Greek Government Press Briefing, 98-04-07

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 7 Aprilioy 1998

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas. Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

SOYGLERHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, stis 12.00, me entolh toy k. Shmith apo to Londino arxise syskech me epikefalhs ton Ypoyrgo Dhmosias Dioikhshs k. Papadopoylo kai alloys Ypoyrgoys, me aformh th syzhthsh toy nomosxedioy gia thn O.A., poy arxizei shmera to brady. Exete kati na mas peite; Giati egine ayto to "mini" Ypoyrgiko Symboylio kai poioi einai oi logoi poy epebalan ayth th syskech ypo ton k. Papadopoylo; Proekyce kapoio problhma;

REPPAS: Pragmati, einai se ejelijh synedriash kybernhtikwn kai kommatikwn stelexwn. Antikeimeno ths syzhthshs einai to nomosxedio gia thn ejygiansh ths O.A. Prepei na sas pw oti einai megalh epityxia to oti gia to qema toy kanonismoy ergasias exei prokycei symfwnia metajy Dioikhshs kai ergazomenwn. Ta shmeia sta opoia den exei, ews ayth thn wra, epiteyxqei symptwsh apocewn aforoyn ena tmhma twn ergasiakwn sxesewn h to misqologiko kaqestws. Pisteyoyme kai ayta, kaqws qa proxwra h syzhthsh sth Boylh tis treis aytes hmeres, na anadeixqoyn ws qemata shmantika, na ginoyn pio katanohtes oi qeseis ths Kybernhshs kai telika h chfish toy nomosxedioy na odhghsei se mia grhgorh efarmogh toy nomoy, pleon, prokeimenoy to syntomotero dynato na proxwrhsoyme sth swthria toy eqnikoy aerometaforea. Gnwrizete oti einai to prwto megalo bhma, h prwth tomh, h prwth shmantikh diarqrwtikh allagh thn opoia prowqei h Kybernhsh s' ayton ton tomea. Logiko einai, loipon, na yparxoyn taktikes synergasies twn armodiwn paragontwn, kybernhtikwn kai kommatikwn, gia thn antimetwpish twn qematwn poy exoyn sxesh me ayth thn politikh kai nomoqetikh prwtoboylia.

KOGIANNHS: Poioi metexoyn akribws qa mas peite;

REPPAS: Mporw na sas pw ta onomata: Arxizoyme apo ton Ypoyrgo Dikaiosynhs, ton k. Giannopoylo, o k. Papadopoylos, o k. Papantwnioy, o k. Papaiwannoy, o k. Prwtopappas, o k. Mantelhs, o k. Pasxalidhs, o k. Kosmidhs, o k. Foyntas (Grammateas ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas), o k. Manikas, o k. Kanellopoylos, o k. R. Spyropoylos, o k. Gkesoylhs. Nomizw oti den pareleica kapoion.

KAKABAS: H ka Papandreoy einai;

REPPAS: Oxi. Einai osoi sas eipa.

KAMPOYRAKHS: O k. Gkesoylhs ws ti einai; Einai eishghths etsi;

REPPAS: Akribws. Einai eishghths.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, egkrinei h Kybernhsh th xqesinh stash toy Anaplhrwth Ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn enanti toy Proedroy ths Boylhs kai an prokeitai h Kybernhsh na "mazecei", opws zhthse o Proedros ths Boylhs, ton k. Mperns;

REPPAS: O Ypoyrgos Anaplhrwths Ejwterikwn askei me apolyth epityxia ta kaqhkonta toy. Asfalws, exei thn plhrh empistosynh toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Paramenei stelexos ths Kybernhshs. Ejeqese thn politikh ths Kybernhshs me thn topoqethsh toy. Den yparxei opoiodhpote qema. Apo ekei kai pera, ayto to opoio prepei na meinei apo th xqesinh syzhthsh einai o ypeyqynos tropos me ton opoio to Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn xeirizetai ta qemata twn ellhnoamerikanikwn sxesewn. Kai pisteyw oti s' ayton ton tomea to Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn -ta apotelesmata, allwste, to martyroyn- exei na epideijei mia epityxh drasthriothta. Ayto prepei na to anagnwrisoyme.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Egkrinei, dhladh, h Kybernhsh ayth th stash toy Anaplhrwth Ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn enanti toy Proedroy ths Boylhs; Th stash toy, rwtw.

REPPAS: Sas eipa oti apanthse se sxetikh erwthsh o k. Papandreoy kai eipe tis apoceis ths Kybernhshs.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Gyrise thn plath toy kai efyge. Exei janaginei ayto;

REPPAS: Eixe oloklhrwqei h syzhthsh ths epikairhs erwthshs kai o k. Papandreoy afoy aneptyje tis apoceis ths Kybernhshs, den eixe logo na parameinei sthn aiqoysa.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kai sto deytero erwthma den moy apanthsate.

REPPAS: Parakalw, poio einai to erwthma, k. Stamatopoyle;

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ayto poy eipe o Proedros ths Boylhs "na mazecete" ton Mperns.

