Greek Government Press Briefing, 10-05-19

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Tetarth, 19 Maioy 2010

Ariqmos Deltioy: 268348568

Ekdosh 1

BRIEFING(190510)

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 19 Maioy 2010

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri.

Opws gnwrizete, hdh me apofash toy Prwqypoyrgoy, Giwrgoy Papandreoy, yfypoyrgos Politismoy kai Toyrismoy oristhke o boyleyths Dwdekanhswn k. Nikhtiadhs, se ena tomea poy einai idiaitera krisimos kai toy eyxomaste kalh epityxia sto ergo toy.

Sto plaisio ths kaqhmerinhs leitoyrgias ths Politeias mas, qa hqela na kaqhsyxasw toys goneis kai toys maqhtes twn esperinwn lykeiwn gia to qema poy dhmioyrghqhke logw ths ayrianhs panelladikhs apergias. Yparxei hdh merimna, etsi wste oi ejetaseis na diejaxqoyn kanonika kai aproskopta. Den qa yparjei kanena problhma kai fysika eyxomaste kai se ola ta paidia poy dinoyn panellhnies, kalh epityxia.

Epishs, sxetika me to zhthma poy exei prokycei me toys asfalismenoys toy IKA, diabebaiwnoyme oti den yparxei kanena qema apwleias hmerwn asfalishs toys. Oi asfalismenoi, se kaqe periptwsh, exoyn diasfalisei ta dikaiwmata toys kai diathroyn thn asfalish toys, anejarthta an exei katabalei o ergodoths tis eisfores poy eprepe na katabalei. Ara, den prepei na anhsyxei kaneis asfalismenos gia to logo ayto.

Peran toytoy, qa hqela na sas enhmerwsw gia th drash toy ypoyrgeioy Politismoy kai Toyrismoy se sxesh me thn Etaireia Toyristikwn Akinhtwn, opoy egine elegxos kai exoyn breqei para polles atasqalies. Ena shmantiko zhthma poy exei na kanei me ton idio ton toyrismo mas, me tis ypodomes, me thn idia thn anaptyjh kai thn oikonomia alla kai th diafaneia. Eidikotera, diapistwqhke oti h etaireia katefeyge syxna se symbaseis ergasias kai symbaseis ergoy, oi opoies oysiastika htan apeyqeias anaqeseis, epikaloymenh dhqen epeigoyses periptwseis. Opws yparxei problhma kai me toys dikhgoroys kai ta dikhgorika grafeia poy epi pente xronia apasxoloyse h etaireia, pera apo toys dikhgoroys me pagia antimisqia. Yparxoyn qemata kakodiaxeirishs, proslhchs dieyqyntwn, leitoyrgikwn ejodwn yper-pollaplasiwn se sygkekrimena ypokatasthmata.

Sto plaisio toy elegxoy ths diafaneias, ths orqhs diaxeirishs kai ths patajhs ths kataspatalhshs toy dhmosioy xrhmatos, to ypoyrgeio Politismoy kai Toyrismoy exei kanei shmantika bhmata pros thn kateyqynsh ths diafaneias. Qa yparjoyn syntoma sxetikes anakoinwseis kai eidikotera oson afora ston toyrismo, thn Etaireia Toyristikwn Akinhtwn, ta leitoyrgika ejoda gia thn ERT kai ton politismo, etsi wste na mporesoyme na kanoyme prajh th diafaneia. Peraiterw kai leptomerhs analysh qa pragmatopoihqei apo ton armodio ypoyrgo.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Meta thn antikatastash ths k. Gkerekoy me ton k. Nikhtiadh, apomakrynontai ta senaria, to endexomeno toy anasxhmatismoy; Giati xqes o Prwqypoyrgos apo th Madrith, me ton tropo poy apanthse stoys dhmosiografoys, to eixe afhsei kapws anoixto.

PETALWTHS: Den yparxei kanena endexomeno na ginei anasxhmatismos. To anefera edw kai polles hmeres. Eseis ws dhmosiografoi kala kanate kai amfiballate. Hdh, omws, exei plhrwqei h qesh toy yfypoyrgoy Politismoy kai Toyrismoy kai den epikeitai kanenas anasxhmatismos. Ayto einai dedomeno kai to dhlwnw kathgorhmatika.

PAPPA: Ep` aytoy: Pote qa orkistei, jeroyme;

PETALWTHS: H hmeromhnia den exei orisqei. Opws gnwrizete, o Prwqypoyrgos anaxwrei shmera to apogeyma gia to Libano. Qa anakoinwqei poly syntoma, giati to ergo toy ypoyrgeioy trexei.

