Greek Government Press Briefing, 07-07-04

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 4 Ioylioy 2007

Xairete.

O Prwqypoyrgos k. Kwstas Karamanlhs qa synanthqei ayrio Pempth 5 Ioylioy, stis 9.00 to prwi, sto Megaro Majimoy, me ton Ypoyrgo Anaptyjhs k. Dhmhtrh Sioyfa.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, eixame xqes mia syzhthsh peri ths aporrofhshs twn kondyliwn gia th dasoprostasia apo to Tameio Synoxhs. Shmera dhmosieyontai kapoia stoixeia poy exei dwsei h armodia Epitropos k. Xoympner, sta opoia diabazw edw, gia dasikh prostasia, koinotikh xrhmatodothsh 24 ekatommyria eyrw, desmeyseis 24 ekatommyria eyrw, plhrwmes mhden, aporrofhsh mhden. Ayta gia th dasikh prostasia, alla kai sto synolo twn kondyliwn apo to Tameio Synoxhs, h synolikh aporrofhsh ftanei molis sto 20%. Isxyoyn ayta ta stoixeia;

ANTWNAROS: Moy diabazete ta idia stoixeia sta opoia apanthsa diejodika xqes.

GKOYTZANHS: Den ta eixame ta stoixeia ypoch mas.

ANTWNAROS: Paroysiazete, omws, ta idia stoixeia. Isxyei synepws h xqesinh apanthsh moy.

XIWTHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, sto idio qema. Apo ta stoixeia poy mas diabasate xqes, mas anaferate ta kondylia poy exei diasfalisei h kybernhsh apo to Tameio Synoxhs. Kai sas eixame rwthsei kai den eixate apanthsei, an qewreite ikanopoihtikoys toys ryqmoys aporrofhshs twn kondyliwn gia programmata eite pyroprostasias eite antiplhmmyrikwn ergwn. Se ayto den apanthsate xqes kai qa hqela shmera, an exete kapoia apanthsh.

ANTWNAROS: Isxyei h xqesinh moy apanthsh, opws thn edwsa. Den exw na prosqesw kati. Einai apanthsh h opoia proerxetai apo stoixeia toy Ypoyrgeioy Oikonomias.

KAKALHS: Yparxoyn kapoia alla stoixeia shmera, an moy epitrepete, ta opoia den exete apanthsei, oti gia thn prostasia daswn, dhladh gia th dianoijh antipyrikwn zwnwn, synthrhsh dasikwn dromwn, kaqarismo daswn, kataskeyh parathrhthriwn, to 2005 den doqhke oyte ena eyrw apo to Programma Dhmosiwn Ependysewn, enw h meiwsh ths synolikhs xrhmatodothshs apo to 2003 ews to 2005 ftanei to 30%.

ANTWNAROS: Apo poy proerxontai ola ayta ta stoixeia;

KAKALHS: Ta exoyme apo to Ypoyrgeio Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs.

ANTWNAROS: Den gnwrizw ayta ta stoixeia. Parakalw, loipon, na apeyqynqeite sto armodio Ypoyrgeio gia tis aparaithtes epejhghseis.

KAKALHS: H aporia moy einai h ejhs: Pws briskete twra jafnika kondylia gia thn anadaswsh, enw mexri twra den dinate oyte ena eyrw...

ANTWNAROS: Ap` o,ti antilambanomai, eiste kata ths anadaswshs...

KAKALHS: Oxi, egw eimai yper ths prolhptikhs prostasias toy dasoys.

ANTWNAROS: Den jerw ean exete antilhfqei ti synebh tis teleytaies hmeres sthn Attikh kai se alles perioxes ths Elladas. Kahkan dash...

KAKALHS: Mallon eseis den exete antilhfqei, ti exei symbei. Kai me thn eykairia, exei sbhsei h fwtia sthn Parnhqa;

ANTWNAROS: Qa moy epitrecete na dwsw apanthseis;

KAKALHS: Nai, sas epitrepw.

ANTWNAROS: O xwros den einai gia na kanete politikes parembaseis edw...

KAKALHS: Oxi, den kanw, alla kai eseis kanete politikoys sxoliasmoys.

ANTWNAROS: Emena h apostolh moy einai na enhmerwnw kai na kanw politikoys sxoliasmoys. Ayth einai h diafora.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, proswpikoys sxoliasmoys.

ANTWNAROS: Den kanw kanena proswpiko sxoliasmo. Kanw politikes topoqethseis.

KAKALHS: Wraia, h erwthsh einai safhs, qa thn apanthsete; Pws jafnika brhkate kondylia gia thn anadaswsh, enw mexri twra den dinate kondylia gia thn prolhptikh prostasia...

ANTWNAROS: Kai...

KAKALHS: Eiste kata ths prolhptikhs prostasias twn daswn;

ANTWNAROS: Sas parakalw...