REPPAS: Apanthsa s' ayto, legontas gia to qema twn ellhnoamerikanikwn sxesewn -kai antilambaneste oti s' ayto entassetai kai h sxesh toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn me ton ekproswpo twn HPA sthn Ellada, ton Amerikano presbh- oti einai sxeseis tetoies, oi opoies deixnoyn pws me syneto tropo prowqeitai h ellhnoamerikanikh synennohsh h h synergasia metajy twn dyo xwrwn.

BLAXOS: Yparxei dysareskeia sthn Kybernhsh gia thn antidrash toy k. Kaklamanh, xqes, sth Boylh; Einai mesa sta kaqhkonta toy;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete oti den sxoliazoyme pote dhlwseis toy k. Kaklamanh, doqentos oti o k. Kaklamanhs einai politeiakos paragontas. Alla, me aformh thn erwthsh sas kai gia na mh qewrhsete oti qelw na ypekfygw, mporw na pw oti oxi mono den yparxei dysareskeia, alla o rolos toy Proedroy ths Boylhs einai, ek twn pragmatwn, sebastos. Idiaitera, poy o k. Kaklamanhs einai ena politiko kai kommatiko stelexos me idiaitero kyros. Antilambaneste oti symballei sto na leitoyrgei swsta h Boylh kai, bebaiws, bohqaei kai thn politikh me thn idiothta toy stelexoys toy kommatos. Den yparxei opoiodhpote tetoio qema. Einai allo to ena qema, allo to allo.

BITSENTZOY: Qelw na rwthsw an synhqizetai o Proedros ths Boylhs na ekfrazei proswpikes gnwmes, xwris na katebei apo thn edra ths Boylhs, an synhqizetai na parembainei sthn oysia ths syzhthshs kai an synhqizetai o Proedros ths Boylhs, poy ekfrazei kai to kybernwn komma, na pairnei th qesh toy erwtwntos boyleyth, sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh toy k. Kolozof, toy KKE.

REPPAS: Ayto einai kati poy den problepetai apo ton Kanonismo, einai kati to opoio den ginetai kai, bebaiws, sas eipa oti h politikh ths Kybernhshs ekfrasthke apo thn topoqethsh toy armodioy Ypoyrgoy. Den yparxei opoiadhpote amfibolia gi' ayto. Oson afora twra ayto to idio to symban, gnwrizete ki eseis poly kala oti to Swma ths Boylhs einai poly zwntano kai oi syzhthseis poy ginontai ekei pairnoyn, polles fores, mia allh diastash, ena idiaitero xrwma. Alla, asfalws, ayto to opoio egine den antapokrinetai sta osa problepei o Kanonismos. Gi' ayto den yparxei kamia amfibolia.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, o k. Papandreoy eipe, xqes, oti zoyme se mia dhmokratikh xwra kai oti o k. Mperns mporei na kanei kai na leei o,ti qelei. Edw eseis, proxqes, eixate pei oti oi apoceis toy k. Mperns se o,ti afora ena eidiko qema, ta ergasiaka sth xwra mas, tis dikes toy apoceis kala einai na tis krathsei gia ton eayton toy. Ti apo ta dyo isxyei se o,ti afora thn Kybernhsh; To oti o Mperns kanei o,ti qelei h oti o,ti leei den prepei na to leei, prepei na to krataei gia ton eayton toy;

REPPAS: To ena den einai se antifash me to allo. Qa elega, oti briskontai sthn idia eyqeia. Kai ejhgoymai eyqys amesws: Asfalws, o Amerikanos presbhs, prowqwntas ta symferonta ths xwras toy mporei, kinoymenos entos twn plaisiwn toy nomoy kai toy Syntagmatos ths xwras mas, na anaptyssei ta epixeirhmata toy. Ayto einai to ena qema. To allo qema einai to oti enw ekeinos anaptyssei tis apoceis toy emeis exoyme dikaiwma na probaloyme tis dikes mas apoceis. Oyai kai alimono! Den einai aparaithto na symfwnoyme panta. Para polles fores, gia diafora qemata, prokyptoyn diaforetikes apoceis. Ayto to opoio prepei na diathrhsoyme einai afenos h eleyqeria kinhsewn, to dhmokratiko dikaiwma, poy einai dedomeno, wste oi diplwmates na askoyn ta kaqhkonta toys, ypakoyontas, bebaiws, stoys periorismoys toy ellhnikoy Syntagmatos kai twn ellhnikwn nomwn kai afeteroy ki emeis na sxoliazoyme tis qeseis aytes, proballontas thn politikh ths Ellhnikhs Kybernhshs sta shmeia ekeina poy pisteyoyme oti prepei na ginei ayto. To idio den kanoyn kai oi Ellhnes presbeis sto ejwteriko; O Ellhnas presbhs stis HPA, poly perissotero poy s'ayth th megalh xwra yparxei omogeneiako stoixeio se megalh ektash, den synergazetai me toys Ellhnes omogeneis; Den anaptyssoyn drasthriothtes; Den organwnoyn ekdhlwseis; Den diatypwnoyn apoceis; Oi apoceis aytes den einai pantote symfwnes me thn politikh twn HPA. Syxnotata kataggelletai h politikh twn HPA kai apo toys Ellhnes diplwmates kai apo alloys paragontes, ellhnikhs katagwghs, poy diabioyn nomima sth megalh ayth xwra. Ayto den synista kanena problhma. H arxh ths dhmokratikhs nomimopoihshs epitrepei ayth th symperifora. Kai nomizw oti prepei mesa apo th synennohsh kai thn epikoinwnia na epidiwketai h symfwnia kai h synergasia. Aytos einai o stoxos olwn.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: To gegonos oti enas politeiakos paragontas, opws o Proedros ths Boylhs, kai malista dhmosiws to leei, oti o k. Mperns kineitai ektos twn plaisiwn, apasxolei, problhmatizei thn Kybernhsh;