TSAKIRHS: Hqela na sas rwthsw, epeidh akoygetai oti qa dhmosieyqoyn syntoma - mallon to Sabbato- stoixeia kai gia allon yfypoyrgo, tote akomh qa epimenete oti den yparxei qema anasxhmatismoy; Pali mono se antikatastash qa pate;

PETALWTHS: Tis teleytaies hmeres diakinoyntai polles fhmes kai yponooymena -kai malista enocei ypotiqemenoy anasxhmatismoy- kati poy anagkase kai thn ypoyrgo Paideias k. Diamantopoyloy, na ekdwsei anakoinwsh. Den yparxoyn ayta ta stoixeia ta opoia ypotiqetai oti yparxoyn. Einai xwris bash kai me kamia aitiologia. Kai malista na tonisw edw, opws anaferei kai h k. Diamantopoyloy sthn anakoinwsh ths, einai lyphro na balletai ypoyrgos Paideias en mesw panellhniwn ejetasewn. Kati poy dhmioyrgei, pragmatika, kai cyxologiko zhthma, alla kai klonismo ths empistosynhs twn maqhtwn kai twn gonewn. Epiteloys, qa prepei na stamathsoyme na asxoloymaste me fhmes kai yponooymena. Etsi apajiwnoyme ton politiko kosmo, etsi apajiwnoyme thn idia thn koinwnia. Opoios exei stoixeia gia opoiodhpote politiko proswpo, as erqei na ta bgalei. Alla, ayth h diaxyth fhmologia einai se baros ths idias ths Politeias kai ths koinwnias.

TSAKIRHS: Egw den sas eipa gia thn k. Diamantopoyloy.

PETALWTHS: Sas to anaferw egw.

TSAKIRHS: Milhsa gia stoixeia gia yfypoyrgo.

PETALWTHS: Den gnwrizw. Eseis exete kapoia stoixeia gia kapoion yfypoyrgo;

TSAKIRHS: Oxi. Akoygetai oti qa dhmosieytoyn to Sabbato. Ayto sas lew.

PETALWTHS: Emeis den exoyme kanena tetoio stoixeio. Anagnwrizw oti kapoioi qa prepei na proselkysoyn anagnwstes, akroates kai thleqeates, alla ola exoyn kai ena orio.

SIDERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, to PASOK otan eixe prwtoerqei ekane shmantikes allages sto oikogeneiako dikaio. Fqasame twra, mia yfypoyrgos na apopempetai apo thn kybernhsh, estw kai oikeia boylhsei, epeidh o syzygos ths eixe diafores me thn eforia h eixe forologikes atasqalies. Poso dikaio einai ayto kai poso katoxyrwnetai h aytonomh qesh ths gynaikas mesa sthn oikogeneia; Efarmosate thn oikogeneiakh eyqynh.

PETALWTHS: Den egine etsi. Sthn anakoinwsh poy bgalame, ws kybernhsh, analyoyme kai ejhgoyme giati o Prwqypoyrgos ekane dekth thn paraithsh ths k. Gkerekoy, mias yfypoyrgoy poy ofeilw na pw kai apo ayto to bhma, oti prosfere polla sto ypoyrgeio ths kai eixe na prosferei akomh polla perissotera. Apo ekei kai pera, einai synolikotero to zhthma, to opoio afora stis eyqynes twn ypoyrgwn kai exei sxesh kai me ayto poy elega prohgoymenws, me mia fhmologia poy yparxei, h opoia den dhmioyrgei kai to kalytero klima gia ton politiko bio. Opoy yparxei yponoia qa prepei na diereynatai, xwris fysika na fqanoyme se ``karatomhseis'' kai ``anqrwpoqysies''. Ayto einai dedomeno.