KAKALHS: Den ta antexoyn ta oikonomika toy Proypologismoy...

ANTWNAROS: Mporw na apanthsw;

KAKALHS: Giati den dwsate tote;

ANTWNAROS: Efoson oi synadelfoi sas edw anexontai aytoy toy eidoys tis parembaseis, den mporw na kanw tipote.

KAKALHS: Ti ennoeite; Den katalaba.

ANTWNAROS: Prepei na me afhsete na apanthsw. Den kanoyme dialogo...

KAKALHS: Oyte egw kanw dialogo...

ANTWNAROS: Exete paranohsei th leitoyrgia toy briefing...

KAKALHS: Erwthseis...

ANTWNAROS: Kanete, loipon, thn erwthsh...

KAKALHS: Otan oi apanthseis, me sygxwreite, einai asteies kai geloies kai prosblhtikes, profanws qa epanelqw.

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw, na anakalesete.

KAKALHS: Ti na anakalesw;

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw na anakalesete.

KAKALHS: Na anakalesete kai eseis toys xarakthrismoys...

ANTWNAROS: Egw den sas xarakthrisa me tropo o opoios einai anoikeios kai aparadektos.

KAKALHS: Ma, ayto eipate prohgoymenws.

SPYRAKH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, hqela na rwthsw, meta th diapistwsh toy k. Soyflia oti oi epixeirhsiakes eyqynes einai diaforetikes apo tis politikes eyqynes kai meta tis xqesines dhlwseis sas edw, enwpion mas, oti qa prepei aytoy toy eidoys tis eyqynes, safws, na tis diaxwrizoyme...

ANTWNAROS: Den eipa egw tetoio pragma sthn aiqoysa.

SPYRAKH: Qelete na epanalabete ayto poy eipate; Den exw kanena...

ANTWNAROS: Eipa oti oi roloi einai diakritoi.

SPYRAKH: Malista. O k. Soyflias pali afhse xqes na ennohqei oti yparxoyn epixeirhsiakes eyqynes. Qelw na rwthsw, an kata thn kybernhsh yparxoyn eyqynes apo thn pleyra twn epixeirhsiakwn paragontwn sthn ypoqesh ths katasbeshs ths pyrkagias ths Parnhqas.

ANTWNAROS: Parapempw stis dhlwseis toy k. Soyflia.

POYLIDOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, xqes o Ypoyrgos Politismoy dexqhke epiqesh apo koykoyloforoys kai o k. Boylgarakhs einai enas apo toys kala froyroymenoys Ypoyrgoys ths kybernhshs, se mia perioxh h opoia einai gemath apo dimoiries astynomikwn kai eidikwn monadwn asfaleias. Ejakoloyqeite na qewreite oti h Astynomia kanei kala th doyleia ths;

ANTWNAROS: Ejakoloyqw na qewrw oti yparxoyn orismenoi, poly ligoi Ellhnes polites, oi opoioi qewroyn, pisteyoyn, lanqasmena kata thn apoch moy, oti me th xrhsh bias mporoyn na ekfrasoyn kapoies apoceis. Aytos o tropos symperiforas einai katadikasmenos apo th syntriptikh pleiochfia twn Ellhnwn politwn kai eimai bebaios oti oloi apomonwnoyme kai prepei na apomonwsoyme apotelesmatika ayta ta atoma.

KAKALHS: Epanalambanw thn erwthsh: H kybernhsh gnwrizei an exei sbhsei h fwtia sthn Parnhqa;

ANTWNAROS: Ayto einai epixeirhsiako qema...

KAKALHS: Epixeirhsiako qema;

ANTWNAROS: Kyrie Kakalh, qa moy epitrecete na apanthsw; Me diakoptete synexws. Sas apanthsa, loipon, oti to qema ths pyrkagias kai an exoyn sbhsei oi teleytaies esties pyrkagias sthn Parnhqa einai epixeirhsiako qema. Ginetai prospaqeia wste na mhn yparxei kamia estia kai na apokleistoyn oles oi piqanothtes --kai oi pio apomakrysmenes-- anazwpyrwshs twn estiwn. Ayth einai h prospaqeia poy kataballetai apo to Pyrosbestiko Swma kai toys eqelontes oi opoioi metexoyn. Apo oloys osoi metexoyn.

KAKALHS: Kai den prokalei entypwsh to gegonos oti h kybernhsh den jerei an exei sbhsei h fwtia meta apo epta hmeres;

ANTWNAROS: Sas apanthsa. Den exw na prosqesw kati.

POYLIDOY: Sygnwmh, moy apanthsate kai mena gia toys koykoyloforoys. Egw sas rwthsa, an, kata th gnwmh sas, htan ikanopoihtikh h prostasia toy Ypoyrgoy Politismoy.