REPPAS: Gia th stash h ton tropo poy askei ta kaqhkonta toy o k. Mperns, exei gnwmh to Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn. Ta qemata ayta ta xeirizetai to Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn kai ta xeirizetai me epityxh tropo. Oson afora twra tis apoceis toy k. Kaklamanh, qa moy epitrecete na sas parakalesw na mhn epimenete na sxoliazoyme tis topoqethseis enos politeiakoy paragonta. Antilambaneste pws ayto ekfeygei toy plaisioy ths politikhs enhmerwshs. Einai kati to opoio prepei na kanoyme gia ton Proedro ths Dhmokratias kai gia ton Proedro ths Boylhs, gia logoys profaneis. Den prepei na proxwrhsoyme se mia syzhthsh epi twn apocewn toys, doqentos oti briskontai yperanw ths maxomenhs politikhs h ths kommatikhs antiparaqeshs oi politeiakoi paragontes. Kai ayto prepei na to sebastoyme kai na deixnoyme sthn prajh oti to sebomaste.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Kati akoma. Egw qa parakalesw esas na moy apantate se ayta poy sas erwtw kai oxi se ayta poy den sas erwtw. Kai gia na ginw pio sygkekrimenos: kineitai entos twn plaisiwn o k. Mperns, otan se synadelfo, poy brisketai se ayth edw thn aiqoysa toy briefing, se synenteyjh sthn "KAQHMERINH" dhlwnei oti qa apeyqynei dhmosies apeiles se o,ti afora to Kypriako; Kineitai entos twn plaisiwn o k. Mperns otan leei ayta ta pragmata;

REPPAS: Kyrie Mpogiopoyle, opws sas epitrepw na diatypwnete tis erwthseis sas kata ton tropo poy eseis nomizete, qa moy epitrecete na dinw ki egw apanthseis kata ton tropo poy egw epilegw. Den qa moy epiballete eseis tis apanthseis poy qa dwsw. Eseis exete dikaiwma na ypobalete erwthseis. Mexri aytoy toy shmeioy. Tipota peran toy shmeioy aytoy. Deyteron...

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, mia parembash parakalw.

REPPAS: Parakalw, exw to logo.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Den moy ton dinete gia ligo;

REPPAS: Oxi, den sas ton dinw. Asfalws, den sas dinw to logo twra. Meta...

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Qa epanelqw tote.

REPPAS: Eidate, loipon; To qetete san na einai apeilh. Xara moy einai na epanelqete kai xara moy einai na sas akoyw. Alla na ypoballete erwthseis.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Den exw proqesh na sas apeilhsw, k. Ypoyrge.

REPPAS: Polles fores h glwssa einai asyneidhth. Mas periexei kai mas prodidei, k. Mpogiopoyle.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Mh fobaste, k. Ypoyrge!

REPPAS: Me... "kaqhsyxasate" twra, poy eipate oti den prepei na sas fobamai kai niwqw poly pio hremos ki egw. Loipon, prepei na pw oti kaqenas ekfrazei tis dikes toy apoceis h tis apoceis ths politikhs ths xwras toy, otan einai presbhs mias xwras. Den dianooymai oti oi presbeis mias xwras qa ekfrazoyn thn politikh mias allhs xwras. Otan ayto brisketai entos twn nomimwn plaisiwn den antilambanomai poio problhma dhmioyrgeitai. Kai parakalw etsi na proseggizoyme oloi ayta ta qemata.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Den antilambaneste na dhmioyrgeitai problhma otan o presbhs twn HPA dhlwnei dhmosiws oti qa apeyqynei apeiles gia thn epilysh toy Kypriakoy;

REPPAS: Den exei apeyqynei kamia apeilh kai gnwrizete poly kala oti h kybernhsh twn HPA exei epideijei endiaferon na emplakei sth diadikasia anazhthshs lyshs sto kypriako problhma. Exoyme pei poio einai to plaisio entos toy opoioy oloi prepei na kinhqoyn. Ayto to plaisio ginetai sebasto. Ayto einai ena qetiko stoixeio, den prepei na mas diafeygei.