FOYRLHS: Yparxei kapoios mhxanismos me ton opoio to komma h h kybernhsh, ypoqetw to komma mallon, o kommatikos mhxanismos, elegxei prokatabolika ta stoixeia, to ``poqen esxes'' epi ths oysias sto PASOK, wste na diapistwnei tetoioy eidoys zhthmata prin kybernhtika stelexh ginoyn boyleytes;

PETALWTHS: Emeis sto PASOK energopoihsame mhxanismo elegxoy toy ``poqen esxes'', otan hmastan antipoliteysh. Kai oxi mono gia toys ypochfioys boyleytes h en dynamei boyleytes kai ypoyrgoys, alla kai gia ta kommatika stelexh, ta opoia diaxeirizontai, toylaxiston, mia kommatikh politikh kai ejoysia. Apo ekei kai pera, omws, gnwrizoyme oti to ``poqen esxes'' twn forologoymenwn Ellhnwn politwn exei polles adynamies. Gi` ayto akribws to logo h kybernhsh pairnei tis prwtoboylies, na anadiatajei to systhma toy ``poqen esxes'' kai stoys politikoys kai stoys aploys polites, etsi wste na mporoyme na to xrhsimopoioyme, opoy xreiazetai. Einai ena zhthma, poy afora tis megales paqogeneies ths ellhnikhs Politeias. Ena zhthma to opoio exei na kanei, omws, kai me to ti forologiko systhma qeloyme. Kai se ayto to forologiko systhma, to opoio egkaqidrysame me to neo forologiko nomo yparxoyn pronoies kai gia to ``poqen esxes'', sto nomosxedio toy Ypoyrgeioy Dikaiosynhs, poy qa symplhrwqei kai me th nomoqetikh problech sto nomo peri eyqynhs ypoyrgwn. Ola ayta einai synqeta kai allhlendeta. Prospaqoyme na ejygianoyme to forologiko systhma kai to systhma ypobolhs kai elegxoy, kyriws, toy ``poqen esxes''.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, otan anelabe h kybernhsh, o armodios ypoyrgos den zhthse enan katalogo me toys megaloys ofeiletes toy dhmosioy, na dei poioi einai ekei; Kai ypoqetw oti kapoios anqrwpos poy xrwstaei 5,5 ekatommyria qa einai mesa se mia tetoia lista. Den fantazomai oti qa leipei apo mia tetoia lista. Ara, ti synebh; Gnwrize h kybernhsh, dia toy ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn kai toy ypoyrgoy Oikonomikwn bebaia, thn ypoqesh ayth kai ara den etreje nwritera ta deonta kai perimene na dhmosieyqei ena tetoio pragma h den gnwrize tipote, pragma to opoio shmainei oti sto ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn caxnoyn me enan tropo etsi, me kaqysterhseis h en pash periptwsei me kena, ayta ta qemata; Dioti h patajh ths forodiafyghs kai h antimetwpish aytwn twn qematwn kai h eisprajh twn bebaiwmenwn ofeilwn - dioti peri aytoy prokeitai- htan apo tis basikes proeklogikes desmeyseis ths kybernhshs, an qymamai kala.

PETALWTHS: Kai einai apo tis proteraiothtes ths kybernhshs. Gnwrizoyme oti yparxei ena systhma, to opoio den leitoyrgei, opws prepei na leitoyrgei. Yphrxe ena nomoqetiko plaisio to opoio den htan isxyro. Emeis to isxyropoioyme kai kyriws isxyropoioyme kai toys elegktikoys mhxanismoys, me tis diastayrwseis tis opoies kanoyme. As mhn paragnwrizoyme omws oti einai polles, ekatontades xiliades oi ofeiletes toy dhmosioy. Apo aytoys yparxei enas megalos ariqmos, einai arketes xiliades, oi megaloofeiletes toy dhmosioy. Ara, den htan eykolo na diastayrwqei, estw kai kata tyxaio tropo, to an yphrxan megales ofeiles se kapoio syzygo ypoyrgoy h yfypoyrgoy. Apo th stigmh, omws, poy hrqe se gnwsh mas to olo zhthma, prajame kai analogws. Yparxei, malista, kai anakoinwsh toy ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn h opoia exei ekdoqei ligo prin th dhlwsh apodoxhs ths paraithshs ths k. Gkerekoy, opoy to ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn exei diatajei enorkh dioikhtikh ejetash, prokeimenoy na elegxqei olh h ypoqesh.

FOYRLHS: Akoygame me endiaferon ta poly kala logia poy eixate na peite gia thn k. Gkerekoy. Omws, anejarthta apo to an to dhmosio kai to PASOK, gia paradeigma, mporoysan na diapistwsoyn to problhma, h k. Gkerekoy ypoqetoyme oti mporoyse na to diapistwsei. Se ayto den eida na anafereste.

PETALWTHS: Anaferqhkame me to oti o Prwqypoyrgos ekane dekth thn paraithsh ths k. Gkerekoy. Nomizw oti ayto ta jekaqarizei ola.

