USIA - Transcript: Burns on Christopher/Ciller Meeting (96-09-24)

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From: The United States Information Agency (USIA) Gopher at <gopher://gopher.usia.gov>

TRANSCRIPT: BURNS BRIEFING ON CHRISTOPHER/CILLER MEETING

(U.S., Turkey concur on approach toward Iraq) (4090)

Burns briefed reporters September 23 regarding the meeting that day between Secretary of State Warren Christopher and Turkey's Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Tansu Ciller.

Contrary to press reports, Turkey is not seeking Iraqi help to control the flow of refugees or the movements of the Kurdish terrorist group known as the PKK, Burns said.

"As a result of today's meeting," Burns said, "Turkey and the United States firmly agree that Saddam's influence in northern Iraq should be minimized."

Both countries, he added, agree to support the efforts of the Kurds and Turkomans in northern Iraq to provide for their own political stability.

Following is the transcript of Burns' remarks, as provided by the State Department:

(begin transcript)

First, let me say, I think you may have available already what Mrs. Ciller said when the cameras said at the top of the meeting. I felt it was an important statement. It was a reaffirmation of the statement that was issued out of Ankara yesterday about the miscommunication that Mrs. Ciller had with a journalist the other day in Ankara.

It's a very important statement because it does reflect the fact that the United States and Turkey have an identity of views pertaining to the situation in northern Iraq -- and that is, the United States strongly believes -- and, of course, Turkey concurs -- that Saddam Hussein can play no useful role in northern Iraq; that neither the United States nor Turkey would support the extension of Saddam's influence in northern Iraq.

In fact, both of us hope to work to create stability in northern Iraq without Saddam Hussein's forces in play. So, that, I think, was one of the most important things that was said.

Let me just tell you, the meeting lasted around 40 minutes. It covered broadly the situation in Iraq, and Turkey's view and the United States view of what now must be done. It also touched on some bilateral military cooperation between the United States and Turkey. There was a long discussion of "Provide Comfort." There was a discussion of Cyprus and Greek- Turkish relations, comments on the recent electoral victory of Prime Minister Simitis, and other issues.

Let me just go through those issues very briefly and then I'll respond to questions.

Mrs. Ciller noted that her coalition in Turkey is two months old and just wanted to remind Secretary Christopher that despite some of what one hears about the orientation of that coalition, just in the last two months, Turkey has initiated two defense agreements with Israel. As you know, the United States has been a strong supporter of Turkey's new relationship with Israel. She also noted that Turkey has reapplied for full membership in the European Union, also a process that the United States has supported.

She noted that Turkey had been perhaps the most solid Western partner with Iraq. Certainly, if you look at the United Kingdom and Turkey, they're two of the countries that have been, I think, closest to us. She also noted that there is clearly now a vacuum of power in northern Iraq because of the events of the last couple of weeks. She said that Turkey had a number of concerns with this. First, Turkey wanted to make sure that some kind of diplomatic initiative could be created to fill that vacuum of power -- I'll get to that in a minute -- and, second, that PKK terrorism was on the rise. She noted that there is an average of three Turkish soldiers killed on a daily basis because of PKK terrorism. She said, on that basis, Turkey had created a security zone.

She was grateful for the support of the United States. She said that she felt that insufficient attention had been given to the situation of the Turkomans, which is a quite large population; several million in northern Iraq alone, and many hundreds of thousands just up against the Turkish- Iraqi border.

She said that the security zone was in place; that it would remain in place along the lines that she had discussed earlier -- about a week or two -- with Secretary Christopher.

Secretary Christopher said he agreed that it was very important for Turkey and the United States to try to bring stability to northern Iraq. He said that the United States would continue to support the Turkish security zone; that our understand is that it would be temporary in duration. Mrs. Ciller concurred in that.

Secretary Christopher said that he was gratified to hear the public statement just a little while ago by Mrs. Ciller and also to read the statement yesterday because the United States believes that there's no basis to work with Saddam Hussein in northern Iraq; that he has shown in the past he's completely unreliable and untrustworthy.

He said, of course, the United States wants to work with Turkey, with Mr. Barzani, and with the Turkomans for stability.

Mrs. Ciller said that one of the prime goals of Turkish policy now would be to bring Barzani and the Turkomans together so that, together, they might fill the security void -- the security vacuum -- in northern Iraq.

There was quite a long discussion about the Turkomans, about the leadership of the Turkomans, about how to engage the Turkomans. As you know, she has just had a serious of meetings with Mr. Barzani and the Turkoman leadership. Bob Pelletreau, who is in Ankara meeting Mr. Barzani, also meet the Turkoman leadership when he was there.