KIAOS: Skopeyei h Kybernhsh, sto plaisio ths eyryqmhs leitoyrgias toy politeymatos kai ths leitoyrgias twn qesmwn, na kanei kapoies systaseis ston Proedro ths Boylhs. Sto plaisio akribws ths eyryqmhs leitoyrgias toy politeymatos kai twn "perixarakwmenwn" armodiothtwn poy exei kaqe enas paragwn politeiakos;

REPPAS: Prepei na sas pw oti o Proedros ths Boylhs askei ta kaqhkonta toy me tropo o opoios, den einai dynato, na odhghsei se opoiadhpote ypodeijh apo thn pleyra ths Kybernhshs. O idios o k. Kaklamanhs, ws politeiakos paragwn, exei to kaqhkon na symbalei sthn eyryqmh leitoyrgia ths Boylhs. Me bash ton Kanonismo, h Kybernhsh, sto plaisio twn koinoboyleytikwn diadikasiwn, proballei thn politikh ths. Nomizw oti ola ayta ta fainomena poy kata kairoys parathroyntai, fainomena ta opoia exoyn kai ena xarakthra entashs, den qa prepei na odhgoyn sto symperasma oti h Ellhnikh Boylh exei pacei pia na einai ena Swma to opoio leitoyrgei eyryqma, para to oti -epanalambanw- ayth h zwntania toy dialogoy poy polles fores paroysiazetai, mporei na prokyptei apo logoys poy den einai apolytws symbatoi me thn thrhsh toy Kanonismoy.

KIAOS: Kai kati allo: Poia anagkh ypagoreyse ston Prwqypoyrgo na parembei sth diamaxh Papandreoy-Kaklamanh apo to Londino, opws diabazoyme stis efhmerides;

REPPAS: Den yparxei kamia parembash toy Prwqypoyrgoy. O Prwqypoyrgos exei epikoinwnia me stelexh, me synergates toy. Kai mazi moy milhse o Prwqypoyrgos. Ayto den synista parembash. Einai sto plaisio ths enhmerwshs thn opoia exei o Proedros kai Prwqypoyrgos, otan apoysiazei sto ejwteriko. Enhmerwnetai gia ta osa ginontai sthn patrida mas. Kai antilambaneste pws den xreiazetai kapoia protroph h kapoia kateyqynsh. Logiko einai oti ola ayta ta qemata, opws kai o Prwqypoyrgos leei, opws oloi mas leme kai pisteyoyme, prepei na antimetwpizontai me synesh, me eyqynh. Kai ayto ginetai.

BLAXOS: Eipate oti o k. Kaklamanhs brisketai yperanw ths maxomenhs politikhs. Ayto shmainei oti qa prepei na paraithqei apo melos toy Ektelestikoy Grafeioy;

REPPAS: To syndyasa ayto apolytws me thn idiothta poy exei ws Proedros ths Boylhs.

BLAXOS: Einai melos toy Ektelestikoy Grafeioy.

REPPAS: Einai politeiakos paragwn. Ayto ton xarakthrizei. Gia ton ellhniko lao o k. Kaklamanhs einai o Proedros ths Boylhs twn Ellhnwn. Eipa sthn arxh, oti me thn kommatikh idiothta toy ws istoriko kai ychlobaqmo stelexos, symballei sthn epityxh ejelijh toy kommatikoy ergoy. Alla oloi exoyn mia kommatikh idiothta. Oloi oi Proedroi ths Boylhs exoyn kai mia kommatikh idiothta. Symbainei gia ton k. Kaklamanh, idiaiterws, h kommatikh ayth idiothta na einai ejexoysa. Den akyrwnei, omws, ayto to opoio apotelei ton kyrio rolo toy h synista thn idiaiterh armodiothta poy exei, logw ths qeshs toy, na dieyqynei tis ergasies toy Koinoboylioy.

BLAXOS: Qa protimoysate na mhn einai melos toy Ektelestikoy Grafeioy kai na einai mono Proedros ths Boylhs, ara ws politeiakos paragwn ...

REPPAS: Mpainoyme se alla qemata twra. Prepei na sas pw oti o k. Kaklamanhs exei anadeixqei s' ayth th qesh me thn chfo eite twn boyleytwn gia th qesh toy Proedroy ths Boylhs, eite me th synainesh kai thn egkrish twn syntrofwn toy gia na exei ayth thn kommatikh qesh. Kai prepei na sas pw oti toys perissoteroys -metajy twn opoiwn kai emena- qa mas breite na symmetexoyme kai stis dyo aytes diadikasies, metajy ekeinwn oi opoioi exoyn dwsei ayth th synainesh toys. Loipon, mhn anazhteite tetoioys eidoys logoys h phges gia na bgalete politika symperasmata. Den prokyptoyn.

KACAMPELHS: Dyo pragmata, kyrie Ypoyrge: Bebaia, mia parathrhsh, o k. Kaklamanhs symmetexei ej officio sto Ektelestiko Grafeio, isws den qymaste kala.

