Greek Government Press Briefing, 10-09-21

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Trith, 21 Septembrioy 2010

Ariqmos Deltioy: 290399193

Ekdosh 1

BRIEFING210910)

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 21 Septembrioy 2010

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri.

H ejaggelia toy Prwqypoyrgoy sth Dieqnh Ekqesh Qessalonikhs gia amesh epilysh twn oikonomikwn ekkremothtwn twn epixeirhsewn, ginetai amesa prajh, me mia gennaia ryqmish, poy kalei toys poliths sthn ekoysia katarghsh twn forologikwn diaforwn toy parelqontos, poy talanizoyn kai th Dioikhsh, alla kyriws toys forologoymenoys.

Oi polites kai oi forologikes arxes afhnoyn pisw to parelqon kai xtizoyn gia to paron kai to mellon mia sxesh amoibaias empistosynhs kai synepeias, poy qa diasfalizei thn ekplhrwsh twn forologikwn ypoxrewsewn apo oloys toys polites. Einai mia teleytaia eykairia gia mia nea arxh.

To ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn kataqetei gia diaboyleysh tis basikes arxes sxedioy nomoy, gia thn ekoysia katarghsh aytwn twn forologikwn ekkremothtwn. Se ayth th diadikasia symperilambanontai oi anelegktes ypoqeseis 2000 -2009, me ejairesh aytes twn poly megalwn epixeirhsewn. Ypoqeseis poy ekkremoyn sta dioikhtika dikasthria prwtoy kai deyteroy baqmoy dikaiodosias, efoson den exoyn syzhthqei sto deyterobaqmio dikasthrio kai triton, oi lhjiproqesmes ofeiles pros to Dhmosio.

Kaqenas, bebaia, mporei na antilhfqei tis diafores ayths ths ryqmishs apo tis prohgoymenes poy ekane h kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias, kai se ayton ton tomea. Prokeitai gia allh mia apodeijh pws h atolmia, h eyqynofobia, h aprajia kai h parelkystikh antimetwpish qematwn poy kaine kai xronizoyn, xarakthristika gnwrismata ths kybernhshs ths Neas Dhmokratias, anhkoyn pleon sto parelqon.

Dystyxws, h shmerinh hgesia ths Neas Dhmokratias synexizei akribws apo ekei poy eixe meinei ws kybernhsh, opws oloi oi polites antilhfqhkan apo th prosfath paroysia toy k. Samara sth Dieqnh Ekqesh Qessalonikhs, para thn prospaqeia anadiplwshs toy ekproswpoy Typoy ths Neas Dhmokratias. Sta eykola logia, thn elleich politikoy realismoy kai epafhs me thn pragmatikothta, alla kai se magikes syntages ejafanishs twn problhmatwn, apo th mia stigmh sthn allh, opws h ejaleich toy elleimmatos mesa sto 2011.

Kaqe, bebaia, diaforetikh fwnh poy yparxei, opws toy k. Skylakakh, toy eyrwboyleyth ths Neas Dhmokratias, o opoios milhse shmera gia aytopyrobolismo gia opoion anakoptei thn prospaqeia gia to Mnhmonio, antimetwpizetai, opws fainetai, apo th Nea Dhmokratia me ton katallhlo tropo. An yparxei, omws, estw kai enas mesa sth Nea Dhmokratia, ena stelexos h ena melos ths Neas Dhmokratias, ektos apo ton k. Samara poy pisteyei oti to elleimma mporei na mhdenistei mesa sto 2011, qa htan pragmatika ajioshmeiwto kai qa htan epiqymhto na to akoysoyme.

To epakoloyqo erwthma, bebaia, sto opoio dystyxws oi polites den phran pote apanthsh, einai giati den efarmosan tipote apolytws apo ayta poy eipe o k. Samaras sth Dieqnh Ekqesh Qessalonikhs, kata thn ejaeth diakybernhsh toys, alla antiqeta, fygomaxhsan, egkataleipontas thn ejoysia, apo ta megala problhmata ths xwras.

Parakalw tis erwthseis.

SPANOY: Etsi opws sas akoysa na anafereste stis dhlwseis toy k. Skylakakh kai sthn tyxh poy eixe, diapistwnw oti emfanizeste etoimoi na synergasteite me stelexh, opws o k. Skylakakhs h h k. Mpakogiannh.

PETALWTHS: Den tiqetai tetoio zhthma. Shmera einai wra eyqynhs gia oloys kai anefera ton k. Skylakakh, o opoios exei mia diaforetikh apoch apo aythn toy k. Samara, liges hmeres meta th Dieqnh Ekqesh Qessalonikhs, akribws giati katadeiknyetai to poso diaforetikes einai oi antilhceis kai mesa sth Nea Dhmokratia. Gia ayto akribws eipa oti amfiballw ean yparxei kapoio allo stelexos ths Neas Dhmokratias poy mporei na ensternistei thn apoch toy k. Samara, ayth thn peribohth apoch, oti mesa sto 2011 qa mporoyse na mhdenisei to elleimma.

KOYTRAS: Kopteste gia th diagrafh Skylakakh, ap` o,ti antilambanomai, omws...

PETALWTHS: Kaqoloy.

KOYTRAS: Omws kai to PASOK to idio ekane se treis boyleytes toy, otan diafwnhsan ton Ioynio.

PETALWTHS: Den koptomeqa gia kanenan. Anefera ton k. Skylakakh gia na deijw oti yparxoyn diaforetikes antilhceis, dyo hmeres meta th DEQ. Den mas endiaferoyn ta eswterika ths Neas Dhmokratias, ayto einai jekaqaro. To exoyme pei polles fores kai den einai sxhma logoy, oti h shmerinh epoxh xreiazetai kai mia antipoliteysh, h opoia qa einai sobarh, h opoia qa proteinei me realismo tis qeseis kai tis apoceis ths kai akribws ayto to elleimma kaythriazoyme. Einai, omws, perirreoysa h aisqhsh h opoia yparxei, oti kaneis den ensternizetai ayto poy eipe o k. Samaras. Ayth einai h apoch mas. Ti qa ginei me ton k. Skylakakh, einai diko toys qema.

SIDERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, h peraiwsh den epibrabeyei toys forofygades; Kai giati o eilikrinhs forologoymenos na mhn perimenei thn epomenh ``teleytaia eykairia'', opws eipate, gia na kanonisei tis doyleies toy;

PETALWTHS: H peraiwsh, prwta ap` ola, erxetai na lysei diafora zhthmata. Kai ektos apo th synhqh diadikasia ths peraiwshs poy yphrxe mexri twra, prokeimenoy aplws na sygkentrwqoyn kapoia xrhmata kai malista se epoxes poly pio eykoles apo th shmerinh, emeis qesmoqetoyme kai alles diadikasies poy einai prwtognwres. Edw kai para polla xronia, gnwrizoyme oti sta dioikhtika dikasthria limnazoyn forologikes ekkremothtes, oi opoies exoyn ws apotelesma na eisprattontai elaxista apo ayta poy qa eprepe na eispraxqoyn apo to kratos. Emeis allazoyme kai th nomoqesia. Olo ayto to kanoyme syntonismena, etsi wste na mhn yparjei sto ejhs diadikasia peraiwshs, ypo thn ennoia poy yphrxe mexri twra kai fysika na mhn janadoyme dioikhtikes forologikes diafores na limnazoyn sta dioikhtika dikasthria, xwris oi forologoymenoi na plhrwsoyn ayta poy eprepe na plhrwsoyn. Kai edw einai h diafora mas.

SIDERHS: Kai giati den kanete taxyrryqmes tis diadikasies twn dioikhtikwn dikasthriwn, wste na mporesete na syllabete th forologhtea ylh kai toys apallassete me thn peraiwsh;

PETALWTHS: Den apallassoyme kanenan. Ginetai ryqmish, den apallassetai kaneis. Emeis milame gia aytes tis ypoqeseis, oi opoies limnazoyn edw kai polla xronia. Hdh, yparxei nomoqetikh prwtoboylia ths kybernhshs, thn exei anakoinwsei o k. Kastanidhs -qa erqei kata pasa piqanothta se amesws epomeno ypoyrgiko symboylio- me thn opoia qa ryqmizontai ayta poy den ryqmisthkan dekaeties. Dhladh, oi ypoqeseis aytes na exoyn mia diaforetikh antimetwpish, na yparxei mia taxytath aponomh ths Dikaiosynhs, etsi wste na jekaqarisoyn kai na gnwrizei kai o forologoymenos ean kai ti ofeilei, alla kyriws na mh xanei h Politeia ta poly megala posa poy xanei me ayto ton tropo edw kai xronia.

STRATAKHS: Einai sigoyrh h kybernhsh oti mporei o foroeispraktikos mhxanismos poy yparxei, opws yparxei shmera, na ferei eis peras kai thn peraiwsh; Kai to lew, giati yparxoyn efories xwris eforoys kai giati yparxoyn ta gnwsta problhmata dysleitoyrgias ths kratikhs mhxanhs, genikotera. Pws eiste sigoyroi; Kai poio einai to poso to opoio prosdoka h kybernhsh na eisprajei ap` ayth thn peraiwsh;

PETALWTHS: Einai gnwsto oti yparxoyn problhmata kai yparxoyn paqogeneies kai stis efories kai sto dioikhtiko mhxanismo genikotera. Ean elege kaneis to antiqeto, pragmatika qa ceydotan. Ekeino, omws, to opoio kanoyme - gi` ayto leme oti emeis kanoyme tis megales allages, me tis opoies qetoyme th bash gia mia diaforetikh sxesh empistosynhs, mia diaforetikh antimetwpish pros ton Ellhna polith- einai oi rizikes allages poy qa ferei me nomosxedio to ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn, to opoio problepei anadiarqrwsh twn foroeispraktikwn mhxanismwn, etsi wste stelexh poy yphretoyn stis oikonomikes yphresies na leitoyrgoyn me ton kalytero tropo, na yparxei ypodomh kai o tropos leitoyrgias toys na einai teleiws diaforetikos. Alla kai shmera oi efories mporoyn na feroyn se peras ayth thn peraiwsh.

STRATAKHS: To poso... (den akoygetai).

PETALWTHS: Qa to analysei o ypoyrgos Oikonomikwn.

MOSXOBAS: Hqela na rwthsw, kat` arxas, an meta apo ayth th diadikasia, dedomenoy oti apeleyqerwnontai kai ypoqeseis, opws lete eseis kai h doyleia poy peftei stoys wmoys twn eforiakwn kai me dedomenh thn ektimhsh toy k. Kapelerh, an den kanw laqos, thn perasmenh ebdomada, oti polles efories perissotero zhmia prokaloyn sto kratos h oxi, qelw na rwthsw an skepteste to na kleisete kapoies zhmiogones - na to pw etsi sxhmatika- efories, oi opoies den exoyn piasei toys stoxoys, toynantion mallon einai epibarynsh gia ton kratiko proypologismo.