ANTWNAROS: Kai sas apanthsa oti ean yparxoyn orismenoi oi opoioi me opoiondhpote tropo qeloyn na qesoyn se kindyno th zwh kapoioy, ftanontas se akraies energeies, den einai panta eykolo na toys empodisei kaneis. Aytes oi energeies prepei na apomonwqoyn. Prepei na tis katadikasoyme oloi mas.

POYLIDOY: Den htan kamikazi...

ANTWNAROS: Ayth einai dikh sas ektimhsh. Den jerw pws qa eprepe na xarakthrisei kaneis anqrwpoys oi opoioi xrhsimopoioyn anejelegkth bia.

KOTTARIDHS: H Ellhnikh Astynomia perimenei, dhladh, apo emas na apomonwsoyme ayta ta atoma;

ANTWNAROS: H Ellhnikh Astynomia perimenei kai jerei oti oi Ellhnes polites apomonwnoyn tetoies praktikes kai tetoies symperifores. Mhn moy apodidete pragmata ta opoia egw den eipa.

SPYRAKH: Na sas rwthsw kati eyqews: Htan apotelesmatikh h parembash twn astynomikwn poy froyroyn ton k. Boylgarakh se syndyasmo me toys astynomikoys poy ekeinh thn wra ekteloysan to kaqhkon toys dipla sto Ypoyrgeio Politismoy;

ANTWNAROS: Ep` aytoy apanthse xqes erwthqeis o k. Boylgarakhs.

MPOTSARAKOS: Epeidh eipate oti o tropos aytos katadikazetai apo oloys toys Ellhnes...

ANTWNAROS: Aytos o tropos symperiforas.

MPOTSARAKOS: Malista, kai qa prepei oloi na toys apomonwsoyme apotelesmatika.

ANTWNAROS: Nai.

MPOTSARAKOS: Otan lete ``oloi'' ennoeite kai h Astynomia fantazomai.

ANTWNAROS: Fysika. Oloi mas. Kai den nomizw oti yparxei kamia amfibolia oti h Astynomia to kanei.

KAKALHS: Qewreite tyxaio to gegonos oti th stigmh poy egine epiqesh twn koykoyloforwn sto Ypoyrgeio Politismoy h dimoiria twn MAT den briskotan, ws synhqws, sth qesh ths; Kai epishs sto diasthma ayto den ginontai astynomikes peripolies synhqws ta prwina; Poy ta gnwrizan ayta oi koykoyloforoi;

ANTWNAROS: Ta opoia stoixeia toy astynomikoy deltioy moy metaferete, den eimai se qesh na ta sxoliasw.

KAKALHS: Prokalei aporia poy ta gnwrizan ayta oi koykoyloforoi.

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw o k. Gkatsios.

GKATSIOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qelw na epanelqw ligo sto qema twn pyrkagiwn. Anakoinwqhkan xqes mia seira apo metra sthn kybernhtikh epitroph. H ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh omws, synexizei na milaei gia meiwmenh periballontikh eyaisqhsia. Exete kapoio sxolio gi` ayto;

ANTWNAROS: Ypoqetw oti anafereste se kapoia dhlwsh thn opoia ekane xqes o ypeyqynos Dhmosiwn Ergwn kai Periballontos toy Koinoboyleytikoy Symboylioy toy PASOK k. Andreas Loberdos, o opoios fainetai, akoloyqwntas ta xnaria kai ekeinos toy arxhgoy toy, toy k. Giwrgoy Papandreoy, prospoieitai oti oyte koryfaio stelexos htan twn kybernhsewn toy PASOK, oyte kai Ypoyrgos bebaia. Fainetai pws exei jexasei h qelei na jexasei o k. Loberdos pws htan Ypoyrgos toy PASOK. Fainetai pws exei jexasei oti oi kybernhseis stis opoies yphrethse ejairoysan oloklhres ektaseis kamenhs ghs apo tis ektaseis poy eprepe na anadaswqoyn. Kai ola ayta, jerete, exoyn ginei me Proedrika Diatagmata. Ektos an, opws sas eipa sthn arxh, o k. Loberdos xrhsimopoiwntas diafores ekfraseis xwris sygkekrimeno periexomeno, prospaqei akribws na apokocei ton omfalio lwro toy shmerinoy PASOK apo to PASOK prin apo to 2004. Den qa to kataferei. Giati, opws sas eipa, htan kai ekeinos kai o arxhgos toy kai polloi alloi, koryfaia stelexh kai ekeinoy toy PASOK kai twn kybernhsewn toy. Den qymamai tote o k. Loberdos me tis ocimes periballontikes anhsyxies na eixe ekfrasei kamia enstash, kamia antirrhsh gia to gegonos ths merikhs anadaswshs poy apofasize to PASOK. Fainetai oti aytokritikh kanei o k. Loberdos.

XIWTHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qelw na epanelqw stis dhlwseis toy k. Soyflia. O k. Soyflias eipe xqes oti den qewrei oti yparxoyn politikes eyqynes gia ton k. Byrwna Polydwra, ton Ypoyrgo Dhmosias Tajhs, alla eipe safws oti qewrei oti yparxoyn epixeirhsiakes eyqynes. Sas akoysa prohgoymenws poy eipate sth synadelfo oti parapempete stis dhlwseis toy k. Soyflia. Ma, akribws aytes tis dhlwseis qeloyme na aposafhnisoyme. H kybernhsh synolika epidokimazei, yioqetei thn apoch toy k. Soyflia oti yparxoyn epixeirhsiakes eyqynes;

ANTWNAROS: O k. Soyflias ekane sygkekrimenes dhlwseis stis opoies kai sas parapempw. Den exw na pw tipota pera apo osa eipe o Ypoyrgos.

GKOYTZANHS: O k. Soyflias den mporoyse na dexqei erwthseis. Ekane mia dhlwsh sta orqia ejw apo to Majimoy. Mas parapempete mono se mia dhlwsh san na einai qesfato, xwris na dexeste...

ANTWNAROS: O k. Soyflias apanthse se erwthseis xqes.

GKOYTZANHS: Nai, den hmastan ekei.

ANTWNAROS: Malista.

XIWTHS: Moy epitrepete, kyrie Ekproswpe;

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw.

XIWTHS: Epeidh prohgoymenws teqhke kai ena zhthma gia to pws ginetai o dialogos edw mesa, xwris egw proswpika na yioqetw kanenan apo toys xarakthrismoys poy akoysa, prepei endexomenws h kybernhsh na problhmatistei pws ginetai h enhmerwsh edw mesa. Den mporei na sas kaloyme na mas sxoliasete dhlwseis enos koryfaioy kybernhtikoy stelexoys kai ws apanthsh na pairnoyme parapomph stis...

ANTWNAROS: Malista. Ayto ti shmainei;

XIWTHS: Ayto shmainei, kyrie Ekproswpe, oti den qelete na tis sxoliasete.

ANTWNAROS: Oxi. Ayto shmainei oti h kybernhsh qewrei tis dhlwseis toy Ypoyrgoy ws dhlwseis poy ekfrazoyn thn kybernhsh.

XIWTHS: Synepws eikazw apo thn apanthsh sas...

ANTWNAROS: Na eikazete oti isxyoyn oi dhlwseis toy k. Soyflia.

XIWTHS: Kai synepws egw gia na mhn bgalw lanqasmeno symperasma, giati den to qelw, eikazw oti h kybernhsh qewrei oti yparxoyn epixeirhsiakes eyqynes sthn prospaqeia katasbeshs ths pyrkagias ths Parnhqas.

ANTWNAROS: Qelete na sas diabasw tis dhlwseis toy k. Soyflia;

XIWTHS: Oxi, tis gnwrizw.

ANTWNAROS: Erwtatai o k. Soyflias gia ton k. Polydwra kai apanta: ``Qa ton sthrijw egw, legontas oti polles fores syzhtame gia politikes eyqynes kai sthn oysia den exoyme jekaqarisei ti einai h politikh eyqynh. Aplws etsi, genika kai aorista, leme panta ``oi politikes eyqynes'' ktl.. Yparxoyn kai yphresiakes eyqynes. Den yparxoyn mono oi politikes eyqynes. Kai polles fores sygxeoyme tis politikes eyqynes me tis yphresiakes''.

O k. Soyflias den leei oti sto sygkekrimeno qema twn pyrkagiwn yphrxan epixeirhsiakes eyqynes.

XIWTHS: Profanws sth qewria ths poinikhs dikonomias yparxoyn kai poinikes eyqynes.

ANTWNAROS: Malista.

XIWTHS: Gia na mhn epikaleitai o k. Soyflias tis poinikes eyqynes, alla na epikaleitai mono tis epixeirhsiakes, egw eikazw oti qewrei oti yparxoyn...

ANTWNAROS: Oi eikasies mporei na einai dikes sas. Egw sas parapempw aytolejei stis dhlwseis toy k. Soyflia.

XIWTHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, molis prin apo ligo mas eipate oti apo tis dhlwseis toy k. Soyflia den prokyptei safws an yparxoyne epixeirhsiakes eyqynes h oxi. Sas rwtw: Yparxoyn h den yparxoyn;

ANTWNAROS: Sas apanthsa molis. Sas parapempw stis dhlwseis toy k. Soyflia. Tipota peran aytoy.

MPOTSARAKOS: Pros ti h anagkh, kyrie Ekproswpe, na diaxwristoyn oi politikes apo tis epixeirhsiakes eyqynes, apo th stigmh poy den mas lete an yparxoyn epixeirhsiakes h oxi; Gia poio logo;

ANTWNAROS: Den katalabainw to erwthma sas, eilikrina. Eseis prospaqeite na apodwsete eyqynes. Egw den apodidw eyqynes.