REPPAS: Den prosejate oti eipa gia synainesh, den eipa gia chfoforia, den eipa gia eklogh, otan milhsa gia thn kommatikh toy idiothta.

KACAMPELHS: A!

REPPAS: Ti "A!"; Den to prosejate, loipon. Den einai oti den qymamai egw, einai oti den prosejate eseis ...

KACAMPELHS: Mhn to diorqwsete ayto, omws ...

REPPAS: Parakalw na katagrafei opws einai sta praktika. Oi fwnes ...

KACAMPELHS: Oles oi lejeis.

REPPAS: Bebaiws.

KACAMPELHS: H erwthsh moy den htan ayth. H erwthsh moy gia to qema toy k. Kaklamanh einai h ejhs: Mporeite na mas diaceysete thn plhroforia oti o k. Kaklamanhs kai o k. Shmiths se mia apo tis teleytaies synedriaseis, poy den hrqan ws politeiakoi paragontes alla ws hgesia kybernhtikh kai kommatikh, syzhthsan me analoges apoceis, diistamenes, to qema toy k. Mperns;

REPPAS: Oydepote exoyn diatypwqei "diistamenes" apoceis sto plaisio synedriasewn, stis opoies symmetexw ki egw, toylaxiston s' aytes poy problepoyn kai symmetoxh kybernhtikwn stelexwn. Eimai kathgorhmatikos.

KACAMPELHS: O k. Kaklamanhs metexei ej officio.

REPPAS: Eimai kathgorhmatikos.

KACAMPELHS: Sthn teleytaia synedriash ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs me thn Politikh Grammateia;

REPPAS: Eimai kathgorhmatikos. Kamia diastash apocewn. Kaqe stelexos leei tis apoceis toy. Kai o k. Kaklamanhs eipe tis apoceis toy gia seira qematwn, opws kai oi alloi oi opoioi elaban meros s' ayth th synedriash. Oles aytes oi apoceis sygklinoyn. Me ton idiaitero tropo me ton opoio o kaqenas xrwmatizei tis apoceis toy, bebaiws, milaei. Alla oles aytes oi apoceis sygklinoyn.

KACAMPELHS: Ara, diaceydete oti o k. Kaklamanhs, sthn teleytaia ayth synedriash, eipe analoga pragmata me ayta poy eipe sth Boylh xqes;

REPPAS: Diaceydw oti yparxei diastash apocewn, ekfrasmenh kiolas opws to qesate eseis. O k. Kaklamanhs, sto plaisio synedriasewn kommatikwn organwn kai alles fores exei pei tis apoceis toy gia diafora qemata kai gia to sygkekrimeno. Ayto to opoio diaceydw, einai ayto to opoio qesate, oti exei ekfrastei diastash apocewn.

KACAMPELHS: H deyterh erwthsh moy afora thn Olympiakh, kyrie Ypoyrge: Tis teleytaies hmeres, oloena kai perissotera stelexh toy kybernhtikoy xwroy kai malista me empeiria, istoria kai idiaitero kyros -gia na staqoyme sta qemata kyroys- lene eyqews, kathgoroyn eyqews thn hgesia kai thn kybernhtikh kai thn kommatikh, oti doqhkan oi ayjhseis to '96 kai to '97 sthn Olympiakh, gia kaqara eswkommatikoys logoys. Lene eyqews oti doqhkan gia na parete to Synedrio. H erwthsh moy einai, s' aytoys toylaxiston, exete thn eyaisqhsia na apanthsete; Giati s' emas den apantate.

REPPAS: Kyrie Kacampelh, oi dhmosiografoi kyroys prepei na gnwrizoyn oti oi diadikasies, xronika toylaxiston, akoloyqhsan h mia thn allh. O k. Shmiths eixe eklegei Prwqypoyrgos ths xwras. Hmastan enocei toy Synedrioy toy Kommatos. Ola ayta ta qemata den eixan apofasistei. Ta qemata ths eisodhmatikhs politikhs den apasxolhsan kanenan allon para toys armodioys, th Dioikhsh ths Epixeirhshs kai toys epopteyontes Ypoyrgoys. Den einai dynaton na apotelei to qema twn symbasewn poy ypografoyn oi ergazomenoi se orismenoys tomeis, qema to opoio apasxolei ton Prwqypoyrgo enocei kai ths ypochfiothtas toy sto Synedrio. Allwste, giati na mh ginei kati analogo sto synolo toy dhmosioy tomea, prokeimenoy tote, na kanei enan "peripato" o ypochfios gia thn proedria toy Kinhmatos; Giati qa prepei kati to opoio mporoyme na to entopisoyme se mia mono epixeirhsh, na toy dinoyme mia genikh politikh ajia, san na einai mia epilogh h opoia egine gia na epiteyxqei enas kommatikos stoxos; Tote qa to kaname ayto h kati analogo se olh thn ektash toy Dhmosioy h twn epixeirhsewn toy Dhmosioy. Den einai etsi.

