Greek Government Press Briefing, 07-06-18

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

GENIKH GRAMMATEIA ENHMERWSHS

Dieyqynsh Plhroforhshs

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Deytera, 18 Ioynioy 2007

Ariqmos Deltioy: 79389364

Ekdosh 1

brf1806

ANAPLHRWTHS KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 18 Ioynioy 2007

Xairete kai kalh ebdomada.

" Ayrio Trith 19 Ioynioy, stis 11:00, qa synedriasei h Kybernhtikh Epitroph, ypo thn proedria toy Prwqypoyrgoy k. Kwsta Karamanlh. Epishs, stis 13:30, o Prwqypoyrgos k. Kwstas Karamanlhs qa synanthqei sto Megaro Majimoy me ton Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn ths Serbias k. Boyk Geremits.

" O Proedros toy PASOK k. Giwrgos Papandreoy anaferqhke shmera, kata thn episkech poy ekane to prwi ston OAED, sth Qessalonikh, se diafora qemata anergias kai apasxolhshs. Einai megalh ypokrisia na diamartyretai enas oloklhros mhxanismos poy odhghse th xwra se oikonomika kai koinwnika adiejoda. Ena komma, opws to PASOK, poy san ayqentiko deikth ths oikonomikhs kai koinwnikhs apotyxias ths politikhs toy exei na paroysiasei thn anergia, poy paredwse to 2004 se epipeda megalytera toy 11%.

H paraplhroforhsh mazi me th myqoplasia einai ta mesa poy epistrateyei kaneis, otan den exei sobara kai peistika epixeirhmata gia na sthrijei qeseis kai apoceis. Thn taktikh ayth exei epilejei syneidhta, ap` o,ti fainetai kai kata systhma to PASOK to teleytaio diasthma, elleicei qesewn kai protasewn, epidiwkontas, mataia omws, na diastreblwsei, opws ekane kai sto parelqon thn pragmatikothta. H pragmatikothta omws einai ameilikth, akomh kai gia osoys akoloyqoyn thn epwdo ths paraplhroforhshs kai thn taktikh toy stroyqokamhlismoy.

O k. Papandreoy den ekane shmera tipote allo apo to na anamashsei orismena epixeirhmata, ta opoia eixe xrhsimopoihsei thn perasmenh ebdomada  qarrw-- h k. Damanakh. Symfwna omws me ta prosfata kai pleon epishma, egkekrimena apo thn EUROSTAT --to ypogrammizw-- stoixeia ths Eqnikhs Statistikhs Yphresias, o ariqmos twn apasxoloymenwn apo 4.269.897 ton Febroyario toy 2004 ayjhqhke stoys 4.438.621 Ellhnes kai Ellhnides polites ton antistoixo mhna toy 2007. Ayto shmainei oti dhmioyrghqhkan peripoy 170.000 nees qeseis ergasias ta tria teleytaia xronia. Ayth einai h pragmatikothta, oso kai an merikoi asxoloyntai me alla, enoxloyntai kai qeloyn na ta amfisbhthsoyn.

H anergia sth xwra mas meiwqhke gia prwth fora tis teleytaies dekaeties se monochfia pososta apo 11,3% poy htan ton Martio toy 2004. Gia prwth fora de to eqniko pososto apasxolhshs jeperase to 60% poy pote den eixe katagrafei kata to parelqon kai etsi shmera to pososto apasxolhshs brisketai, me ta teleytaia mh amfisbhtoymena diaqesima stoixeia, sto 61,5%. Mono me ton anaptyjiako nomo, poy h kybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias efere sth Boylh, alla to PASOK katachfise  sas to ypenqymizw-- to nomo 3299/2004, se peripoy 3.000 egkekrimena ependytika sxedia, oi nees ameses qeseis apasxolhshs einai peripoy 13.000 kai akomh perissoteres oi emmeses. Allh mia pragmatikothta, poy to PASOK den qelei na paradexqei.