Secretary Christopher said it was our very strong desire to work with both the Turkomans and Mr. Barzani. He noted what we have said repeatedly in the past, and that is, that the United States hopes that Mr. Barzani and Mr. Talabani will understand sooner or later that their temporary alliances with Iraq and Iran do not make sense for them; that they are unwise and that they will not serve the interests of the Kurdish people in the long term.

Mrs. Ciller then said there were a couple of issues that she wanted to address with us. She said that Turkey had been hurt economically by the crisis; that Turkey had to shoulder a very large burden over the last five years; that Turkey hoped that U.N. Resolution 986 could be reinitiated soon so that the humanitarian oil could flow very soon. She noted that this had caused major problems in the Turkish economy.

There was also some discussion of some bilateral U.S.-Turkish economic issues. She also reiterated her request that the United States continue to support Turkey's membership in the European Union.

Let me just say on all of those, on Turkey and the European Union, I believe no country outside the European Union has been a stronger supporter of this process, of the Customs Union, and of Turkey's full membership at some time in the future, than the United States. Secretary Christopher has supported that.

On the economic concerns, the United States is quite sensitive to Turkey's position that it has perhaps had to shoulder more of a burden than others because of the Gulf War and because of the economic sanctions against Saddam Hussein.

The Secretary reaffirmed to her that the United States does want U.N. Resolution 986 to go forward. Obviously now, we have got to work to resolve some of the practical problems that right now prevent it from going forward and that have led Mr. Boutros Ghali to suspend it, at least for the time being.

On Cyprus, Mrs. Ciller said that with the election of the Greek Minister there was a hope that there could be at least some new discussions, some new work between Turkey and Greece on Cyprus. She also noted that Turkey is in need of further IMF support. I think she'll be having meetings with the IMF leadership here in New York.

Let me just wrap it up by saying that Secretary Christopher, I think, agreed with Mrs. Ciller on the point about northern Iraq; on 986, we were very supportive.

Ambassador Pelletreau briefed on his meetings with Mr. Barzani and the Turkomans. There was, again, some final discussion abut the European Union- Turkey relationship as well as in Cyprus, where the Secretary of State said that the United States wanted to congratulate Prime Minister Simitis on his election. The United States does want to work with Turkey and Greece and the communities on Cyprus to see if we can move forward on that.

There was an agreement at the end of the meeting that we need a longer discussion of "Provide Comfort." Both countries are very pleased that "Provide Comfort" continues. We're flying in the north in order to contain Saddam Hussein. But we agree that there would be some more conversation about that -- the longer-term aspects of it.

Mrs. Ciller asked about the transfer of frigates by the United States to Turkey. That is on hold now by the Congress. Secretary Christopher said we very much want to break that hold and allow the frigate transfer to go forward.

So, in general, let me just summarize by saying, it was an excellent meeting.

The most important issue, Iraq, I think we have a uniformity of views between the United States and Turkey, a very solid relationship between the United States and Turkey. This meeting demonstrated that.

QUESTION: Could you say what was said about the IMF leadership meeting?

BURNS: Mrs. Ciller noted that Turkey has a relationship with the IMF that is an important one; that Turkey has made some proposals to the IMF and that she would be meeting with Mr. Camdessus. She'll also be meeting with Deputy Secretary of the Treasury, Larry Summers, this week while she's in New York.

I really can't characterize her position beyond that because I'm not her spokesman, but that did come up.

Q: Has the Secretary expressed any support for Turkey's request for the IMF?

BURNS: The Secretary did not get into it specifically, except to say that he was pleased that Secretary Summers would be meeting with her. Of course, as you know, in general, we've been a great supporter of Turkey's economic connection to the West with the European Union, with the international financial institutions. We share Mrs. Ciller's vision that Turkey needs to remain connected to the West in all respects -- politically, economically, and certainly through NATO.

Q: You said you described the New York Times article as misinterpretation. Mrs. Ciller made the statement, which we heard. Did you get into any details of what she said, though, because some of the things were in direct quotes? She talked about some on-going dialogue with Saddam Hussein.

BURNS: Ironically, she noted that she had given an interview to the BBC about half hour before she met with the New York Times. She said that the two interviews were quite dramatically different in the way that they came out. The Secretary did not have a detailed discussion on what she said to the New York Times. But she was very clear that she felt that there had been a miscommunication. Those are her words, not mine.

We are satisfied after discussions this weekend. When we saw the article, obviously, it caused some anxiety in Washington. Our Ambassador, Marc Grossman, and several people from Washington made inquiries with the Turks. There was a very straightforward, very clear public statement issued by the Foreign Ministry yesterday out of Ankara and, again, this morning, in response to Patrick's question. I think now Mrs. Ciller has really pretty much resolved any kind of misunderstanding. You've seen her statement. It's very straightforward support for the position of the United States.

Q: What does the U.S. feel about Turkey having an on-going dialogue with Saddam Hussein?