XIWTHS: Qeloyme na doyme thn apoch sas.

ANTWNAROS: H apoch moy einai ayth poy ekfrasthke apo ton k. Soyflia.

XIWTHS: Kata th dikh moy apoch, loipon, h apoch toy k. Soyflia...

ANTWNAROS: Exete to forum, to bhma na ekfrasete tis apoceis sas.

XIWTHS: Ki eseis to idio.

SPYRAKH: Qelw na sas rwthsw, ean h kybernhsh qewrei oti sth diadikasia ths katasbeshs ths pyrkagias ths Parnhqas eginan ola kalws.

ANTWNAROS: Yparxoyn dhlwseis toy k. Polydwra, toy k. Paylopoyloy kai toy k. Soyflia stis opoies synolika sas parapempw.

SPYRAKH: Me sygxwreite k. Ekproswpe, stis dhlwseis stis opoies mas parapempete einai ena terastio fasma. Arxizoyn apo to ``thn pathsame'' poy anefere o Ypoyrgos Dhmosias Tajhs otan anaferetai sto qema twn pylwnwn ths DEH kai oloklhrwnontai me ton k. Soyflia, xqes, poy afhnei ypainigmo gia epixeirhsiakes eyqynes. Qelw na rwthsw, h kybernhsh qewrei h oxi oti eginan laqh sth diadikasia katasbeshs ths pyrkagias;

ANTWNAROS: O kaqe Ypoyrgos ekfrasthke ston tomea toy sto metro poy ton afora.

KOTTARIDHS: Kaqe Ypoyrgos ekfrazetai ston tomea toy, alla eixame, opws sthn periptwsh toy k. Polydwra, o opoios eipe alla thn prwth stigmh kai alla th deyterh. Emeis poia dhlwsh na krathsoyme;

ANTWNAROS: Exw rwthqei ep` aytoy kai exw apanthsei ep` aytoy xqes. Den prokeitai na epanelqw.

PALAIOLOGOS: Epeidh egw xqes eixa kanei thn erwthsh sxetika me tis diforoymenes dhlwseis toy k. Polydwra, tis arxikes kai tis metepeita, qa rwthsw: Aporriptei h kybernhsh tis dhlwseis toy k. Polydwra poy paradexqhke oti ``thn pathsame''; Tis yioqetei h tis aporriptei;

ANTWNAROS: Ti akribws me rwtate twra;

PALAIOLOGOS: Mas parapempete stis dhlwseis toy k. Polydwra. O k. Polydwras ekane dyo diaforetikes dhlwseis...

ANTWNAROS: O k. Polydwras ekane synolikes dhlwseis pros to telos twn pyrkagiwn stis opoies kai sas parapempw. Aytes oi dhlwseis einai poy endiaferoyn thn kybernhsh.

PALAIOLOGOS: Ensternizeste thn apoch toy k. Polydwra oti thn pathsate sto qema ths katasbeshs ths pyrkagias;

ANTWNAROS: Oxi.

MELIGKWNHS: Eidikoi dasologoi dhlwnoyn shmera se efhmerida oti ean isxye to anaqewrhmeno arqro 24 h mish Parnhqa qa eixe xtistei. Dedomenoy oti mallon epimenete sthn anaqewrhsh toy arqroy 24, exete kapoio sxolio;

ANTWNAROS: Oxi.

KAKALHS: Otan lete ``egw den apodidw eyqynes'', ennoeite oti den yparxoyn...

ANTWNAROS: Den einai doyleia toy Kybernhtikoy Ekproswpoy na katalogizei eyqynes, oytws h allws.

KAKALHS: Genikotera, omws, pisteyete oti den yparxoyn eyqynes gi` ayto to egklhma poy egine me thn katastrofh toy eqnikoy drymoy ths Parnhqas;

ANTWNAROS: Shmasia exei oti katastrafhke ena megalo kommati toy eqnikoy drymoy ths Parnhqas. Kai shmasia exei oti prepei na katablhqoyn, opws kai qa katablhqoyn apo th shmerinh kybernhsh kai oloys toys emplekomenoys foreis, oi prospaqeies oi opoies apaitoyntai gia na apokatastaqei to dasos. Shmasia exei, epishs, oti h shmerinh kybernhsh exei apodeijei sthn prajh pws o,ti exei pei se sxesh me prohgoymenes pyrkagies kai thn katastrofh daswn exei pragmatopoihqei. Ayto einai poy metra. Ean yparxoyn, opoiesdhpote alles ptyxes poy einai pros diereynhsh, na eiste sigoyroi oti qa diereynhqoyn.