Se o,ti de afora ta programmata toy OAED gia thn apokthsh ergasiakhs empeirias se yphresies toy Dhmosioy, opoy kai pali to PASOK paraplhroforei, o synolikos ariqmos twn symmetexontwn newn den yperbainei ta 12.000 atoma. Aytoi malista oi neoi, poy eiserxontai gia prwth fora sthn agora ergasias, ekpaideyontai se yphresies kai foreis me idiaitera shmantiko koinwniko xarakthra, opws einai ta asfalistika Tameia, ta nosokomeia kai alles yphresies. Oi symmetexontes sta energhtika programmata apasxolhshs oydepote symperilambanontan sthn katagegrammenh anergia kai ayto to apokryboyn epimelws kai o arxhgos toy PASOK kai h k. Damanakh sta deltia typoy poy dianemoyn. Synepws, h sygkrish ths anergias anamesa stis dyo periodoys einai amesh kai dystyxws gia to PASOK, poly apogohteytikh gia ekeinoys. H symmetoxh twn ergazomenwn kai anergwn se diadikasies katartishs einai ontws xamhlh se sxesh me ton koinotiko meso oro. Den prepei, omws, na jexname apo poso xamhlh bash jekinhsame to 2004, alla poly perissotero to saqro kai anejelegkto mhxanismo katartishs kai ``ceydokatartishs'' poy apomyzoyse ta koinotika kondylia ta xronia diakybernhshs toy PASOK. Epishs, stis anafores poy ekane kai thn perasmenh ebdomada h k. Damanakh h den jerei h gnwrizei, opote skopima diastreblwnei thn pragmatikothta. Stoys isxyrismoys aytoys, loipon, ths k. Damanakh kai toy PASOK peri ``zoferhs ergasiakhs pragmatikothtas'', sas paraqetw kai qa sas ta dwsw eyxaristws, ta epishma stoixeia ths EUROSTAT sxetika me ta pososta ths merikhs apasxolhshs sthn Ellada se sxesh me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Oi Ellhnes polites kai jeroyn kai sygkrinoyn kai katalhgoyn se asfaleis kriseis.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

GKOYTZANHS: O k. Polydwras ejakoloyqei na apolambanei ths empistosynhs toy Prwqypoyrgoy;

ANTWNAROS: Nai.

SARANTAKOS: Poio einai to sxolio sas gia th dhlwsh toy k. Polydwra sto ``EQNOS THS KYRIAKHS'' oti o SYNASPISMOS, ena koinoboyleytiko komma, einai h fwlia ths bias;

ANTWNAROS: Einai profanes oti oi dhlwseis toy k. Polydwra den einai tipota perissotero h tipota ligotero apo mia anoixth kai pollakis diatypwmenh prosklhsh  proklhsh pros oles tis koinoboyleytikes dynameis toy topoy, na katadikasoyn rhta kai xwris perifraseis th bia kai na apomonwsoyn toys ekfrastes ths, ap` opoy kai an aytoi proerxontai.

KAKALHS: H kybernhsh katadikazei thn astynomikh bia, me xarakthristiko to teleytaio kroysma barbarothtas sto astynomiko tmhma ths Omonoias;

ANTWNAROS: Exete ypoch sas tis dhlwseis ths kybernhshs; Fantazomai oti doyleyete kai to Sabbatokyriako.

KAKALHS: Profanws. H erwthsh einai h ejhs: Anagnwrizei politikes eyqynes h kybernhsh se ayto to neo kroysma astynomikhs bias;

ANTWNAROS: H shmerinh kybernhsh exei apodeijei pera apo opoiadhpote amfibolia sthn prajh oti tetoioy eidoys symperifores apo memonwmena organa ths tajhs, oxi mono katadikazontai aperifrasta, alla ginontai kai antikeimeno idiaitera aysthrhs kai endelexoys ereynas me parallhlh parapomph sth Dikaiosynh. Kai epiballontai stoys parabates oles oi problepomenes poines. Den einai qema kybernhsewn oti yparxoyn anqrwpoi, memonwmenoi, poy parabainoyn to kaqhkon toys.

SPYRAKH: Shmerina dhmosieymata, kyrie Ekproswpe, anaferoyn oti binteo me analogo periexomeno me ayto poy eide to fws ths dhmosiothtas to perasmeno Sabbato, kykloforoyn kai alla metajy twn astynomikwn. Me bash ayta ta dhmosieymata exoyn doqei odhgies gia ereynes oytws wste na mh diapistwqei pali mesw ths dhmosiopoihshs oti yparxoyn kai alla tetoia peristatika, ta opoia exoyn binteoskophqei;

ANTWNAROS: Sthn topoqethsh moy hmoyn apolytws safhs. Opoiodhpote peristatiko bias, opoiadhpote xrhsh bias einai apolytws katadikastea.