BURNS: I'm not aware that there is any kind of real dialogue underway. Our position is clear.

On the question of northern Iraq, we don't believe it's wise for any country to believe that somehow one can negotiate comfortably or productively with Saddam Hussein. He has shown that his intentions in northern Iraq are quite base and hostile to the local populations there. So I think as a result of today's meeting, Turkey and the United States firmly agree that Saddam's influence in northern Iraq should be minimized. It should not be encouraged in any way. And, on the contrary, we ought to try to support the efforts of the Kurds and the Turkomans to provide for their own political stability. That's really what the crux of this meeting was about -- the efforts of Turkey and the United States to talk to Mr. Barzani, to talk to the Turkoman leadership in order to see that happen.

Q: Can you give us any more details about some form of restoration and "Provide Comfort?" Do you expect to restore it to pre-invasion proportions?

BURNS: There was no detailed discussion about the longer term. There are two aspects of this. In the short term, the United States, Britain, France, and Turkey will continue to operate "Provide Comfort" in order to contain Saddam Hussein in the north.

In the longer term, I think the position of the Turkish Government is that there needs to be some detailed conversations about the structure and format that "Provide Comfort" will take in the longer term. But there's time for those discussions. Secretary Christopher said we would be very open to them.

Later on today, Peter Tarnoff, our Under Secretary, and Bob Pelletreau, and Assistant Secretary Phyllis Oakley, who is in charge of refugees for the United States, will be meeting with Mr. Oymen who is the Under Secretary in the Turkish Foreign Ministry, for further discussions on these types of issues.

Q: Can you tell us more about what -- about the new government in Greece?

BURNS: Obviously, we know Prime Minister Simitis quite well. The Secretary of State would like to congratulate Mr. Simitis on his election. Greece is a very important ally of the United States.

If you look at a lot of the issues that we talked about today, particularly Cyprus, of course Greece is one of the most important countries to be involved. We look forward to working bilaterally with him but also to engaging on Cyprus when he is ready, when he's had a chance to enjoy his victory and, of course, think about appointments to his government.

Q: On the dialogue, especially the dialogue (inaudible) made by Mrs. Ciller that nobody in their government, possibly by Mr. Erbakan, would continue the dialogue -- did they discuss Iran?

BURNS: Yes. In fact, thank you. They did discuss Iran, and I was remiss in not pointing it out to you.

But, on your first question, there was really no discussion between Secretary Christopher and Mrs. Ciller about a supposed Turkish dialogue with Iraq. There don't seem to be any kind of close diplomatic conversations underway. We know there are some contacts. There were contacts, I know several weeks ago, about the implementation of U.N. Resolution 986. But we received the very strong feeling from this meeting that Turkey wants to work closely with the United States to limit the activities of Saddam Hussein in the northern part of Iraq, and that Turkey would be quite strong in working with the United States towards this end. So I don't think any kind of dialogue is a problem.

If there is any dialogue, it's obviously very routine and non-consequential.

On the issue of Iran, there was a discussion of Iran; I think agreement by the Secretary and Mrs. Ciller that Mr. Talabani had made a mistake in aligning himself with Iran; that Iran also has designs on northern Iraq. Iran would like to increase its influence there. It's our very strong position that Iran will not extend its influence into northern Iraq.

As you know, the United States believes that Iran should be very careful about its behavior in this situation.

Q: On Colombia. The presence today of President Samper at the United Nations reminds us of when Castro comes here. Do think his presents could (inaudible) or if you plan to improve the relationship using this opportunity.

BURNS: As you know, President Samper is traveling here on his diplomatic visa. It was never our intention, and certainly not our policy, to deny him the right to travel to the United Nations for a meeting. We understand he's here.

We still, of course, adhere to our decision that he is not welcomed beyond New York, beyond a visit to the United Nations, as a visitor to the United States because of the disagreements we have with him over the problems in implementing an effective anti-narcotics policy in Colombia.

Q: The U.S. doesn't plan to improve the relationship with this visit, or any (inaudible) policies?

BURNS: The United States would like to improve its relationship with Colombia. That will be a function of the ability of the Colombian Government to improve its anti-narcotics corruption and corruption programs.

I'm not aware of any attempt this week to engage with him towards that end. We've discussed it with his Foreign Minister, with his Justice Minister, with his senior advisors. We'll continue to do that. We'll continue to have contacts with him through out Ambassador in Bogota. I'm not aware of any diplomatic encounters this week.

Secretary Christopher and President Clinton are not intending to see President Samper this week.

Q: Was there any discussion of Turkey's standing request that the U.N. consider an exemption from the Iraq sanctions?

BURNS: That was not mentioned. I know there's been a request in the past. What Mrs. Ciller, I think, asked for is effective implementation of U.N. Resolution 986, or compensation, if that is not possible.