SPYRAKH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, ean moy epitrepete, na pame se ena allo qema, kaqws xqes o k. Papakwnstantinoy, o Genikos Dieyqynths toy PASOK prosefyge sth Dikaiosynh se sxesh me ta stoixeia poy paroysiase o Prwqypoyrgos sth Boylh gia tis agores omologwn poy eginan epi dioikhsews toy sto Tameio Eqnikhs Odopoiias. Exete na kanete kapoio sxolio me thn antidrash sthn oysia toy PASOK me ayto to qema;

ANTWNAROS: Egw den blepw kamia antidrash toy PASOK. Ekeino to opoio blepw einai oti toso to PASOK, oso kai o arxhgos toy, kaqws kai bebaiws o amesws emplekomenos k. Papakwnstantinoy, shmerinos Genikos Dieyqynths toy PASOK, apofeygoyn na topoqethqoyn gia thn oysia toy qematos. Den lene koybenta gia tis ypoptes synallages poy feretai na exei kanei o k. Papakwnstantinoy. Prospaqoyn na aposiwphsoyn to qema. Prospaqoyn, opws sas eipa kai xqes, na dhmioyrghsoyn ena peplo me anoysia epixeirhmata gia na apoprosanatolisoyn apo th mia kai monadikh erwthsh poy prepei na apanthsoyn. Dhladh, ean o k. Papandreoy ejakoloyqei, opws fainetai oti ejakoloyqei, na sthrizei kai na diathrei ton k. Papakwnstantinoy ws Geniko Dieyqynth toy kommatos toy PASOK, toy kommatos ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs, meta apo ta stoixeia poy apokalyfthkan se baros toy. Ayto einai to erwthma kai se ayto akribws prepei na apanthsoyn kai to PASOK kai o arxhgos toy, o k. Papandreoy.

SPYRAKH: Ean epitrepete, epeidh kat` arxhn na sas pw den qelw na kanw to synhgoro toy k. Papakwnstantinoy, allh einai h doyleia moy, alla o k. Papakwnstantinoy xqes ejedwse mia anakoinwsh sthn opoia anaferetai oti oi synallages poy ekane elegxqhkan apo orkwtoys logistes kai phgan sth Genikh Syneleysh. Den qewreite, katalabainw apo ayto poy eipate, eparkeis tis ejhghseis...

ANTWNAROS: Ejakoloyqw na lew oti h topoqethsh ayth den apanta sthn oysia toy qematos. H oysia toy qematos, prwton, oson afora tis sygkekrimenes epimaxes synallages, menei anapanthth. Kai h oysia toy qematos, oson afora th sthrijh poy parexei o k. Papandreoy ston k. Papakwnstantinoy, me ton opoio fainetai na exoyn symporeyqei poly mazi, perimenei epishs apanthsh. Kai h apanthsh den erxetai.

SPYRAKH: Qelw na sas rwthsw, mono ep` aytoy na kanw mia erwthsh. To allo poy qelw na sas rwthsw einai, dedomenoy oti o k. Delhmhtsos to eipe safws oti ta stoixeia ayta einai se gnwsh ths kybernhshs apo thn periodo poy ekane apografh ths kinhths perioysias toy Tameioy. Giati, enw ta stoixeia htan se gnwsh ths kybernhshs to telos toy 2004, hrqan twra sth dhmosiothta kai giati h kybernhsh, afoy eixe ypoch ths ayta ta stoixeia ta opoia kata thn apoch ths einai stoixeia poy dhlwnoyn toylaxiston paratypia, den ta kateqese eyqys ejarxhs sth Dikaiosynh;

ANTWNAROS: Parapempw se olh th xqesinh moy apanthsh gi` ayto to qema poy einai perissotero apo safhs.

MELIGKWNHS: Eipate prin k. Ekproswpe oti o k. Papakwnstantinoy kai o k. Papandreoy apofeygoyn na topoqethqoyn gia thn oysia toy qematos. Wstoso, epi treis mhnes, otan sas kaname erwthseis gia thn oysia toy qematos twn omologwn, epikaloysastan anakoinwseis toy k. Doyka analogoy yfoys kai periexomenoy me aytes toy k. Papakwnstantinoy kai legate oti h ypoqesh einai sth Dikaiosynh. Afoy, loipon, o k. Papakwnstantinoy xqes phge ston eisaggelea kai zhthse taxeia diereynhsh ths ypoqeshs. Afoy, loipon, h ypoqesh einai sth Dikaiosynh kai diereynatai, gia poio logo den isxyei kai gia ton k. Papakwnstantinoy oti perimenete ta porismata ths Dikaiosynhs;

ANTWNAROS: Shmeiwteon, den phge me ton tropo poy perigracate. Egw den qelw na prokatalabw, bebaiws, se kamia periptwsh, ta porismata ths Dikaiosynhs.