MIXAHL: H kybernhsh exei parei mia prwtoboylia kai exei ferei mia diatajh sth Boylh gia to pws qa ginetai apo edw kai pera h paragrafh twn adikhmatwn, tropopoiwntas to nomo peri eyqynhs ypoyrgwn. Polloi nomikoi, alla kai kommata qewroyn oti einai sta oria ths syntagmatikothtas. Ep` aytoy, qelw na sas rwthsw: Prwton, qa exei anadromikh isxy; Kai deyteron, oi paragrafes qa synteloyntai opws orizei to Syntagma kai o nomos;

PETALWTHS: Ws pros toys politikoys, ennoeite, oi paragrafes;

MIXAHL: Kata kyrio logo nai, giati aytoys afora o nomos peri eyqynhs ypoyrgwn. Den afora toys polites.

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, den prokeitai na feroyme nomoqetikes ryqmiseis, oi opoies einai antisyntagmatikes h paranomes. Opws gnwrizoyme, syntagmatiko dikasthrio den yfistatai sthn ellhnikh ennomh tajh. Synepws, h antisyntagmatikothta elegxetai apo sygkekrimena organa, opws einai to Symboylio ths Epikrateias h elegxetai parempiptontws apo opoiodhpote dikasthrio asxolhqei argotera me th syntagmatikothta enos nomoqethmatos. Emeis, omws, ayto poy exoyme ypoxrewsh na kanoyme, to kanoyme. Fernoyme mia nomoqetikh problech, etsi wste na stamathsei pleon to atimwrhto, oysiastika, twn politikwn proswpwn poy isxyei shmera. Htan programmatikh mas desmeysh, einai safhs boylhsh ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs kai fysika einai kati poy epiqymei kai h ellhnikh koinwnia, prokeimenoy na yparxei h arxh ths ishs aponomhs Dikaiosynhs, na yparxei eynomia kai kyriws na mh ginontai ejaireseis ws pros thn aponomh ths Dikaiosynhs. Einai alhqeia oti yparxei ena synqeto nomiko plaisio. Mesa se ayto to plaisio emeis briskoyme thn kalyterh nomoqetikh lysh, etsi wste pleon na stamathsei to atimwrhto twn politikwn. Ayto einai dedomeno.

PITTARAS: Na sas rwthsw. Ayto poy baryne sthn epilogh toy k. Nikhtiadh htan h prohgoymenh enasxolhsh toy, htan grammateas toy tomea Toyrismoy toy PASOK h jecaxnisate kai to forologiko toy fakelo;

PETALWTHS: Oi epiloges twn ypoyrgwn kai twn yfypoyrgwn ginontai me sygkekrimeno tropo kai einai synqesh pollwn paragontwn kai idiothtwn twn boyleytwn.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Xqes, meta th dhlwsh toy Stros Kan, poy proteine meiwsh misqwn gia na enisxyqei h antagwnistikothta, o ypoyrgos Oikonomikwn sth diarkeia ths Synodoy toy ECOFIN afhse orqanoixto to endexomeno ths meiwshs twn timwn...

PETALWTHS: Twn timwn h twn misqwn;

QEODWROPOYLOS: Twn misqwn, syggnwmh. Einai stoys amesoys stoxoys ths kybernhshs na proxwrhsei se meiwsh misqwn ston idiwtiko tomea;

PETALWTHS: H meiwsh twn misqwn htan ena qema, to opoio teqhke olo ayto to xroniko diasthma poy prospaqoyme na jeperasoyme thn oikonomikh krish kai na mporesoyme na dhmioyrghsoyme synqhkes etsi wste na daneistoyme opws telika mporoyme kai daneizomaste mexri twra. Apo kei kai pera, exoyme sygkekrimenh apoch. Yparxoyn apoceis oti h antagwnistikothta exei amesh sxesh me thn meiwsh twn misqwn. Emeis, exoyme thn apoch oti h antagwnistikothta exei sxesh me megales diaqrwtikes allages poy prepei na ginoyn sto ellhniko dhmosio, sto kratos, alla kai sthn idiwtikh oikonomia kai oti h meiwsh twn misqwn den einai apo toys shmantikoys paragontes, oi opoioi ayjanoyn thn paragwgikothta, otan malista exoyme na kanoyme me mia oikonomikh krish poy ballei perissotero toys ergazomenoys ston idiwtiko tomea, ypo thn ennoia oti den exoyn thn asfaleia poy yparxei sto dhmosio tomea. Htan epilogh mas to na mh meiwqoyn oi misqoi ston idiwtiko tomea kai ayto fanhke.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Gia to ameso mellon yparxei sxediasmos ths kybernhshs; Giati o k. Papakwnstantinoy einai jekaqaros, leei oti se megalo baqmo h antagwnistikothta exei na kanei kai me to misqologiko kostos.