PETALWTHS: Den mporw na pw oti einai oi perissoteres, einai omws polles. Yparxoyn efories poy ontws den pianoyn toys stoxoys toys kai gi` ayto, akribws, h kybernhsh meleta kai thn anadiarqrwsh twn oikonomikwn yphresiwn. Prepei na katanohsoyme oloi oti eidika se aytes tis synqhkes, alla kai xwris na yparxoyn aytes oi dyskoles synqhkes gia th xwra, oi foroeispraktikoi mhxanismoi prepei na doyleyoyn. As mhn jexname oti perasame mia ejaetia, opoy yphrxe plhrhs dialysh twn foroeispraktikwn mhxanismwn. Ayto poy eixe yposxeqei h Nea Dhmokratia to 2004 proeklogika, oti qa katarghqei to SDOE, kai to elege me yperhfaneia, pragmatika, to pragmatopoihse. Dystyxws, omws, se baros toy Ellhna polith kai ayto akribws einai mia apo tis aities poy fqasame mexris edw. Prepei na yparxoyn foroeispraktikoi mhxanismoi, mhxanismoi oi opoioi elegxoyn th forologhtea ylh, giati einai qema koinwnikhs dikaiosynhs. Den mporoyn kapoioi na plhrwnoyn epeidh fainontai ta eisodhmata toys kai kapoioi, epeidh den yparxoyn mhxanismoi apo to kratos, na mhn plhrwnoyn kai na forodiafeygoyn. Einai qema koinwnikhs dikaiosynhs kai ayth thn apokaqista h shmerinh kybernhsh.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Se mia periodo poy h kybernhsh exei kocei toys misqoys, efarmozontas to mnhmonio, poia einai h apoch sas gia ola poy emfanisthkan apo to ``poqen esxes'' twn politikwn;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, prokeitai gia mia diafanh diadikasia kai exei kai th shmasia toy ayto. To oti anakoinwnontai oi dhlwseis, giati peri dhlwsewn prokeitai, twn politikwn gia to ``poqen esxes'' toys, exei mia shmasia. Apo ekei kai pera, omws, emeis exoyme desmeytei gia dyo pragmata: Exei desmeytei to PASOK na anasynqesei thn epitroph poy elegxei to ``poqen esxes'', wste ta melh ths na mhn einai kata pleiochfia boyleytes, poy shmainei oti qa yparxei diafaneia kai antikeimenikothta. Kai fysika, meta apo th deoysa syntagmatikh anaqewrhsh, otan ginei, na metatrapei ayth se anejarthth Arxh, prokeimenoy, ektos apo th dhlwsh thn opoia ypoballoyme emeis poy asxoloymaste me thn politikh, na prokyptei kai to ``poqen''. Einai poly shmantiko. H diafaneia, eidika se aytes tis epoxes einai epibeblhmenh, giati qa prepei na peistei o ellhnikos laos oti kai oi qysies poy yfistatai pianoyn topo, ypo thn ennoia oti aytes tis qysies qa prepei na tis yfistantai oi pantes.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, afoy lete ``h diafaneia einai epibeblhmenh'', o kosmos katalabainei oti stis epixeirhseis, sta fysika proswpa, phgainei to SDOE, phgainoyn oi eforiakoi, kanoyn elegxoys kai proxwraei kai h peraiwsh. Giati den dinete mia entolh, oi forologikoi mhxanismoi poy yparxoyn na elegjoyn to ``poqen'' twn politikwn; Edw yparxoyn para polloi prwhn ypoyrgoi, politikoi, oi opoioi emfanizoyn terastia eisodhmata kai kaneis den jerei apo poy breqhkan ayta.

PETALWTHS: Gi` ayto, akribws, emeis pisteyoyme oti qa prepei na yparjei mia diaforetikh antimetwpish. Kai fysika me toys shmerinoys forologikoys mhxanismoys, den yparxei periptwsh na elegxqei to ``poqen esxes'' twn politikwn. Qa yparxei tetoia kaxypocia poy qa akyrwnei to olo egxeirhma ej` arxhs.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Giati den yparxei periptwsh;

PETALWTHS: Gi` ayto qeloyme sto telos na yparxei h anejarthth Arxh. Apaiteitai syntagmatikh anaqewrhsh, alla to prwto bhma poy qa kanoyme, einai na diasfalisoyme oti h epitroph h opoia elegxei to ``poqen esxes'', na einai kata to dynaton antikeimenikoterh kai na mhn einai kata pleiochfia boyleytes, wste na yparxei plhrhs diafaneia se ola.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Dhladh, me ayta poy lete twra, o kosmos katalabainei oti oi politikoi einai pio panw apo toys polites. Den elegxontai apo toys eforiakoys.

PETALWTHS: Ayto poy lew, einai akribws oti prepei na enisxyqei o mhxanismos poy elegxei to ``poqen esxes'' twn politikwn, giati h stoixeiwdhs logikh, shmera, etsi opws einai oi foroeispraktikoi mhxanismoi, einai oti qa yparxei mia megalh kaxypocia gia to an qa ginei o elegxos twn politikwn. Emeis, akribws, ayth th diadikasia kai aytoys toys mhxanismoys enisxyoyme kai qa toys enisxysoyme.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Me sygxwreite, den yparxoyn pente stelexh mesa sto SDOE h mesa stis efories, na kanete mia epitroph kai na elegjoyn 300 prwhn ypoyrgoys kai boyleytes;

PETALWTHS: Qeloyme, epiqymoyme, kai ayto qa ginei, na einai enisxymenhs synqeshs kai akras enisxymenhs antikeimenikothtas.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Thn allh tetraetia.

PETALWTHS: Oxi. Jekinhsame prin apo 11 mhnes, exoyme kanei toses megales allages, poy kaneis den mporoyse na dianohqei. Oxi thn allh tetraetia. Ayto einai stis proteraiothtes mas.

BITALHS: Qa epanelqw se ena apo ta qemata poy qesate eseis, anaforika me ton k. Skylakakh. Hqela na rwthsw kati: Xqes to brady, akoysa kai egw kai ypoqetw kai arketos allos kosmos, ton epishmo ypochfio toy PASOK gia thn perifereia Attikhs, k. Sgoyro, na dhlwnei oti einai enantia sto mnhmonio, mia ebdomada peripoy meta, ap` otan o Prwqypoyrgos sth Qessalonikh ejhghse toys logoys poy eimaste sto mnhmonio kai prepei na askhsoyme ayth thn politikh. Yparxei, estw, kapoio hqiko qema me ton k. Sgoyro;