SPYRAKH: Allo rwthsa. Exoyn doqei entoles na ginoyn ereynes gi` ayta ta binteo, ta opoia... ;

ANTWNAROS: Egw sxoliazw sygkekrimena peristatika kai asfaleis plhrofories.

TSIOYFOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epibebaiwnete tis plhrofories, poy eidan to fws ths dhmosiothtas olo ayto to dihmero oti o Ypoyrgos Dhmosias Tajews ypebale thn paraithsh toy ston Prwqypoyrgo h eqese telos pantwn sth diaqesh toy Prwqypoyrgoy thn paraithsh toy;

ANTWNAROS: Den exw ypoch moy kati tetoio.

KAKALHS: Eipate, oti den einai qema ths kybernhshs poy memonwmena atoma...

ANTWNAROS: Eipa: Qema kybernhsewn.

KAKALHS: ... parabiazoyn to kaqhkon toys. Peite moy, qymaste pote katadikase h kybernhsh astynomikoys, poy parabiazoyn to kaqhkon toys;

ANTWNAROS: Ti ennoeite, oti den katadikase;

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, mexri twra exoyn kataggelqei apeira peristatika. Anariqmhta peristatika astynomikhs bias kai se astynomika tmhmata kai ektos astynomikwn tmhmatwn. Mexri twra, h kybernhsh elege oti h astynomia kanei kala th doyleia ths. Ayto den einai mia politikh stash;

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh exei katadikasei me tropo aperifrasto thn askhsh politikhs bias apo memonwmena organa ths Ellhnikhs Astynomias, sthn opoia oloi emeis oi Ellhnes polites exoyme empisteytei thn perifroyrhsh ths ennomhs tajhs, ths perioysias, ths zwhs mas kai sthn opoia yphretoyn, opws jerete, merikes dekades xiliades gynaikes kai antres. Dikoi mas sympolites. H aparadekth symperifora ligwn memonwmenwn de mporei na skiasei to ergo, to opoio prosferoyn oi polloi. H kybernhsh katadikazei, opws sas eipa, me aperifrasto tropo kai opws jerete, ayto egine kai me dhlwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy me ton pio jekaqaro tropo.

KAKALHS: Qymaste thn apanthsh, poy dwsate thn perasmenh ebdomada otan sas rwthsa gia tis asteies poines, poy epiblhqhsan ston astynomiko dieyqynth ths Qessalonikhs gia thn ypoqesh toy agrioy jylodarmoy toy Kyprioy foithth; Parapempate sto Ypoyrgeio. Ayth htan mia sygkekrimenh politikh stash.

ANTWNAROS: Oi topoqethseis moy einai jekaqares kai den epidexontai kamia apolytws amfisbhthsh.

GKOYTZANHS: Mias kai anaferqhkate kai sto peristatiko ths Qessalonikhs, na rwthsw, se ayto to peristatiko o astynomikos dioikhths timwrhqhke me 15 hmeres diaqesimothta kai metateqhke sto Kilkis, dhladh 40 xlm makria apo th Qessalonikh. Oi poines poy qa epiblhqoyn twra qa einai paromoies;

ANTWNAROS: Ypoqeseis egw den kanw para ton tropo me ton opoio prospaqeite na moy ekmaieysete mia problech. Sas parakalw na perimenete thn ekbash twn ereynwn poy qa ginoyn kai olhs ths diadikasias.

MELIGKWNHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, eipate oti h dhlwsh toy k. Polydwra oti ``o Synaspismos einai fwlia ths bias'' einai mia prosklhsh-proklhsh pros oles tis koinoboyleytikes dynameis na katadikasoyn th bia. Den einai anoikth kathgoria ayto;

ANTWNAROS: Isxyoyn osa eipa molis pro oligoy.