KACAMPELHS: Ma, to kanate.

REPPAS: Ma, den einai etsi. Giati tote den qa yphrxe logos na miloyme gia thn Olympiakh mono, me ton tropo me ton opoio miloyme. Pws sas diafeygei ayto;

KACAMPELHS: To kanate h den to kanate; O k. Papantwnioy exei dwsei epaneilhmmena synenteyjeis sthn efhmerida thn opoia ergazomai kai exei pei eyqews oti h politikh twn epidomatwn poy odhghse se ayjhsh twn apodoxwn sto dhmosio tomea se megala megeqh, egine kai kathgoroyse kai ton k. Papadopoylo, o opoios tote htan Ypoyrgos Oikonomikwn. Mh mas lete oti den egine. Toylaxiston, einai pragmata poy ta zhsame edw kai dyo xronia, oxi prin apo deka.

REPPAS: Exoyme milhsei, k. Kacampelh, gia thn ayjhsh twn apodoxwn, poy einai pragmatikh ayjhsh toy eisodhmatos, kai to 1996 kai to 1997. To miso 1996 kai olo to 1997 einai bebaia, meta to Synedrio poy anedeije ton k. Shmith sthn proedria toy Kommatos. Alla peran aytoy, dinete apanthsh se oloys ekeinoys oi opoioi kathgoroyn thn Kybernhsh oti meiwse ta eisodhmata twn ergazomenwn. Kai bebaiws, eyqygrammizeste, prepei na pw edw me ton k. Karamanlh, o opoios eipe se synenteyjh toy sthn efhmerida "BRADYNH" palaiotera, oti oi ayjhseis poy doqhkan sto Dhmosio to 1997, fqanoyn peripoy to 17% h 18%, eyriskomenos se antifash me ton eayto toy kai stelexh toy kommatos toy poy askoysan kritikh sthn Kybernhsh, oti meiwnei ta pragmatika eisodhmata. Ara, loipon, ola ayta qa prepei na ta antimetwpizoyme me prosoxh, prokeimenoy na ginetai mia syzhthsh kalopisth, gia na anadeijoyme ta problhmata kai na probaloyme ta qemata, giati mono etsi kerdizei se kyros kai h dhmosia zwh. Kai sth dhmosia zwh, peran twn politikwn, symmetexoyn kai oi dhmosiografoi.

KACAMPELHS: Ara h oysia aytwn poy mas lete einai oti den doqhkan oi ayjhseis gia na parete to Synedrio kai oti o k. Kastanidhs ws Ypoyrgos Metaforwn se politiko epipedo -afhste tis dioikhseis kai toys texnokrates- den enhmerwse ton Prwqypoyrgo, den enhmerwse thn hgesia ths Kybernhsews, den enhmerwse to Komma kai edwse "to prasino fws" gia na doqoyn aytes oi ayjhseis. Ayto katalabainei o kaqenas.

REPPAS: Sas parakalw, mh gineste eseis o kaqenas mas. Eseis eiste eseis, o sygkekrimenos dhmosiografos. Afhste ton kaqena na katalabei, me tis dikes toy ikanothtes, tis opoies fantazomai diaqetei sto baqmo poy diaqetete ki eseis ...

KACAMPELHS: Epi ths oysias apanthste.

REPPAS: Apo kei kai pera, epi ths oysias, exw pei kat' epanalhch oti ta qemata eisodhmatikhs politikhs se kaqe tomea, ta xeirizetai o armodios Ypoyrgos me to oikonomiko epiteleio ths Kybernhshs. Ayto egine kai sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh kai den exei kamia sxesh ayto -to opoio apotelei ena stoixeio poy odhghse se krish thn Olympiakh Aeroporia h megalwse thn krish toy eqnikoy aerometaforea- me opoia sxedia gia thn anadeijh toy k. Shmith sthn proedria toy Kommatos. Kamia sxesh. Kai prokyptei ayto apo ta osa sas eipa me leptomereia, prin.

MOYRTZHS: O k. Kaklamanhs, kata thn apoch sas, katastrathghse ton Kanonismo ths Boylhs poy eprepe na diafylattei ws anwtatos politeiakos paragontas;

REPPAS: Apanthsa s' ayto, prin. Eipa oti sto plaisio ths syzhthshs, me aformh kataqesh epikairhs erwthshs, apanta o armodios Ypoyrgos den problepetai parembash sto qema apo ton Proedro ths Boylhs. Apanthsa s' ayta ta qemata molis prin, se alles erwthseis, kai nomizw oti ayto to qema exei lhjei.

MOYRTZHS: Den einai elegkteos, dhladh, o Proedros ths Boylhs apo thn Kybernhsh;

REPPAS: O Proedros ths Boylhs elegkteos apo thn Kybernhsh; H Kybernhsh exei tis apoceis ths gia thn politikh poy akoloyqei kai proballei aytes tis apoceis ths. O Proedros ths Boylhs einai o eggyhths gia thn efarmogh toy Kanonismoy, sto plaisio ths leitoyrgias toy Koinoboylioy.

