna -giati den pisteyw oti den ta akoyse kai h kybernhsh- poy toys ebrizan kai toys edernan. Ti toys apanta loipon; Oti me bash thn plhroforhsh poy eixe elaban ayto poy xreiazotan giati htan epitiqemenes omades;

ANTWNAROS: H dhlwsh poy ekana, nwritera, isxyei sto akeraio. Ean, mesa sthn anampoympoyla ths stigmhs, kapoios ypesth kapoia zhmia, den yparxei kamia amfibolia oti ekfrazw th lyph moy. Alla, h dhlwsh thn opoia ekana ejakoloyqei na isxyei.

KYRITSHS: Opoios efage jylo sthn anampoympoyla ths stigmhs qa prepei na kinhqei kata toy ypoyrgeioy Dhmosias Tajews h qa frontisei h kybernhsh na breqoyn kai na timwrhqoyn oi ypeyqynoi;

ANTWNAROS: Sas to exw janapei: Den dinw nomikes symboyles se ayth thn aiqoysa. Pote kai se kanenan.

KYRITSHS: Oxi nomikh symboylh. Ean prokeitai h kybernhsh na kinhqei.

ANTWNAROS: Eipa o,ti eixa na pw gia to sygkekrimeno qema. To qema qewreitai lhjan.

KYRITSHS: To oti o OTE exei xasei to 25% ths agoras, basei poias logikhs dinetai bonus. Eseis mas eixate pei oti oi etaireies poy den pane kala kai exoyn sxesh me to kratos den mporoyn na moirazoyn bonus. Edw exoyme 25% meion.

ANTWNAROS: Ayto exoyme pei;

KYRITSHS: Na moy janapeite, loipon, o,ti exete pei.

ANTWNAROS: Me to nomosxedio peri DEKO tiqentai proypoqeseis leitoyrgies gia tis elleimmatikes etaireies. Oi alles etaireies, opws o OTE den einai elleimmatikes etaireies.

KYRITSHS: Paei na ginei, omws.

ANTWNAROS: Sas parakalw poly. Thn apajia poy ekfrazete gia proswpa kai etaireies, den mporw na th symmeristw.

ANTWNAROS: Oi eishgmenes epixeirhseis leitoyrgoyn me idiwtikooikonomika krithria. Kai ean qeloyme na pane mprosta oi epixeirhseis, pros ofelos twn katanalwtwn, kai na dhmioyrgoyn nees qeseis ergasias, tote prepei na leitoyrgoyn me idiwtikooikonomika krithria. Ean ayto den tairiazei sthn ideologia h thn proseggish orismenwn, ayto einai asfalws dikaiwma toys. Me th diafora oti oi Ellhnes polites epelejan th sygkekrimenh kybernhsh na efarmosei ena sygkekrimeno programma oikonomikhs politikhs. Opws jerete, oi Ellhnes polites kaqe tessera xronia exoyn th dynatothta na ekfrazontai sthn kalph. Emeis eimaste bebaioi oti h epityxia toy oikonomikoy programmatos mas qa einai enas apo toys basikoys syntelestes poy qa symballoyn sthn epaneklogh toy kommatos ths Neas Dhmokratias.

KYRITSHS: Sygnwmh, ta krithria ths agoras einai dhladh na ameibontai kala 1000 stelexh kai na yparxoyn 10 xiliades sklabakia me elastika wraria. Gia na katalabw. Giati ayta einai dyo pragmata: Einai ta stelexh kai h plempa.

ANTWNAROS: Den prokeitai na sas akoloyqhsw stoys apajiwtikoys xarakthrismoys poy kanete gia omades ergazomenwn.

KYRITSHS: Afoy toys exete kocei ola ta dikaiwmata stoys neoproslambanomenoys. Egw to ekana ayto;

ANTWNAROS: Giati apajiwnete apofaseis tis opoies exoyn labei oi ergazomenoi toy sygkekrimenoy organismoy me megalh pleiochfia; Mhpws giati den sas aresoyn aytes oi apofaseis;

KAKALHS: Polles epixeirhseis dinoyn bonus me thn proypoqesh na mhn efarmostoyn oi syllogikes symbaseis. H kybernhsh sthrizei kai enqarrynei ayth thn politikh;

ANTWNAROS: Den ypeiserxomeqa sth leitoyrgia twn idiwtikwn epixeirhsewn. Ayto prepei na to katalabete mia kai kalh. Oi idiwtikes epixeirhseis leitoyrgoyn kai edw, opws leitoyrgoyn oi idiwtikes epixeirhseis se olo ton kosmo.

KAKALHS: Ara, toys lete na ypografoyn kai atomikes symbaseis, ayto mas lete. Ayth th stash kratate.

ANTWNAROS: Kai o k. Alogoskoyfhs kai o k. Roysopoylos, kai egw anaferqhkame prin apo mia ebdomada peripoy sto qema twn syllogikwn symbasewn. H topoqethsh ths kybernhshs einai safhs. Den epidexetai kamia apolytws amfisbhthsh.

Sas eyxaristw.

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