PETALWTHS: Den yparxei hqiko qema me ton k. Sgoyro. Apomonwsate mia frash apo mia sygkekrimenh apoch poy ejefrase o k. Sgoyros kai poy einai apoch olwn mas: Oti qa htan poly kalo na mhn yphrxe anagkh na yparxei mnhmonio. Den einai kaneis yper toy mnhmonioy aytotelws. Alla, otan yparxei h sygkekrimenh anagkh, tote to mnhmonio pragmatika einai swthrio gia th xwra. To mnhmonio einai apotelesma mias poly megalhs prospaqeias poy kaname, einai apotelesma mias prospaqeias poy ekane olh h Eyrwph kai antelhfqh, estw me thn asxhmh prwtoporia ths xwras mas, oti qa prepei na yparxei enas eyrwpaikos mhxanismos sthrijhs. Akomh kai shmera kai ta dieqnh Mesa kai analytes kai politikoi ths Eyrwphs, anaferontai sth shmasia aytoy toy eyrwpaikoy mhxanismoy sthrijhs. O k. Sgoyros eipe to aytonohto. Kai an diabasei kaneis ayta poy eipe se olh thn paragrafo poy anaferqhke sto mnhmonio, antilambanetai kai ti eipe.

SIDERHS: Den exw katalabei, se sxesh kai me to qema toy k. Sgoyroy -diadikastikh diafora yparxei- poia einai h pragmatikh diafora ths ypoqeshs Skylakakh me thn ypoqesh twn triwn oi opoioi diagrafhsan. Kai poia einai kai h diafora ths ypoqeshs Skylakakh me toy k. Sgoyroy, o opoios eipe to aytonohto, alla ton qalpete, den ton diagrafete.

PETALWTHS: Na diagracoyme ton k. Sgoyro, o opoios eipe ayto poy leme oloi mas; Sas eipa oti o k. Sgoyros den eipe kati diaforetiko ap` ayto poy leme oloi mas.

SIDERHS: Qa qelate na mas peite poia einai h poiotikh diafora ths ypoqeshs Skylakakh me thn ypoqesh twn triwn;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, den exei kamia sxesh to ena me to allo. Einai plhrhs anatroph aytwn poy eipe o arxhgos ths Neas Dhmokratias, ayto ekane o k. Skylakakhs. O de k. Sgoyros eipe ayto to opoio leme oloi mas: Makari na mhn yphrxe anagkh na yparxei mnhmonio. Ap` th stigmh, omws, poy exei anagkes h xwra, sygkekrimenes anagkes, einai epibeblhmeno na yparxei.

MPOTWNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, gia toys idiokthtes forthgwn dhmosias xrhsews qelw na rwthsw. Einai sto dromo kai qa einai, opws lene, sto dromo -den jerw twra an einai sto Syntagma ayth thn wra- kai gia tis epomenes hmeres. Den exoyn katalabei ti leei h kybernhsh, gi` ayto einai sto dromo kai pws qa antimetwpisete eseis thn talaipwria ayth twn xiliadwn Aqhnaiwn poy qeloyn na kateboyn sto kentro;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, eimaste apofasismenoi na chfisoyme to nomosxedio. Einai mia sygkekrimenh epilogh poy den mas thn epibalei h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Oytws h allws eimaste h monadikh xwra ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs poy exei kleista epaggelmata. Emeis anoigoyme to epaggelma twn idiokthtwn forthgwn me ena nomosxedio me to opoio diasfalizoyme thn koinwnikh dikaiosynh, th diafaneia sto qesmiko plaisio kai ton ygih anempodisto antagwnismo, etsi wste na mporoyn ayth th doyleia na thn askoyn oloi oi polites ths xwras mas. Apo ekei kai pera, den qa prepei na yperbaloyme. Einai gnwsto oti yparxoyn kinhtopoihseis. Emeis exoyme pragmatopoihsei enan ejantlhtiko dialogo, exoyme dwsei sygkekrimenes elafrynseis kai kinhtra, exoyme problecei trieth metabatikh periodo, wste oi idiokthtes forthgwn na mporesoyn na ryqmisoyn kai th zwh toys apo edw kai pera. Toys exoyme dwsei forologika kai anaptyjiaka kinhtra, wste na mhn apostoyn apo thn asfaleia toy epaggelmatos toys. Ayth th stigmh omws, opws kai oles tis hmeres, h trofodosia ths agoras ginetai anempodista, parolo poy yparxoyn kinhtopoihseis, h kykloforia einai eleyqerh kai fysika to nomosxedio chfizetai ayrio kai meqayrio.

MPOTWNHS: Den fantazomai oti oi Ellhnes qeloyn na ginoyn forthgatzhdes, alla giati...

PETALWTHS: Alla, osoi qeloyn na ginoyn, qa prepei na mporoyn na ginoyn.

MPOTWNHS: Na mporoyn, swsta. Apla, qelw na pw epeidh yparxei talaipwria kai epeidh yparxei emporikh tajh, anqrwpoi poy blepw kaqhmerina, diamartyrontai oti yparxoyn elleiceis sta soyper-market, se farmakeia, pantoy. Yparxoyn problhmata.

PETALWTHS: Ayto poy mas diabebaiwnoyn einai oti den yparxoyn elleiceis sta soyper market, oyte sta farmakeia, oyte poyqena. Yparxei anempodisth kykloforia kai anempodisth roh proiontwn. Apo ekei kai pera, yparxei h astynomia, yparxei h Dikaiosynh, h opoia exei sygkekrimena kaqhkonta kai ta opoia safws prepei na askhsei.