The Secretary of State just reaffirmed the U.S. position on 986 that I described to you.

Q: Was there any elaboration on the type of compensation?

BURNS: There wasn't. It was a general discussion; not a detailed one.

Q: On that same point, you said the United States favored going ahead with it if practical problems are resolved. What are those problems that have to be resolved?

BURNS: The practical problems are that the implementation plan was drawn up before the outbreak of the hostilities in northern Iraq. Irbil, for instance, was to have been a major distribution point for the oil and for the humanitarian goods. It was the bottom-line position of the United States up here in New York, as all of you know who are based up here, that we could agree to 986 -- in fact, we helped to draft the resolution -- but only if we could be assured that Saddam Hussein did not profit from the operation. Therefore, we wanted more monitors, and we wanted an effective implementation scheme. We think that implementation program now needs to be revised, to take account of the changed situation in northern Iraq over the last couple of weeks.

I want to be clear. We're not going to hold this up forever. We would like to see it go forward, but only if it can be done on a practical basis so that it makes sense, and Saddam Hussein doesn't profit from it.

Q: Is it possible to do it as long as Saddam is in control of the north?

BURNS: We don't assume that Saddam Hussein is in control of the north. In fact, a lot of evidence would support the fact that Mr. Barzani probably is the most important political actor in northern Iraq right now. But that certainly does bear watching and it's one of the factors.

Q: Did the Secretary raise the human rights issues at all?

BURNS: The human rights issues came up in passing. The Secretary mentioned it briefly. The Secretary also raised -- and I'm getting back to Iran now -- the concerns that the United States has with the proposed gas agreement between Turkey and Iran.

The Secretary noted that the United States and Turkey have said consistently that we want to diminish Iran's influence in the region, not accentuate it; and that it was our very strong belief that any kind of normalization of economic relations between Iran and any other country in the region would be to the detriment of the policy that Turkey and the United States agree on.

As you know, we are looking into this deal to see how it does affect our own laws -- the D'Amato legislation that has just been passed by the U.S. Congress and signed by the President. But before we come to the end of that investigation, we still firmly believe that the whole idea of economic normalization with Iran is not wise. The Secretary made that very clear in the meeting.

Q: What did Mrs. Ciller have to say to that point?

BURNS: She actually did not respond. That may be one of the issues that comes up in the working session later on this afternoon between Mr. Tarnoff and Mr. Oymen and the other officials.

Q: Getting back to the control in northern Iraq, you say that Barzani is perhaps the most actor. A couple of days after Irbil was taken, the State Department said that Saddam had left a massive security presence there. Is that still your belief that there (inaudible).

BURNS: Our general view is, Chris -- and you're right, that was a statement made about two and a half weeks ago, if I'm not mistaken. Our general view is, for the most part, the Iraqi military presence is minimal; that Saddam has withdrawn most of his troops. On the intelligence security side, there likely is a security and intelligence presence of Saddam Hussein which is most regrettable considering the way that they operate and the terrible human rights abuses that have been caused by the Iraqi security services, and the executions that we already know about from Irbil. But we think that's also somewhat minimal. Mr. Barzani, of course, has been saying that it is minimal, if not non-existent in some parts of northern Iraq.

So we're watching that very closely. Secretary Christopher's bottom line, as he expressed it to Mrs. Ciller, is that it looks like this crisis may be easing a bit. But with Saddam Hussein, it does pay to be vigilant and to watch him very carefully. The United States is not letting down its guard. We'll continue to watch the situation closely.

I have got to run. Let me just do two more things. Let me tell you that I'll be coming here after the Secretary's meeting with Foreign Minister Primakov later on this afternoon. That will probably be around 4:30 or 4:45.

I do want to mention one thing. This is not meant to be gratuitous, but I think it's important. There was an article in the Washington Post this morning that carried a lot of quotes from unnamed people asserting that somehow the United States and the United Kingdom are in substantial disagreement on Bosnia.

Having talked with Secretary Christopher, with Ambassador Madeleine Albright, with Deputy Secretary Talbott all just in the last hour or two, I can assure you that the United States and the United Kingdom remain in very close touch. We are working very well together. Some of the allegations made, again, by people, who did not identify themselves -- people who may not even be U.S. Government officials -- are completely off base, particularly the references to the U.K. Ambassador here at the United Nations who Ambassador Albright believes is one of her best partners. I'm speaking of Ambassador John Weston.

So we were chagrined to see this article -- see some of the unnamed comments that were made. I just wanted to say for-the-record that the United States and the United Kingdom, I think, see eye-to-eye in large measure on Bosnia. We may have a few disagreements on some technical issues. But in large part, we're together and we very much appreciate that relationship.

(end transcript)

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