SPYRAKH: Hqela na rwthsw, ean h kybernhsh qewrei oti h mexri twra epiblhqeises poines se proswpa ta opoia eixan askhsei bia, astynomikoys poy eixan askhsei bia, se astynomikoys epiorkoys, htan tetoies poy na apoteloyn paradeigmatismo gia thn apotroph paromoiwn prajewn.

ANTWNAROS: Exw pei kai alles fores oti se mia megalh omada merikwn dekadwn xiliadwn atomwn twn swmatwn asfaleias, stoys opoioys exei anateqei mia sygkekrimenh apostolh, de mporei na apokleisei kaneis na yparjoyn kai atoma poy parabainoyn to kaqhkon poy toys exei anateqei apo thn koinwnia. Ta atoma ayta timwroyntai, qa timwroyntai kai apomonwnontai. Qa hqela na sas pw, omws, me ayth thn eykairia --oxi me th dikh sas erwthsh, alla me diafora dhmosieymata-- prospaqoyn orismenoi na dhmioyrghsoyn thn entypwsh sthn koinh gnwmh oti ayta ta fainomena emfanisthkan shmera, xqes, ep` ayths ths kybernhshs. Ayta ta fainomena einai qemata paraloghs symperiforas kai to lew gia mia akomh fora, streblhs antimetwpishs toy ergoy, poy exei anaqesei h koinwnia se sympolites mas. Den qa dexqw omws, se kamia periptwsh oti epi twn hmerwn ths shmerinhs kybernhshs emfanisthkan ayta ta fainomena gia prwth fora h ogkwqhkan. Kai qa sas ypenqymisw orismena stoixeia: Prin apo liga xronia, to 2002, otan h shmerinh kybernhsh htan sthn antipoliteysh, otan th xwra thn kybernoyse to shmerino komma ths antipoliteyshs -to PASOK- kai otan Ypoyrgos ekeinhs ths kybernhshs htan o shmerinos arxhgos toy PASOK, o k. Giwrgos Papandreoy, sthn ethsia Ekqesh ths Dieqnoys Amnhstias ginotan mneia gia ``swreia ypoqesewn kakometaxeirishs, poy se orismenes periptwseis isodynamoysan me basanisthria eis baros kratoymenwn kata th syllhch kai krathsh toys sta astynomika tmhmata''. Se ayto to keimeno, ginetai logos gia 66 periptwseis. Kai oxi mono ayto. H Dieqnhs Amnhstia ekane tote logo gia ``kaqestws sxedon oloklhrwtikhs nte fakto atimwrhsias gia ta astynomika organa''. Tote. Dhladh, to 2002. Kai tote kai twra, osoi parabainoyn to kaqhkon toys einai ypologoi enanti ths koinwnias kai fysika enanti toy nomoy.

SPYRAKH: Me sygxwreite, alla an moy epitrepete, einai katanohta ola ta stoixeia poy mas dwsate, alla egw rwthsa allo pragma. An oi poines poy exoyn epiblhqei sto parelqon, epi ths dikhs sas kybernhshs stoys epiorkoys astynomikoys einai tetoies, poy paradeigmatika na apotrepoyn ton epomeno na parabiasei ton orko toy. Qelw mia krish...

ANTWNAROS: Sas apanthsa molis.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Xwris na amfisbhtw ta stoixeia ths Dieqnoys Amnhstias...

ANTWNAROS: Den mporeite, allwste, giati mporw na sas dianeimw to keimeno.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Den exw kai proqesh. Wstoso, den mporoyme na mhn katagracoyme, oti toylaxiston to teleytaio diasthma mera para mera exoyme ena fainomeno bias apo thn astynomia. Toylaxiston ton teleytaio xrono. Qa mporoysame na poyme oti h astynomia, dhladh, brisketai se dialysh ayth th stigmh;

ANTWNAROS: H astynomia den brisketai se dialysh, h astynomia exei sygkekrimenh apostolh thn opoia kai epitelei. Den dexomai, omws, th diapistwsh, thn opoia kanate ``mera para mera'' kai tetoia alla yperaploysteytika, ta opoia molis diatypwsate.