KAMPOYRAKHS: Yparxei ena "gkalop", shmera, ths ALCO, poy egine gia logariasmo toy ANTENNA FM, toy radiofwnoy toy ANTENNA, poy deixnei oti h N.D. prohgeitai pente monades ths Kybernhsews. Anhsyxeite apo ayto, to exete ypoch sas; Qa qelate na to sxoliasete;

REPPAS: Exw pei kat' epanalhch oti ayto to opoio epidiwkoyme einai na kerdisoyme thn chfo toy ellhnikoy laoy stis ekloges. Polles sfygmometrhseis exoyn ginei, ginontai kai qa ginoyn. Aphxoyn tis apoceis twn erwtwmenwn. Den prepei na ginontai anagwges, prokeimenoy na bgazoyme politika symperasmata ta opoia qa odhgoyn sthn pepoiqhsh oti h Kybernhsh exei apwlesei thn pleiochfia ths empistosynhs toy ellhnikoy laoy. Den to pisteyw ayto. Kai gnwrizete, para poly kala, oti s' oles aytes tis sfygmometrhseis, ena megalo pososto einai aytwn, oi opoioi den topoqetoyntai. Exoyme pei kat' epanalhch oti eimaste sto meso ths kybernhtikhs qhteias. Anagnwrizoyme oti yparxei mia dysforia se koinwnika strwmata, epeidh h politikh mas einai mia politikh poy prowqei tomes kai diarqrwtikes allages me megalh taxythta. Pisteyoyme, omws, oti to xroniko diasthma poy apomenei mexri to 2000 einai arketo, wste na geytoyme toys karpoys ths politikhs poy akoloyqoyme shmera -poy einai h orqh politikh- kai tote, qa mas krinei o ellhnikos laos, oristika me thn ypeyqynh chfo toy, oxi adapanws kai azhmiws ekfrazontas apla thn protimhsh toy, apantwntas se mia erwthsh, gnwrizontas oti h apanthsh ayth, h protimhsh poy ekfrazei, den einai ikanh na allajei thn poreia twn pragmatwn. Tote, loipon, poy qa mas krinei o ellhnikos laos, pisteyw oti qa exoyme kai pali thn entolh toy gia na kybernhsoyme gia mia akomh tetraetia.

MOSXOBAS: Qelw na rwthsw an to xqesino nayagio toy dialogoy metajy twn ergazomenwn kai ths dioikhshs ths O.A. allazei ardhn to sxediasmo ths Kybernhshs sto qema toy nomosxedioy.

REPPAS: Eipa sthn arxh, isws prin erqete, oti einai megalh epityxia to oti exei prokycei symfwnia metajy twn dyo pleyrwn gia ta qemata toy Kanonismoy Proswpikoy. Einai ena apotelesma poly qetiko, poy prepei na to epishmanoyme, giati deixnei thn ajia poy exei o dialogos kai h synennohsh kai apodeiknyei pws einai para poly swsth h epilogh poy exei akoloyqhsei h Kybernhsh sto plaisio toy koinwnikoy dialogoy, na syzhta me toys endiaferomenoys, me toys ergazomenoys, ta politika qemata epi twn opoiwn prokeitai na labei prwtoboylies. M' ayth thn ennoia, pisteyw oti h asymfwnia h opoia exei prokycei se orismena shmeia, bebaiws, einai kati oxi eyxaristo. Pisteyoyme, omws, oti kata th syzhthsh kai thn chfish toy nomosxedioy qa doqei h dynatothta na ekfrastoyn oles oi xrhsimes apoceis kai oti, telika, h efarmogh toy nomoy qa odhghsei sthn ejygiansh ths O.A. Yparxoyn, bebaia, shmeia sta opoia den exei prokycei symfwnia. Polles fores, omws, den prokyptei symfwnia se diafora qemata kai gia logoys entypwsewn, gia logoys taktikhs. Den qelw na pw oti h sygkekrimenh asymfwnia brisketai s' ayto to pedio, oti anhkei s' ayth thn kathgoria. Kaqe allo. Alla, sas kalw na qymhqeite pws polles fores ginontai taktikes kinhseis, ejaitias twn opoiwn den prokyptoyn symfwnies. Gi' ayto to logo kai mono. Nomizw oti oi ergazomenoi edeijan megalh ypeyqynothta. H stash toys, toylaxiston opws exei ekfrastei se basikes pleyres ths, apotelei poly qetiko paragonta kai dhmioyrgeitai h pepoiqhsh oti me thn efarmogh toy nomoy h O.A. qa synexisei na leitoyrgei me th dikh toys symbolh. Aytos einai o qetikos rolos toys, gia ton opoio milhsa prin, prokeimenoy o eqnikos aerometaforeas, oxi mono na swqei, alla na katastei kai antagwnistikos. Kai ayto einai ena stoixhma to opoio prepei na kerdisoyme oloi. Den einai pedio opoy qa anadeixqoyn nikhtes kai htthmenoi to egxeirhma gia thn ejygiansh ths O.A.. Nomizw oti oi ergazomenoi exoyn dexqei pws o rolos toys einai shmantikos. Kai s' ayto to rolo toys apodeiknyoyn oti qeloyn na antapokriqoyn swsta, qetika.