XIDIROGLOY: Qa hqela na to dw egw proswpika kai na qesw ena erwthma gia to idio qema, gia toys idiokthtes twn forthgwn, apo mia allh skopia. Anoigete, ws kybernhsh, ta legomena kleista epaggelmata. Mhpws, loipon, ayto to peribohto anoigma twn epaggelmatwn bohqa sto na katastalei h dynatothta koinwnikwn omadwn na diapragmateyontai me thn ejoysia kai na apotrepoyn dysmeneis, eis baros toys, meqodeyseis; Kai to rwtaw, se kapoion o opoios ekproswpei mia sosialistikh kybernhsh. Epiqymeite mia koinwnia xwris syntexnies kai syndikata;

PETALWTHS: O syndikalismos, gia na ejetasoyme to qema genikotera, einai ena qemelio ths Dhmokratias. Ean den yphrxe syndikalismos, polla apo ayta ta opoia xairomaste shmera kai qewroyme aytonohta den qa yphrxan. Apo ekei kai pera, to na anoijoyn ta epaggelmata, ta opoia einai kleista, gia ta opoia plhrwnoyme kaqhmerina prostima sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh kai ta opoia empodizoyn ton antagwnismo, akribainontas poly th zwh mas - giati yparxei kai h kostologhsh ti shmainei se kaqe noikokyrio, kaqe xrono, to na yparxoyn ayta ta kleista epaggelmata poy yparxoyn- den exei kamia sxesh me peristolh twn syndikalistikwn eleyqeriwn. Emeis, timame, isa-isa se opoiodhpote zhthma syndialegomaste, diapragmateyomaste me ta swmateia, me ta syndikalistika organa. Emeis eimaste aytoi poy exoyme anoijei to qesmo ths diaboyleyshs, mexri shmeioy na kathgorhqoyme. Ayto, omws, den exei na kanei me th sygkekrimenh mas stash apenanti se tetoioy eidoys qemata.

GARGALAKOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, toys teleytaioys mhnes exoyn ginei dyo bombistikes epiqeseis sto projeneio ths Toyrkias sth Qessalonikh. Pws sxoliazei h kybernhsh ayto to qema;

PETALWTHS: Exoyme janamilhsei gi` ayto to qema. Ekeino to opoio mporoyme na poyme, gia allh mia fora, einai oti den mporoyn kapoioi, en onomati kapoias ypotiqemenhs ideologias, na diakindyneyoyn kai na amfisbhtoyn thn asfaleia astynomikwn. Apo ekei kai pera, einai kai qema kaqws plhttetai h dieqnhs eikona ths xwras mas. Kai fysika to kako poy ginetai einai diplo gia th xwra mas. Kai ayto emeis den qa to epitrecoyme. H astynomia exei proxwrhsei se oles tis aparaithtes energeies gia th syllhch twn drastwn kai pisteyoyme kai prosdokoyme oti syntoma qa yparjei aponomh ths Dikaiosynhs.

PITTARAS: Qelw na rwthsw, me bash kati poy eipe o Prwqypoyrgos apo th Nea Yorkh, oti einai etoimos na proxwrhsei se idiwtikopoihseis, se ekpoihsh dhmosias perioysias. Malista olo ayto to pragma aggizei kai to xreos, ayta ta 270 dis eyrw. Mporeite na mas peite poio einai ayto to paketo idiwtikopoihsewn poy exete etoimo sto syrtari sas;

PETALWTHS: H ajiopoihsh ths dhmosias perioysias einai ena genikotero zhthma kai den einai monon idiwtikopoihsh. Gnwrizoyme para poly kala, oti yparxei megalh akinhth perioysia toy dhmosioy, h opoia den einai anagkh na ekpoihqei. Den milame gia ekpoihsh. Emeis milame gia ajiopoihsh ths dhmosias perioysias, opoy stis kalyteres periptwseis einai anekmetalleyth apo to dhmosio kai se polles periptwseis einai katapathmenh h th lymainontai diafora symferonta. Ayto einai apotelesma mias adraneias ths Politeias, h opoia anagetai se polles dekaeties. Pisteyoyme oti to ellhniko kratos exei ypoxrewsh na proxwrhsei se ajiopoihsh ayths ths perioysias. Apo ekei kai pera, qeloyme na mpei ena telos stis paqogeneies kai tis agkylwseis toy parelqontos. Eimaste apofasismenoi na ajiopoihsoyme th dhmosia perioysia se ola ta epipeda, prokeimenoy kai na th diafylajoyme alla kai to ellhniko dhmosio na exei esoda ap` ayth thn ajiopoihsh.

PITTARAS: Epipleon, o k. Papandreoy rwthqhke polles fores kai den apanthse, ean qa yparjei epektash toy mnhmonioy kai peran toy 2013. Mhpws eseis exete na mas dwsete mia apanthsh;

PETALWTHS: To exei pei o k. Papandreoy kai to exei pei olh h kybernhsh polles fores: Den yparxei periptwsh epektashs toy mnhmonioy gia meta to 2013. Exoyme sygkekrimenoys stoxoys oi opoioi throyntai aparegklita kai fysika den yparxei logos na syzhtame gia epektash. Den tiqetai tetoio zhthma.

SIDERHS: Qa erqei kainoyrgio dhladh;

PETALWTHS: Oxi, den qa erqei kainoyrgio. Qa teleiwsei ekei.

MOSXOBAS: Mporeite na moy peite tote, ti diafora exete eseis apo ton k. Alogoskoyfh; Otan ekeinos poyloyse kratikh perioysia, legate oti ekpoiei ashmika. Ti eginan twra ta ashmika, epargyra;

PETALWTHS: H diafora mas einai qemeliwdhs. Den poylame dhmosia perioysia. Emeis leme: Ajiopoioyme th dhmosia perioysia. Kai fysika, to pws antilambanotan h Nea Dhmokratia thn ennoia ths dhmosias perioysias kai ths ajiopoihshs, to exei apodeijei me to Batopedi. Ara, apo ayto kai mono, apodeiknyetai oti den exoyme kamia sxesh. Emeis, oyte epitrepoyme oyte qa epitrecoyme jepoylhma ths dhmosias perioysias. Alla, h ajiopoihsh epiballetai, giati teinei kai sth diathrhsh ths.

MOSXOBAS: Sygnwmh, otan lete den poylate, ti ennoeite; Pws den poylate, den exete poylhsei; To PASOK htan ayto poy poylhse to pososto toy OTE, to PASOK einai ayto poy syzhtaei na poylhsei kai o idios o k. Papandreoy eipe xqes apo th Nea Yorkh oti qa poylhsei - h qa ajiopoihsei.