MELIGKWNHS: Ma, to kanete kai to ekane kai o Prwqypoyrgos.

ANTWNAROS: Kanete laqos. O Prwqypoyrgos ti ekane; Dhmosiopoihse me ton pio jekaqaro tropo ta stoixeia ta opoia eixe, kataqetontas ta sth Boylh. Kai ta ekane dhmosia ayta ta stoixeia.

MELIGKWNHS: Apo th stigmh poy exei epilhfqei h prokeitai na epilhfqei meta apo aithma toy idioy toy k. Papakwnstantinoy h Dikaiosynh, gia poio logo gia esas den isxyei, opws isxyei sto qema twn omologwn, oti perimenete ta porismata ths Dikaiosynhs;

ANTWNAROS: Emeis exoyme apolyth empistosynh sth Dikaiosynh, alla qa moy epitrecete na paroysiasw mia diafora, h opoia yparxei. Otan yphrjan kapoies skies gia kapoio stelexos h kapoia stelexh, poy proerxontan apo to xwro ths Neas Dhmokratias sxetika me ena qema poy eixe apokalycei h idia h kybernhsh, ta stelexh ayta apomakrynqhkan. Den blepw na kanei to idio o k. Papandreoy me ton Geniko Dieyqynth toy kommatos toy. Ton diathrei sth qesh toy. Ayto ta leei ola.

MELIGKWNHS: Ep` aytoy, na rwthsw kati; Otan o Prwqypoyrgos mila sth Boylh gia aetonyxhdes, den prodikazei ta osa exei na pei h Dikaiosynh;

ANTWNAROS: Den prodikazei tipota o Prwqypoyrgos. Apolytws tipota. Poios sebetai th Dikaiosynh einai hlioy faeinoteron. Einai h shmerinh kybernhsh. Antiqetws, ekeinh poy prospaqei me kaqe tropo  kai twra ws antipoliteysh kai otan htan sthn kybernhsh--na xeiragwghsei kai na deijei to dromo poy prepei na akoloyqhsei h Dikaiosynh, ayth einai h ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh. To komma ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs. To PASOK.

GKOYTZANHS: Epeidh eipate oti den exei apomakrynqei akomh o k. Papakwnstantinoy, poy emena den me endiaferei, gia thn ypoqesh twn omologwn poy mas talanizei treis mhnes apomakrynqhke kanenas me apofash toy Prwqypoyrgoy;

ANTWNAROS: Exw apanthsei ep` aytoy.

MPOTSARAKOS: Anarwtiemai k. Ekproswpe, epeidh einai h prwth ypoqesh ypopths synallaghs poy kataggellei o Prwqypoyrgos kai h kybernhsh me stoixeia sth Boylh...

ANTWNAROS: Kanete laqos.

MPOTSARAKOS: Milw gia thn periodo diaxeirishs toy PASOK, oxi gia ...

ANTWNAROS: Kanete laqos. Na freskarw ligo thn mnhmh sas. O Prwqypoyrgos, se pro hmerhsias diatajews syzhthsh sth Boylh-- nomizw gia thn oikonomia alla den eimai sigoyros-- pro arketwn ebdomadwn, eixe kataqesei stoixeia ta opoia eixan perielqei se gnwsh toy sxetika me tis drasthriothtes kai tis synallages ths xrhmatisthriakhs etairias ``Akropolis'' kata to diasthma, an qymamai kala, 1999 ews 2000, ebdomhnta synolika synallages, me asfalistika Tameia. Ayth, jerete, einai periodos diakybernhshs ths xwras apo to PASOK. Kai ta stoixeia ayta yparxoyn. Kai ta stoixeia ayta apodeiknyoyn oti se ekeinh thn periodo ginontan --sas to eixa pei, eixa xrhsimopoihsei thn idia ekfrash qymamai-- trampes sthn agora omologwn. Dhladh, poyliotan th mia mera, agorazotan thn allh, se times oi opoies htan kaqe allo para eynoikes gia ta Tameia. Den einai, loipon, h prwth fora. Kai ayto apodeiknyei kai kati akomh, sas to eipa kai xqes kai to epanalambanw kai shmera: Oti oi aitiaseis poy eixan diatypwqei, oti h xrhmatisthriakh ``Akropolis'' kai diaforoi alloi, htan dhqen ``galazioi'', exoyn katarrifqei pro polloy. Eixan poly kales sxeseis me diafora ``prasina'' stelexh toy PASOK. Prokalei epishs ekplhjh to gegonos oti jafnika meta apo 120 hmeres --qymamai oti o k. Eyqymioy metroyse mexri proxqes tis meres kai jafnika stamathse na tis metraei-- to PASOK enoxleitai kai prospaqei na balei to qema twn omologwn sto periqwrio. Twra poy jetyligetai olo to koybari kai emfanizontai poioi einai oi pragmatika emplekomenoi sto qema twn omologwn apo to 1999 kai meta, entromos o arxhgos toy PASOK prospaqei na jexasei to qema. H ejhghsh bebaia einai aplh: Enoxleitai, giati twra bgainei sto proskhnio h emplokh dikwn toy stelexwn se ayto to qema.