PETALWTHS: Den yparxei tetoios sxediasmos.

MAKRYGIANNHS: O Stros Kan, k. Ekproswpe, se synenteyjh toy sto ``MEGA'' an den apatwmai, eipe oti ayto to programma litothtas kai ta oikonomika metra poy efarmozei h kybernhsh, htan protash ths kybernhshs kai den htan apaithsh toy DNT h ths troikas, en pash periptwsei. Einai alhqes ayto k. Ekproswpe; Dhladh, einai alhqes oti qelete na epiballete ena programma litothtas kai aplws kryfthkate pisw apo thn troika;

PETALWTHS: Nomizw, oti oloi osoi parakoloyqhsame to teleytaio xroniko diasthma tis diergasies sthn ellhnikh oikonomia, eixame diapistwsei oti ginotan diapragmateyseis me thn troika, dhladh, thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, thn Eyrwpaikh Kentrikh Trapeza kai to DNT, panw se sygkekrimena zhthmata. Ennoeitai oti den htan epilogh mas. Ennoeitai oti den htan programmatikh desmeysh mas, thn opoia ylopoioysame oi meiwseis se misqoys h h perikoph twn dwrwn se opoio baqmo perikophkan kai oles aytes oi politikes, oi opoies fernoyn se dyskolh qesh polloys ergazomenoys. Emeis, omws, balame kapoia zhthmata, balame oria se kapoia alla, etsi wste na mhn diataraxqei h koinwnikh synoxh, alla kyriws na yparxei kai apotelesma, bebaiws, me gnwmona to dhmosio symferon. Ennoeitai oti htan proion diapragmateyshs kai ennoeitai oti gia opoies diarqrwtikes allages anaferontai sto Programma Staqerothtas, ekei htan epilogh mas, giati pisteyoyme oti oi megales diarqrwtikes allages, oi opoies qa eprepe na ginoyn edw kai polla xronia, einai aytes oi opoies prepei na ``trejoyn''. Ekeines nai, safws, htan epilogh mas. Alla se o,ti exei na kanei me to eisodhma twn ergazomenwn, edw yphrxe diapragmateysh kai polla shmeia kai stoixeia mesa apo th diapragmateysh emeis ta diorqwsame.

PITTARAS: Qelw na sas rwthsw gia ayth thn ypoqesh poy afora sta ELTA. Kai epeidh diabazoyme oti ekei egine ena megalo fagopoti kai twra zhteitai, akomh, kai to anoigma twn logariasmwn. Eseis ti protiqeste na kanete; Qa doyme onomata; Qa zhthste ta xrhmata pisw apo osoys proxwrhsan se ayth th diaspaqish dhmosioy xrhmatos;

PETALWTHS: Gnwrizoyme oti ta ELTA , dhladh ta ellhnika taxydromeia, to 2004, otan anelabe th diakybernhsh ths xwras h Nea Dhmokratia, htan mexri tote mia kerdofora epixeirhsh. Shmera, dystyxws, briskoyme ta ELTA, mesa apo ena gaitanaki, pragmatika, diafqoras kai pelateiakwn sxesewn, na briskontai se asxhmh oikonomikh katastash. Apo kei poy htan kerdofora, einai zhmiogona. Gi ayto exoyn stalei elegktes Dhmosias Dioikhshs, etsi wste na ginoyn ereynes, na diapistwqoyn oi paratypies kai oi paranomies poy exoyn ginei sth diaxeirish twn ellhnikwn taxydromeiwn kai to porisma qa apostalei sto ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn. Parallhla brisketai se ejelijh h ereyna, katopin entolhs ths dioikhshs twn ELTA, sta oikonomika ths etairias, poy einai ena poly shmantiko pedio, kai malista apo ejwteriko elegktiko oiko. Gnwrizoyme sygkekrimena stoixeia. H Nea Dhmokratia kai sta ellhnika taxydromeia, alla kai se oloys toys organismoys koinhs wfeleias epaije ena poly megalo paixnidi, esthse ena megalo panhgyri kakodiaxeirishs, diafqoras kai pelateiakwn sxesewn. Kai fysika opoy kai otan yparxoyn stoixeia, qa anakoinwnontai.

XIDIROGLOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, se ena allo qema. Edw kai tesseris mhnes brisketai profylakismenos ston Korydallo, o dhmosiografos Dhmhtrhs Papagewrgioy. Qa moy peite gia thn anejarthsia ths Dikaiosynhs. Omws, diapistwnw oti yparxei diafora ston tropo me ton opoio antimetwpizontai dejioi kai aristeroi kai yponomeyetai etsi h isonomia. Qa hqela, loipon, na rwthsw pws skopeyei h kybernhsh na prostateysei to kratos dikaioy kai an mas tima ws xwra h krathsh enos dhmosiografoy, poy synelhfqh enw ergazotan kai profylakisthke.

PETALWTHS: Einai ena eidiko qema kai den gnwrizw tis leptomereies toy. Alla, prwta apo ola, safws, milame gia anejarthsia ths Dikaiosynhs. Kai ayto poy lete ws diapistwsh, gia na eimai eilikrinhs prwth fora to akoyw, oti yparxei diaforetikh metaxeirish aristerwn kai dejiwn. Ayto, gnwrizw, oti synebaine sto parelqon eis baros twn aristerwn. Eseis lete, dhladh, oti yparxei kai twra diakrish; Gia na sas apanthsw...

XIDIROGLOY: O Dhmhtrhs Papagewrgioy einai dhmosiografos, o opoios kalypte gia logariasmo ths efhmeridas `` ELEYQERH WRA'' kai profanws kai ths efhmeridas ``ELEYQEROS KOSMOS'', to syllalhthrio ths Panormoy, ton Ianoyario. Xtyphqhke, synelhfqh kai profylakisthke. Einai fanero oti exoyn lhfqei ypoch, sthn olh ypoqesh, ta politika toy fronhmata. Kanw laqos k. Ekproswpe;

PETALWTHS: Sas anaferw oti den thn gnwrizw akribws thn periptwsh, alla h ellhnikh Dikaiosynh, h opoia einai anejarthth, nomizw, oti apexei para poly apo to na ejetazei ta fronhmata twn politwn, oi opoioi proserxontai enwpion ths.

FOYRLHS: Apo xqes poy hrqe sto proskhnio h ypoqesh ths k. Gkerekoy, yparxei kai ena erwthma poy diatypwnetai. Giati h kybernhsh den frontizei na dwsei sth dhmosiothta h en pash periptwsei na enhmerwsei toys polites gia to poioi einai oi megaloi forofygades, poy yparxoyn stis listes toy ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn. Giati, gia paradeigma, gia toys giatroys toy Kolwnakioy, prosfata, eidame onomata kai lista kai giati den blepoyme gi aytoys poy xrwstane epi xronia para poly megala posa eis baros ths ellhnikhs oikonomias kai olwn twn ypoloipwn.

PETALWTHS: Prwta apo ola, to zhthma twn forofygadwn einai ena poly megalo zhthma. Opws eipa kai prohgoymenws to ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn qa dwsei syntoma peraiterw stoixeia. Yparxoyn ekatontades xiliades ofeiletes pros to dhmosio. Aytes oi ofeiles kymainontai se polla epipeda. Hdh, to ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn exei kanei tetoia organwsh twn foroeispraktikwn mhxanismwn, etsi wste kai mesa apo tis diadikasies ths anagkastikhs ekteleshs, sto plaisio toy forologikoy nomoy kai malista toy neoy forologikoy nomoy, na eisprattontai aytoi oi foroi. Kai malista yparxei kai problech, ayjhshs prokatabolhs poy qa prepei na dwsei kapoios, toy posoy, dhladh, poy qa prepei na prokataballei, prokeimenoy na mporei na prosfygei sth Dikaiosynh gia na elegxqei, ean h bebaiwsh toy foroy toy einai swsth h oxi. Emeis, exoyme ayth thn proteraiothta. Emeis hmastan aytoi poy kataggeilame oti yparxei poly megalos ariqmos poy forodiafeygoyn kai me to neo forologiko plaisio, to opoio egkaqidrysame prospaqoyme na antimetwpisoyme ayth thn katastash. Hdh, edw kai polloys mhnes, apo tote poy analabame, oi diastayrwseis pros oles tis kateyqynseis, synexizontai kai den ginetai ejairesh se kanenan. Kai yparxei, fysika, kai ayth h entolh kai aytos o elegxos pros tis dhmosies oikonomikes yphresies, na eisprattontai oi foroi poy ofeilontai. Kai malista yparxei se ejelijh kai diadikasia peiqarxikwn diwjewn, ean diapistwqei oti oi entetalmenoi ypallhloi toy ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn den kanoyn swsta thn doyleia toys.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Epeidh ayrio qa pragmatopoihqei mia panelladikh genikh apergia. Gia na mhn exoyme tragika fainomena h na mhn exoyme gia paradeigma, drash probokatorikwn stoixeiwn, poy den einai toso ikanopoihmena apo to gegonos oti bgainei o kosmos stoys dromoys, yparxei kapoio eidiko sxedio, kapoia eidikh pronoia apo ton kratiko mhxanismo, wste na perifroyrhqei, kata to dynaton, h poreia kai oles aytes oi diamartyries;