PETALWTHS: Loipon, opoy milame ``eipate na poylhsei'' shmainei ajiopoihsh. Ayto einai jekaqaro, me oroys diafaneias kai einai poly megalh h diafora mas apo th Nea Dhmokratia.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Tote, giati espeyse o Prwqypoyrgos na kanei apotimhsh kai na milhsei gia 270 dis eyrw; Ara, exoyn kostologhqei kai pane gia poylhma. Giati eipe oti me ta 270 dis eyrw einai isodyname me to xreos poy exei h xwra.

PETALWTHS: Ayto den shmainei oti poylietai h dhmosia perioysia. An ajiopoihqei yparxei h ektimhsh oti toso qa einai to kerdos ths xwras.

QEODWROPOYLOS: O xwros toy Ellhnikoy einai mesa stis proqeseis ths kybernhshs gia ajiopoihsh;

PETALWTHS: Ennoeitai oti qa ajiopoihqei kai o xwros toy Ellhnikoy. Gnwrizoyme, omws, se ti oikonomikes synqhkes briskomaste kai fysika qa ejyphrethqei to dhmosio symferon me ton artiotero tropo kai se ayth thn periptwsh.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Oi monades ths DEH;

PETALWTHS: Exoyme anaferqei se ayto.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Ti exete pei, akribws;

PETALWTHS: Exoyme apanthsei ep aytoy, edw sto briefing, prin peripoy apo ena mhna.

KOYTRAS: Jerete poia einai ta akinhta toy dhmosioy; Exei ginei h katagrafh; Ta gnwrizei h kybernhsh; H aplws syzhtame oti yparxoyn 270 dis eyrw; Gnwrizei h kybernhsh ta akinhta toy dhmosioy;

PETALWTHS: Den einai qema ths kybernhshs, einai qema toy kratoys, to opoio den gnwrizei thn perioysia poy exei. Gi` ayto, akribws, leme oti einai kati to poly eyrytero ayto poy qeloyme na kanoyme. Prokeitai na ginei katagrafh ths dhmosias perioysias. Bebaiws, as mh jexname oti ayto den einai toso aplo, oso mporei na to pei kapoios. Giati ena poly megalo meros ths dhmosias perioysias den prokyptei apo poyqena. Opws kai ena megalo meros ths idiwtikhs perioysias den prokyptei apo poyqena. Yparxoyn nomika zhthmata, einai, omws, qema boylhshs ths Politeias na ta jekaqarisei kapote, etsi wste na mhn amfisbhteitai kai h perioysia idiwtwn, alla na einai jekaqaro kai to dhmosio poia perioysia katexei.

POLYMEROS: Eipate prin oti den yparxei periptwsh epektashs toy mnhmonioy, peran toy 2013. Yparxei periptwsh na doyme thn Ellada na daneizetai, apeleyqerwmenh apo to mnhmonio kai me xamhla spread katw apo tis 1000 monades, konta stis 400-500; Yparxei tetoia periptwsh;

PETALWTHS: Oxi aplws yparxei periptwsh, aytos einai o stoxos mas. O stoxos mas einai na bgoyme stis agores, oso to dynaton syntomotera kai prin to peras toy mnhmonioy. Oytws h allws einai poly epikairh h erwthsh sas. H shmerinh dhmoprasia phge ejairetika me epitokio 3,98% kai yperkalych 6,25 fores enanti 3,85 ths prohgoymenhs dhmoprasias. Kai malista, to ajioshmeiwto einai oti kata 72% oi ependytes htan jenoi, poy shmainei oti anaktoyme bhma-bhma thn ajiopistia ths xwras mas. Einai shmerina ayta.

STRATAKHS: Hqela na rwthsw, pws mporeite na peisete ton kosmo oti den qa einai jepoylhma ths dhmosias perioysias kai ajiopoihsh, otan kathgoreite ton k. Alogoskoyfh gia prajeis jepoylhmatos; Kai oi epiloges Alogoskoyfh, akomh kai se proswpa p.x. o OTE den exoyn peiraxqei kai poreyontai ws eixan apo thn epoxh Alogoskoyfh;

PETALWTHS: To megalytero meros ths erwthshs sas to exw kalycei apantwntas se prohgoymenh erwthsh synadelfoy sas. Oson afora ston OTE, yparxei mia diadikasia. Opws gnwrizete, o OTE den einai kratikh etairia, einai anwnymh etairia kai yparxei enas sygkekrimenos tropos na orizontai oi dieyqynontes symboyloi kai ta stelexh. Ara, emeis eimaste nomimoi kai den mporoyme, fysika, na kanoyme toy kefalioy mas, epeidh mas aresei h den mas aresei kapoios.

PAPPA: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qelw na epanelqw sto poqen esxes twn politikwn. Syxna o Prwqypoyrgos leei oti katanoei th dyskolia twn misqwtwn kai twn syntajioyxwn, poy perikobontai oi misqoi toys. Qa hqela na rwthsw, qewreite oti katanooyn oi polites thn apanthsh poy dwsate, oti dhladh o yparxon mhxanismos den mporei na kanei ton elegxo se pamploytoys ypoyrgoys, yfypoyrgoys kai politikoys;

PETALWTHS: Prwta apo ola, na pw oti oi ekdoxes poy exoyn anakoinwqei gia to poqen esxes twn politikwn - xwris na shmainei tipote ayto epi ths oysias - einai diafores. Akomh kai sto diko moy poqen esxes eida shmera tesseris diaforetikes ekdoxes kai amfiballw an einai kapoia h opoia antapokrinetai sthn pragmatikothta. Apo ekei kai pera, gnwrizoyme oti ayth einai h katastash. Ayth th dhlwsh poqen esxes th blepei o ellhnikos laos kaqe xrono. Kai emeis eimaste aytoi poy erxomaste gia na poyme oti to allazoyme. Oti qa stamathsoyme, pleon, na exoyme anakoinwseis kapoiwn dhlwsewn, oi opoies den elegxontai pote. Kai isa, isa katanoei o ellhnikos laos kai prepei na katanohsei, na antilhfqei, oti emeis erxomaste na allajoyme ayth thn atimwrhsia. Na allajoyme ayth thn kata dhlwsh perioysias twn politikwn. Kai ayto qa to kanoyme, etsi wste na elegxetai kai apo poy prohlqan aytes oi perioysies kai fysika ean einai nomimos o tropos poy katexontai shmera. Ayto prepei na to antilhfqoyme.