SARANTAKOS: Me dedomeno oti to binteo ayto proeblhqh ena xrono meta apo th lhch toy, h kybernhsh epishmws sysxetizei thn probolh toy binteo to Sabbato me ena epeisodio poy egine thn Paraskeyh to brady sthn Texnopolh, poy sto epikentro enos kayga breqhke o ypodioikhths twn MAT, o opoios kai jylokophqhke;

ANTWNAROS: Den kanw kanena tetoio sysxetismo.

SARANTAKOS: To rwtaw ayto, giati o k. Polydwras ejefrase thn aporia toy, pws synebh ayto to pragma.

ANTWNAROS: Apanthsa.

LEONTITSH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, h frash ths hmeras sthn politikh syzhthsh einai ayth toy k. Polydwra sth synenteyjh toy, sto reportaz twn ``NEWN'': ``Ti doyleia exw egw, se ena Ypoyrgeio me axreioys''; Pws th sxoliazete th dhlwsh;

ANTWNAROS: Den yparxei kamia amfibolia oti atoma, ta opoia parabainoyn me tetoio kraygaleo tropo ta kaqhkonta, to ergo, tis ypoxrewseis, poy toys exei anaqesei h Politeia, mono me apajiwtiko tropo mporoyn na xarakthristoyn.

XIWTHS: Qelw kai to sxolio sas gia kati allo: Pws ejhgeite to gegonos oti ola ayta ta kroysmata poy exoyme plhroforhqei toys teleytaioys mhnes, ta plhroforoymaste mono mesw twn meswn enhmerwshs. Giati pote h idia h Astynomia, h fysikh ths hgesia h h politikh ths hgesia, den exoyn apokalycei ena tetoio kroysma adikaiologhths bias ola ayta ta prohgoymena xronia.

ANTWNAROS: Den qelw na antikroysw ayta poy moy lete, dioti ayth th stigmh den exw proxeira stoixeia. Exw thn entypwsh, omws, oti den einai etsi ta pragmata. Den yparxei, omws, kamia amfibolia oti yparxoyn kai peristatika ta opoia h Dieyqynsh Eswterikwn Ypoqesewn ths Astynomias twn Swmatwn Asfaleias asfalws exei diereynhsei kai me bash alles plhrofories. Plhrofories poy proerxontai pera apo ta mesa enhmerwshs. Parola tayta, shmasia exei oti otan emfanizetai, me opoiondhpote tropo akoma kai mesa apo ta mesa enhmerwshs, ena tetoio peristatiko, h antidrash prepei na einai amesh, apofasistikh kai paradeigmatikh gia osoys parabainoyn, opws qa pw gia mia akomh fora, to kaqhkon poy toys exei anateqei. Ayto einai ekeino poy metraei.

XIWTHS: Shmasia den exei mono ayto, kata thn tapeinh moy apoch. Shmasia exei, epishs, otan yparxoyn tetoia kroysmata, na yparxoyn kai oi mhxanismoi apokalychs toys, xwris na xreiazetai kai h symbolh twn MME. Anarwtiemai, dhladh, ti eidoys nomoi siwphs epikratoyn se astynomika tmhmata, poy apokalyptontai kroysmata mono otan paremballontai ta MME h kapoia binteo ftanoyn se ayta.

ANTWNAROS: Epanerxomai se ayto poy sas eipa: Ayth th stigmh, den qelw na antikroysw o,ti moy lete. Den eimai, ayth th stigmh, proxeiros na sas dwsw stoixeia gia to qema poy qigete. Eimai bebaios oti ginontai ereynes kai apo tis armodies yphresies, eswterikes yphresies ths ellhnikhs Astynomias kai twn allwn Swmatwn Asfaleias, otan emfanizontai, otan yparxoyn stoixeia gia tetoia peristatika. Apo thn allh meria, pisteyw --kai mazi pisteyw kai h megalh pleiochfia twn Ellhnwn politwn-- oti h syntriptikh pleiochfia, h poly megalh pleiochfia twn gynaikwn kai twn andrwn poy toys exei anateqei to sygkekrimeno kaqhkon, kanoyn th doyleia toys. Den qa eprepe memonwmena peristatika na odhgoyn se mia prospaqeia apodomhshs ths ellhnikhs Astynomias.