GKOYTZANHS: Gia ton k. Papakwnstantinoy den...

ANTWNAROS: Allo einai to qema toy k. Papakwnstantinoy kai allo einai to qema twn omologwn kai twn asfalistikwn Tameiwn. Alla o k. Papakwnstantinoy apo th qesh poy htan diapragmateyotan, agoraze kai poyloyse omologa. To Tameio Odopoiias, omws, sto opoio htan tote, den einai asfalistiko Tameio.

GKOYTZANHS: Epeidh eipate ``dikwn toy stelexwn'', xrhsimopoihsate plhqyntiko.

ANTWNAROS: Dikwn toy stelexwn me thn ennoia oti ekeinoi oi opoioi eixan topoqethqei tote ekei, sta asfalistika Tameia, eixan topoqethqei apo kybernhseis toy PASOK. Cajete na breite poioi einai.

MPOTSARAKOS: Den payei omws k. Ekproswpe, oi kataggelies poy exoyn ginei apo thn kybernhsh, na aforoyn ypoqesh diaxeirishs omologwn. Estw kai an den prokeitai gia asfalistiko Tameio, ayth th fora kai prokeitai gia to Tameio Eqnikhs Odopoiias. Anarwtiemai, alla stoixeia gia ypoptes synallages epi ths diaxeirishs toy PASOK den exei h Nea Dhmokratia; Kai an exei, an yphrjan, giati den ta dhmosiopoiei;

ANTWNAROS: Sas eipa: Ebdomhnta synallages kai parapanw.

MPOTSARAKOS: Ennow, ektos apo th diaxeirish omologwn. Alloy den yparxei problhma;

ANTWNAROS: Opoia stoixeia exei h kybernhsh ta kataqetei sth Boylh. Ta dhmosiopoiei, ta kanei me ton pio panhgyriko tropo dhmosia eggrafa, ta opoia einai --opws antilambaneste-- prosbasima se osoys nomimopoioyntai.

XIWTHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, eipate prohgoymenws oti ta leei ola to gegonos oti o Proedros toy PASOK diathrei sth qesh toy ton k. Papakwnstantinoy. An katalabainw kala, einai mia kainoyrgia filosofia ayth ths kybernhshs, oti opoios kathgoreitai qa prepei na apopempetai; Kai an einai ayth h filosofias sas, exei symbei antistoixws me ypoqeseis poy kathgorei to PASOK stelexh sas;

ANTWNAROS: Apanthsa. H shmerinh kybernhsh, o shmerinos Prwqypoyrgos, exoyn apodeijei empraktws --kai sas parakalw na anatrejete-- thn eyaisqhsia toys. Antiqeta, o k. Papandreoy epimenei na diathrei sth qesh toy ton k. Papakwnstantinoy, meta tis sobarotates kataggelies poy yfistantai eis baros toy.

MELIGKWNHS: Eipate xqes oti yparxoyn kai alla stelexh toy PASOK poy emplekontai se perierges ypoqeseis kai oti o Prwqypoyrgos milhse endeiktika. Kata synepeia, jerete kati;

ANTWNAROS: Den eipa ayto. Eipa ``alla Tameia''. Anefera dyo Tameia sta opoia anaferqhke o Prwqypoyrgos kai stoixeia gia ta opoia kateqese --dyo htan an den kanw laqos-- sth Boylh. Endexomenws, yparxoyn ki alla Tameia. Stoixeia gia ta alla Tameia, opws sas eipa, exoyn katateqei edw kai ebdomades sth Boylh. Kai fantazomai oti einai antikeimeno ereynas. Lew fantazomai dioti den exw fysika gnwsh ths dikastikhs ereynas, h opoia ftanei apo to 1999 mexri shmera.

KAKALHS: Den katalaba. Amfisbhthsate oti phge sth Dikaiosynh o k. Papakwnstantinoy; Eipate den phge sth Dikaiosynh; Giati anaferei `` prosfeygw shmera sth Dikaiosynh'' sth xqesinh toy dhlwsh.

ANTWNAROS: Na ginw akribesteros: Perimenw na dw tis sygkekrimenes energeies tis opoies qa kanei. Ayto ennooysa.

KAKALHS: Den phge xqes; Exete plhrofories;

ANTWNAROS: Perimenw na dw tis sygkekrimenes energeies tis opoies qa kanei, sas lew. Oi energeies ths Dikaiosynhs einai sygkekrimenes. Eseis moy diabasate kati se enestwta xrono.

Sas eyxaristw.

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