PAPPA: Me sygxwreite, k. Ekproswpe, omws qelw na sas pw oti o ellhnikos laos ayto poy katanoei einai oti ta synhqh qymata plhrwnoyn kai otan milame gia megales perioysies, estw kai an aytes aforoyn politikoys, pane stis kalendes, na to doyme argotera.

PETALWTHS: Ayto ginotan mexri twra. Ayto sas anefera, oti ayth h taktikh allazei. Fysika, den mporoyme na poinikopoihsoyme kapoion politiko poy exei megalh perioysia. To qema einai na thn katexei nomima kai fysika na mhn prokyptei apo poyqena oti xrhsimopoihse mesa ta opoia einai paranoma, emeis leme akomh kai aqemita.

KOYTRAS: Poy to jeroyme ayto;

PETALWTHS: Ayto lew, oti ayth th stigmh den to gnwrizoyme. Gia ayto emeis exoyme desmeytei kai qa to kanoyme: na dhmioyrghsoyme ekeino ton mhxanismo, o opoios me antikeimenikothta kai diafaneia qa elegxei to ``poqen'', kyriws, twn politikwn.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge dinete thn entypwsh oti den qelete na toys elegjete. Ayth thn entypwsh dinete.

PETALWTHS: Den sas eipa oti ayth th stigmh etsi opws einai to poqen esxes twn politikwn, den elegxetai me ton tropo poy qa prepei na elegxetai; Emeis desmeyomaste oti qa dhmioyrghsoyme toys mhxanismoys gia na elegxetai.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Sto mellon.

PETALWTHS: Sas eipa oti as analogistoyme ti kaname stoys enteka mhnes. Apo th stigmh poy desmeyomaste, emeis qa to kanoyme.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Giati me ena koympi, mporei na elegxqei enas anqrwpos poy exei ekato ekatommyria perioysia...

PETALWTHS: Den elegxetai. To qema einai oti kai aytos poy exei ekato ekatommyria perioysia, me ena koympi, den elegxetai.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Nai, alla den kanete anejarthth arxh, gia na ton elegjete omws. Stelnete to SDOE.

PETALWTHS: Opoios zei se ayth thn koinwnia kai se ayth th xwra, gnwrizei poly kala poies einai oi paqogeneies twn foroeispraktikwn kai foroelegktikwn mhxanismwn. Emeis, prwton, apokaqistoyme aytoys toys mhxanismoys, kai deyteron, enisxyoyme akomh perissotero toys mhxanismoys, oi opoioi qa elegxoyn to poqen esxes twn politikwn. Einai jekaqaro kai safestato.

MIXAHL: To PASOK symfwnei o k. Karamanlhs shmera na paei sthn epitroph gia thn ejetastikh.

PETALWTHS: Einai qema ths epitrophs.

MIXAHL: H protash sas.

PETALWTHS: To apogeyma synedriazei h epitroph kai qa apofasisei ep aytoy.

MIXAHL: Poios einai akribws o qesmikos rolos toy k. Rontoy; Giati exqes o k. Droytsas eipe oti o k. Rontos synomilei me thn pleyra twn Skopiwn gia thn epilysh toy onomatos, xwris o idios na exei organwsei kamia epishmh diapragmateysh ws armodios ypoyrgos.

PETALWTHS: O k. Droytsas eipe alla. Sygnwmh alla gnwrizw poly kala tis dhlwseis. Yparxei mia qesmoqethmenh diadikasia gia syzhthsh gia to onoma twn Skopiwn. Einai gnwsth h diadikasia mesw toy OHE. Hdh kai shmera gia ayto to logo yphrje kai synanthsh toy Ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn me ton k. Nimits sthn Amerikh. Apo ekei kai pera, h qesh ths Elladas einai jekaqarh: Mia onomasia me gewgrafiko prosdiorismo enanti olwn. Ayto den allazei kai fysika ayth einai h diadikasia h opoia akoloyqeitai. O k. Droytsas, epeidh rwthqhke eidika gia ton k. Ronto, eipe oti kapoios mporei na metaferei mhnymata giati gnwrizei thn olh ypoqesh, ayto einai teleiws diaforetiko apo ayto poy eipate. Den yparxei parallhlh diadikasia kai sigoyra den yparxei kai mystikh diplwmatia.

MIXAHL: Poios akribws einai o qesmikos rolos toy k. Rontoy. Einai symboylos Prwqypoyrgoy; Qesmika.

PETALWTHS: Apanthse o k. Droytsas.

MIXAHL: Idiothta zhtaw egw toy k. Rontoy. Einai symboylos toy Prwqypoyrgoy; Einai symboylos toy ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn; Einai symboylos ths kybernhshs, genika; Einai symboylos kapoy; Ti einai o k. Rontos, dhladh;

PETALWTHS: Den einai symboylos kai den kanei parallhles diadikasies opws lete.

XIDIROGLOY: Na perasw se ena allo qema, giati qewrw oti aptetai poly ths poiothtas ths zwhs twn politwn. H astynomia jylokophse gynaikes kai paidia sta Nea Liosia poy diamartyrontan gia thn egklhmatikothta kai gia ena poly sobaro peristatiko to opoio egine. H erwthsh moy einai h ejhs: Prwton giati h ellhnikh astynomia anti na jylokopei polites gynaikes kai paidia den katastellei thn egklhmatikothta stis perioxes opoy yparxei problhma. Kai deyteron an h kybernhsh xrhsimopoiei thn ELAS tropon tina, gia na epiballei koinwnika montela ta opoia eyaggelizetai.