TSIOYFOS: Thn ekqesh ths Dieqnoys Amnhstias thn opoia anaferete, th qymamai kai egw para poly kala, taytoxrona omws qymamai kai to ti eixe akoloyqhsei ths ekqesh ths Genikhs Amnhstias. Ennow, dhladh, thn anakoinwsh poy eixe ekdwsei tote h Nea Dhmokratia. Mhpws, anatrexontas na breite th sygkekrimenh ekqesh, brhkate kai th sygkekrimenh dhlwsh poy eixe kanei tote h Nea Dhmokratia;

ANTWNAROS: Apo dhmosieyma mias megalhs aqhnaikhs efhmeridas, ekeinh thn epoxh, ekeino to opoio blepw einai oti h tote kybernhsh apofyge na topoqethqei gia to periexomeno ths ekqeshs.

TSIOYFOS: Egw rwthsa gia thn anakoinwsh.

ANTWNAROS: Aytes tis plhrofories exw.

GKATSIOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, prin apo ligh wra, o boyleyths ths Neas Dhmokratias k. Kammenos, milwntas sto radiofwno toy ALPHA, epanefere thn protash toy gia katarghsh toy Ypoyrgeioy Dhmosias Tajhs. Qa hqela na rwthsw, ean exete kapoio sxolio gi` ayto.

ANTWNAROS: Den exw kanena sxolio.

LEONTITSH: Se ayth thn ypoqesh, ektos twn allwn, h Astynomia epixeirhse na parapoihsei kai ta stoixeia kai akoysan oloi tis ektimhseis toys h thn anakoinwsh toys oti eprokeito gia mia grioyla poy eixe kakopoihqei apo toys lhstes, oti telos pantwn aytos htan o logos poy toys metaxeirizontan etsi. Sth synexeia, omws, apodeixqhke oti den htan etsi. H ypoqesh prokeitai gia mia 42xronh, gia mia kloph tsantas. Eseis gnwrizete poios eyqynetai gi` ayth thn parapoihsh twn stoixeiwn;

ANTWNAROS: Fantazomai oti den perimenete apo ton Kybernhtiko Ekproswpo na gnwrizei leptomereies gia th syntajh toy astynomikoy deltioy...

LEONTITSH: Einai zhthma syntajhs astynomikoy deltioy mono;

ANTWNAROS: Ekeino poy exei shmasia einai oti, opws sas eipa kai prohgoymenws, osoi parabainoyn to kaqhkon toys prepei na timwrhqoyn kai na apomonwqoyn. Ayto einai poy metraei.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, th mia fora o k. Polydwras apo bhmatos Boylhs eixe pei oti kanei aggareia se ayto to Ypoyrgeio. Twra, anarwtietai, ti doyleia exw egw me aytoys toys axreioys se ayto to Ypoyrgeio. Yparxei kai h plhroforia oti eqese thn paraithsh toy sth diaqesh toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai den egine dekth. Xarh kanei o k. Polydwras sthn kybernhsh;

ANTWNAROS: Rwthqhka eisagwgika kai topoqethqhka gia ton Ypoyrgo Dhmosias Tajhs.

GKOYTZANHS: Htan allh h erwthsh. Htan ean apolambanei ths empistosynhs toy Prwqypoyrgoy.

ANTWNAROS: Egw den prokeitai na topoqethqw se tetoies ``paixnidiarikes'' ekfraseis san aytes poy diatypwsate eseis.

GKOYTZANHS: Oxi egw. Einai toy k. Polydwra.

ANTWNAROS: Sthn erwthsh sas anaferomai kai sas parakalw para poly na mh moy apodidete pragmata poy den eipa.

GKOYTZANHS: Sygnwmh. Den hqela na to apodwsw. Lew oti egine parermhneia.

ANTWNAROS: Anaferomai apokleistika kai mono sthn erwthsh, me ton tropo poy th qesate.

KAKALHS: Mhpws qymaste pote allote o Prwqypoyrgos eixe kataggeilei, eixe apodokimasei aytes tis prajeis astynomikhs bias kai ta basanisthria se astynomika tmhmata poy, kata diasthmata, exoyn kataggelqei. Giati to ekane xqes; Mhpws mono gia kaqara proeklogikoys logoys;

ANTWNAROS: Den antilambanomai to nohma ths erwthshs sas...