MOSXOBAS: Ejakoloyqei na isxyei h apeilh peiqarxikwn metrwn sthn periptwsh poy den chfistei to nomosxedio apo kapoioys boyleytes;

REPPAS: Isxyoyn osa exoyme pei oles aytes tis hmeres gia to sygkekrimeno zhthma.

KIAOS: Poia einai ta koina shmeia poy exei to programma toy kybernhtikoy kommatos sthn Ellada, toy PASOK kai o Prwqypoyrgos kos Shmiths me to Dhmokratiko Komma twn Hnwmenwn Politeiwn kai ton k. Klinton sto plaisio ths anazhthshs toy koinoy tritoy dromoy mazi me ton k. Mpler kai toys alloys;

REPPAS: Kyrie Kiao, den qa syzhthsoyme twra edw peri twn qematwn toy kommatos h peri ths ideologias kai ths politikhs qewrias.

KIAOS: Ths Kybernhsews.

REPPAS: Parakalw poly, gnwrizete oti ekproswpoyntai kommata s' ayth th syskech poy organwnei o k. Mpler. Mporw mono na sas pw oti h prwtoboylia ayth toy k. Mpler qetei qemata ta opoia aforoyn thn poreia twn proodeytikwn kommatwn sto kosmo shmera. Qa syzhthqoyn ta qemata ths sygxronhs Aristeras. Mporei na pei kapoios oti dyo megala stratopeda dhmioyrgoyntai se olo ton kosmo. To oti giname pagkosmio xwrio epiballei na yparxei stenh epikoinwnia kai synergasia metajy syggenwn politikwn reymatwn. Oi dyo aytoi megaloi politikoi xwroi, mporei na pei kaneis oti exoyn ena skelos -to proodeytiko- sto opoio mporei na anhkoyn, synergazomena metajy toys, ta ergatika, ta sosialistika, ta dhmokratika kommata. Ayth einai mia poly adrh, poly genikh...

KIAOS: Qewreite syggenes komma to Dhmokratiko Komma twn Hnwmenwn Politeiwn;

REPPAS: Einai mia idea thn opoia exei diatypwsei o k. Mpler. Gnwrizete oti h Ellada einai mia xwra me sygkekrimena koinwnika, oikonomika stoixeia kai sygkekrimenes eqnikes proteraiothtes. Oi Hnwmenes Politeies einai mia xwra alloy megeqoys, ara kai h politikh toys exei alles diastaseis. Antilambaneste, loipon, pws an mpoyme se mia tetoia syzhthsh, qa metablhqoyme se filologoys ths politikhs, kati poy den prepei na kanoyme.

KIAOS: Qa hqela na moy apanthsete monolektika, an yparxei qema me ton k. Mperns ws presbeyth twn Hnwmenwn Politeiwn sthn Ellada. Gia thn Kybernhsh yparxei qema Mperns;

REPPAS: Den yparxei qema.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Eipate prin oti ayto to opoio leei o k. Shmiths, profanws ayth thn wra, einai oti sto plaisio antallaghs kommatikwn apocewn. Anejarthta, omws, apo ayto, o k. Shmiths, toylaxiston apo ta keimena poy exoyme ypoch mas, milhse gia thn anagkh sygkrothshs mias politikhs Kybernhshs sthn Eyrwph. Ti akribws shmainei ayto, mporeite na mas ejhghsete;

REPPAS: Den milhse gia thn idrysh h th dhmioyrgia politikhs Kybernhshs. Milhse gia th dhmioyrgia mias politikhs omadas, mias politikhs epitrophs poy qa odhghsei sth diatypwsh protashs gia na antimetwpistei to megalo problhma shmera ths Eyrwphs, poy einai to dhmokratiko kai to koinwniko elleimma poy exei h E.E. Giati, eipe, oti den mporei h synergasia mas sthn ayrianh Eyrwph, na einai synergasia se mia Eyrwph twn 18 h 20 ekatommyriwn anergwn. Ara, prepei na yparxei ena eniaios sxediasmos, ena koryfaio politiko kentro, to opoio qa asxolhqei me ta qemata ayta kai qa proteinei lyseis gia na ta antimetwpisoyme. Milhse poly sygkekrimena, dinontas to stigma ayths ths -kata kapoio tropo- epitrophs thn opoia eseis onomazete Kybernhsh, alla den prokeitai peri aytoy, opws antilambaneste.

ELENOPOYLOS: Dhladh, mias "Pempths Dieqnoys", gia na to poyme kapws etsi.

REPPAS: Kyrie Elenopoyle, eiste eyfantastos, alla eiste neos kai nomizw qa prolabete na zhsete polles Dieqneis!

Eyxaristw poly.

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