PETALWTHS: Prwta apo ola h ellhnikh astynomia leitoyrgei me enan dhmokratiko tropo. Ayto einai anamfisbhthto. Den mporoyme na dexqoyme oti jylokopei gynaikes kai paidia.

XIDIROGLOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, to kataggelloyn oi idioi oi polites.

PETALWTHS: An yparxei kataggelia, yparxoyn ta armodia eswterika organa, ta opoia qa th diereynhsoyn. Einai gnwsto oti yparxoyn yphresies kai fysika yparxei kai Dikaiosynh. Kai epeidh to na isopedwnoyme, pera apo laikistiko einai kai katastrofiko gia thn idia thn poiothta ths Dhmokratias. Sas eipa oti h ellhnikh astynomia leitoyrgei dhmokratika.

TSAKIRHS: Prin eipate oti to kratos den gnwrizei thn perioysia poy exei kai oti prepei na ginei katagrafh ths perioysias toy. Dhladh, qelete na mas peite oti o Prwqypoyrgos phge sth Wall Street, phge sth Nea Yorkh kai eipe gia 270 dis. Eyrw, xwris na jerei poia einai h perioysia toy kratoys. Etsi proselkyete eseis ependyseis sth xwra;

PETALWTHS: Prwta apo ola, einai teleiws asxeto kai asyndeto to ena me to allo. Ekeino to opoio eipa kai poy gnwrizoyn oi pantes, einai oti h Ellada prwton, den exei oloklhrwmeno kthmatologio, poy shmainei oti den mporei na gnwrizei akribws thn idiwtikh kai dhmosia akinhth perioysia se ena poly megalo meros ths. Apo ekei kai pera, sas eipa oti yparxoyn amfisbhtoymenes ektaseis toso megalhs ajias poy enw kanonika qa eprepe na yparxoyn kratikes yphresies poy na diasfalizoyn ayth thn perioysia, dystyxws polles fores aytes oi yphresies den kanoyn th doyleia toys. Kai sas efera ena paradeigma, thn ypoqesh Batopedioy. Apo ekei kai pera epeidh yparxoyn meizona nomika zhthmata, texnika kai diadikastika, hdh kai h Kthmatikh Etairia toy Dhmosioy morfopoieitai se tetoio epipedo, etsi wste pragmatika, toylaxiston thn akinhth perioysia na mporei na thn diafylassei, na thn prostateyei kai kyriws, prwta apo ola, na thn katagracei. Ayth einai h pragmatikothta. Exoyme mia pragmatikothta, thn opoia oyte na ejwraisoyme mporoyme, oyte kai prepei.

TSAKIRHS: Milate gia 270 dis. xwris na gnwrizete thn perioysia sas.

PETALWTHS: Giati sas eipe kaneis oti opoia perioysia yparxei sto kratos qa ekpoihqei h qa ajiopoihqei; Leme oti me sygkekrimena krithria h ajiopoihsh dhmosias perioysias, mporei na apoferei ayto to xrhmatiko poson.

TSAKIRHS: Ayto lew. Pws to ektimate otan den jerete thn perioysia sas.

PETALWTHS: Egw sas eipa oti to ellhniko kratos den gnwrizei thn perioysia poy katexei synolika. Kai kyriws milaw gia thn akinhth perioysia. Den eipe kaneis oti h kinhth kai akinhth perioysia toy kratoys einai 270 dis. Einai teleiws diaforetiko.

KOYTRAS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, twra poy stelexh ths Troikas dhmosiws eipan oti to meigma poy akoloyqeitai sthn Ellada den einai pros thn swsth kateyqynsh, yparxei kapoios sxediasmos allaghs toy meigmatos polikhs sthn oikonomia;

PETALWTHS: Den gnwrizw se ti anafereste.

KOYTRAS: Ston k. Stros - Kan.

PETALWTHS: Dystyxws, epeidh edw kai enan xrono eimaste sto epikentro, milane polloi gia ola kai lene diafora gia thn ellhnikh oikonomia. Kapoia einai etsi, kapoia pragmata apomonwnontai. Emeis ayto poy kanoyme aparegklita einai na ylopoioyme toys stoxoys. Aytoys toys stoxoys poy balame ean kataferoyme na toys ylopoihsoyme, kai fainetai mexri stigmhs oti toys ylopoioyme, qa bgoyme apo th krish, fysika afhnontas kai tis megales allages poy kanoyme sygxronws.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Xqes o k. Prwqypoyrgos kalwntas toys ependytes sth Wall Street na erqoyn sthn Ellada na ependysoyn, milhse gia tis allages kai tis metarryqmiseis poy exoyn ginei sto ergasiako kaqestws. Einai stoys sxediasmoys ths kybernhshs na yparjoyn epixeirhsiakes symbaseis me toys ependytes poy qa kanoyn megales ependyseis sthn Ellada, poy qa einai ektos ths Genikhs Syllogikhs Symbashs Ergasias;

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh exei ekfrasei th boylhsh ths gia ta ergasiaka me nomo poy chfise.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Briskomaste konta sthn epilysh toy skopianoy zhthmatos;

PETALWTHS: Emeis exoyme mia staqerh apoch apo thn opoia den parekklinoyme kaqoloy. Einai gnwsth h qesh mas kai sth qesh ayth paramenoyme. Gia ayto akribws, kaloyme kai thn hgesia twn Skopiwn na antilhfqei kai to ofelos ths xwras ths kai na mporesei na dexqei mia tetoia onomasia, poy kai thn idia qa dieykolynei.

XASAPOPOYLOS : Sas rwtaw an briskomaste konta, oxi th qesh ths Elladas, thn ektimhsh ths kybernhshs, giati blepw mia kinhtikothta sthn Nea Yorkh. Gia ayto rwtaw.

PETALWTHS: Ayto poy sas eipa, einai h qesh ths xwras mas. Kai me bash ayth th qesh, emeis eimaste edw. Einai qema ths hgesias twn Skopiwn na antapokriqei.

Sas eyxaristw.

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