PETALWTHS: Einai qema toy ypoyrgeioy Prostasias toy Polith, poy exei sygkekrimena sxedia kai elpizw -kai ekei einai eyqynh olwn mas- na mhn exoyme antistoixa, akomh kai mikrhs sobarothtas, tetoioy eidoys draseis, opws eixame thn prohgoymenh fora poy qrhnhsame kai qymata. To kratos exei tis eyqynes toy, exei tis ypoxrewseis toy kai aytes tis ypoxrewseis analambanei.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Ti shmainei eyqynh olwn mas; Ftaine oi 150.000 diadhlwtes gia to tragiko gegonos ths Marfin Egnatia Bank;

PETALWTHS: Kaneis den milhse gia eyqynh twn diadhlwtwn, osoi ki an einai aytoi. Emeis -kai ekeines tis hmeres- eipame oti antilambanomaste thn agwnia twn diamartyromenwn, gnwrizoyme poly kala ti symbainei, opws kai h koinwnia gnwrizei kai anagnwrizei thn anagkaiothta twn apofasewn poy labame. Alla, zhthmata poy exoyn na kanoyn me ylikes zhmies kai kyriws - kata meizona logo- me th swmatikh akeraiothta sympolitwn mas kai osoi dikaiologoyn tetoioy eidoys draseis, pragmatika nomizw oti einai ypeyqynoi.

QEODWROPOYLOS: Gnwrizete eseis kapoion poy dikaiologei tetoies draseis;

PETALWTHS: H ellhnikh koinwnia krinei.

ZAFEIRIADOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, dyo erwthmata: To prwto, hqela ena sxolio h kai mia apanthsh, ean exei kapoia problech h kybernhsh gia th leykh apergia poy exei jekinhsei apo dhmosioys ypallhloys se diafora ypoyrgeia. Kai to deytero, ean exete kapoia apanthsh gia ayto poy eixame rwthsei thn prohgoymenh fora, gia epanadiapragmateysh, isws, toy enoikioy toy Synhgoroy toy Polith sto Batopaidi;

PETALWTHS: Oson afora to deytero skelos ths erwthshs sas, qa sas apanthsw ayrio, giati eleipa kai den mporesa na exw thn enhmerwsh poy eprepe. Oson afora th ``leykh'' apergia, den mporoyme na dianohqoyme sth shmerinh epoxh na ginetai ``leykh'' apergia. O oros fysika parapempei se mh nomimothta twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn, eidika se ayth thn epoxh. Qa prepei -opws eipa prin- oloi mas na antilhfqoyme tis eyqynes mas. Oloi mas na antilhfqoyme kai eidika oson afora to dhmosio tomea oti oi paqogeneies qa prepei na stamathsoyn. Kai ekei einai eyqynh olwn mas, osoi katexoyme kapoio dhmosio ajiwma, kratikwn leitoyrgwn, alla kai dhmosiwn ypallhlwn. Einai safes oti qa prepei na allajoyn para polla sto ellhniko dhmosio. Fysika den mporei na prosteqei ena kainoyrgio fainomeno h legomenh ``leykh'' apergia. Kati tetoio, nomizw oti kaneis Ellhnas poliths, den mporei na to apodexqei.

KOYKLOYMPERHS: Yphrje, shmera to prwi, me aformh tis foithtikes ekloges, ena epeisodio sthn ASOE, poy htan prwtagwnistria h PASP. Apomakrynqhkan ta paraban me apotelesma h chfoforia na diejagetai kai na mhn einai mystikh. Ean exete kapoio sxolio ep aytoy h kybernhsh.

PETALWTHS: Einai qema foithtikwn eklogwn.

ROYBINETHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mporei kai poso na ephreasei mia kaqolikh apergia, poy qa einai syntaraktikh as poyme, ta metra, ta staqma, thn kybernhtikh grammh kai to DNT;

PETALWTHS: Exoyme parei tis apofaseis mas, gnwrizontas kai tis synepeies aytwn twn apofasewn. Efarmozoyme ena sygkekrimeno programma me gnwmona to dhmosio symferon. Yphrxe ena dillhma: H na bgoyme apo thn krish h na xreokophsoyme. Emeis, epilejame na bgaloyme th xwra apo thn krish. Kai ayto einai safes.

POLYMEROS: Skeftetai h kybernhsh na proteinei th systash proanakritikh epitroph gia to qema toy Batopedioy; Giati shmera yparxoyn dhmosieymata poy kanoyn logo gia sygkekrimena proswpa, prwhn ypoyrgoys kai yfypoyrgoys ths kybernhshs ths ND.

PETALWTHS: Ennoeitai oti den qa sxoliasw ta dhmosieymata. Einai gnwsto oti oi ejetastikes epitropes ths Boylhs exoyn thn anejarthsia toys, th leitoyrgikothta toys kai pragmateyontai sygkekrimena zhthmata. Otan yparxei porisma twn ejetastikwn epitropwn qa yparjei kai apofash systashs h mh twn proanakritikwn epitropwn, me gnwmona to an prokyptoyn h oxi endeijeis.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Na rwthsw ean skeftetai to ejhs h kybernhsh: Epeidh, einai fanero oti h meiwsh twn xamhlwn syntajewn, h perikoph aytwn twn kommatiwn, den bohqa safws thn antagwnistikothta ths oikonomias, opws antilambaneste, oyte epishs bohqa kai to synoliko dhmosionomiko problhma kai ta elleimmata. Mhpws h kybernhsh skeftetai, mias kai syzhtame gia thn patajh ths forodiafyghs, na epitaxynei - ean exei perasei ligo apo to myalo ths- toys ryqmoys toy kratikoy mhxanismoy, na xtyphsei ligo th forodiafygh, na eisprajei tipota ofeilomena kai na kanei diarqrwtikes kinhseis, poly nwritera, pros aytoys toys anqrwpoys, dioti ean arghsei, symfwna me kapoies diabebaiwseis ypoyrgwn, qa arghsei bebaia, etsi opws to lene, aytoys toys anqrwpoys qa toys caxnete gia na apokatasthsete thn adikia sta nekrotafeia.

PETALWTHS: Gia poies diabebaiwseis ypoyrgwn;

MAKRYGIANNHS: O k. Loberdos eixe pei oti, otan diorqwqoyn ta pragmata, qa kanoyme kinhseis.

PETALWTHS: Ayto ennoeite ``diabebaiwseis''.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Nai, ayto.

PETALWTHS: Diabebaiwseis, nomizw, twn ypoyrgwn, oti argoyn aytoi oi elegxoi.

MAKRYGIANNHS: Einai se baqos xronoy. Alla, se baqos xronoy gia 70ntarhdes kai 80arhdes, qa toys anazhtoyme alloy, oxi edw.

PETALWTHS: Se baqos xronoy mporei na einai kapoies diarqrwtikes allages, mporei na einai kapoia zhthmata, ta opoia einai makroxronias apodoshs ths politikhs. Alla, h patajh ths forodiafyghs exei amesa apotelesmata. Kai ayto to blepoyme akomh kai apo th dhmosieysh twn sygkekrimenwn parabatwn, otan einai ejofqalmes oi parabiaseis toy forologikoy nomoy, opws egine me toys legomenoys ``giatroys toy Kolwnakioy'', opoy den yparxei kanena stoixei laikismoy. Aplws eprepe kai prepei na ginei kati gia thn patajh ejofqalmwn periptwsewn forodiafyghs. Apo ekei kai pera, kai to nomoqetiko plaisio, to opoio systhsame mas epitrepei, pleon, na dhmioyrgoyme taktikoys kai poly pio grhgoroys elegxoys sthn apokrych forologikwn eisodhmatwn, kati poy, oytws h allws, einai kai poly apodotiko. Kai opws eipa kai prohgoymenws, oi diastayrwseis, poy einai ena shmantikotato stoixeio patajhs ths forodiafyghs, synexizontai kai hdh yparxei terastio ergo, ws pros ayto. Ayta ta apotelesmata einai amesa, ws pros ta dhmosionomika stoixeia kai th reystothta toy dhmosioy xrhmatos. Apo ekei kai pera, makari na jeperasoyme thn krish, oso to dynaton syntomotera, gia na mporesoyme na beltiwsoyme thn poiothta kai to epipedo zwhs toy Ellhna polith.

Sas eyxaristw.

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