KAKALHS: Exoyn kataggelqei polles fores basanisthria (den akoygetai) kai pote den exei ginei.

ANTWNAROS: O Prwqypoyrgos exei apodeijei epaneilhmmenws thn eyaisqhsia toy se qemata poy exoyn sxesh me thn prostasia twn atomikwn eleyqeriwn kai twn anqrwpinwn dikaiwmatwn.

KAKALHS: Ayto lew, pws to exei apodeijei; Qymaste kamia allh dhlwsh toy;

ANTWNAROS: Qa sas steilw oles tis omilies toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai eimai bebaios oti qa tis diabasete.

XIWTHS: Se ena allo qema, k. Ekproswpe. Thn perasmenh ebdomada eidan to fws ths dhmosiothtas dyo dhmoskophseis poy emfanizan sxedon mhdenikh diafora anamesa sta dyo megalytera kommata. Thn Kyriakh eixame allh mia poy emfanize mia diafora, ean qymamai kala, ligo panw apo dyo monades. Shmera, maqainoyme oti yparxei allh mia dhmoskophsh, h opoia epishs emfanizei diafora panw apo dyo monades. Qelw na sas rwthsw: Prwton, poia qewreite apo aytes tis kathgories dhmoskophsewn oti kineitai perissotero pros thn pragmatikothta kai deyteron, ean qewreite oti ston tropo me ton opoio diejagontai oi dhmoskophseis sthn Ellada, yparxei kapoio problhma kai emfanizoyn se toso mikro diasthma megales apokliseis.

ANTWNAROS: Den prokeitai na kanw kanena sxolio gia qemata dhmoskophsewn.

XIWTHS: Oyte gia to qesmiko plaisio;

ANTWNAROS: Oxi. Exei topoqethqei o Ypoyrgos k. Roysopoylos.

N. PAPADHMHTRIOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qa hqela na epanelqw sto prohgoymeno, sto qema ayto toy binteo. Exoyme anameijh ths Dieyqynshs Eswterikwn Ypoqesewn ths Astynomias. Se prohgoymeno peristatiko, se ayto to legomeno kai ws ``zartiniera'' den eixame kamia tetoia anameijh. Mhpws telika exoyme twra anameijh ths sygkekrimenhs Dieyqynshs, giati ta peristatika einai pleon para polla;

ANTWNAROS: Menw se ayta poy sas eipa, oson afora thn pyknothta h th syxnothta me thn opoia yparxoyn ayta ta peristatika. Ekana mia synolikh topoqethsh sthn opoia kai menw.

KAKALHS: Sto qema ths anergias hqela na staqw. Mporeite na mas peite poses apo aytes tis 170 xiliades qeseis ergasias poy dhmioyrghqhkan thn teleytaia trietia einai monimhs kai staqerhs apasxolhshs, posoi einai merikhs apasxolhshs, posoi einai ston dhmosio kai posoi ston idiwtiko tomea;

ANTWNAROS: Epeidh thn perasmenh ebdomada h armodia ekproswpos toy PASOK, h k. Damanakh, anaferqhke se ayto to qema legontas oti sthn Ellada yparxei --xrhsimopoiw ta logia ths gia na deijw thn yperbolh--``zoferh ergasiakh pragmatikothta me idiaitera chla pososta merikhs apasxolhshs'' exw edw ta statistika stoixeia ta opoia profanws h k. Damanakh den ypopteyetai oti yparxoyn. Qa sas pw gia to 2003 kai qa sas pw kai gia to 2006 opoy einai ta teleytaia diaqesima stoixeia. O mesos oros ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs twn 27, as baloyme toys 25 giati oi dyo prosteqhkan ek twn ysterwn. To pososto merikhs apasxolhshs stis xwres aytes to 2003 htan 16,5%. Sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh twn 15 18,2%, sthn Ellada 3,9%. 2006: Ta idia pososta. Eyrwpaikh Enwsh twn 25 htan to 2006 18,2%, Eyrwpaikh Enwsh twn 15 20,2%. Se oles tis xwres dhladh yparxei mia ayjhsh. Sthn Ellada 5,5%, dhladh sthn Ellada einai to ena tetarto mesoy oroy ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs, poly xamhlo. Synepws ola ayta ta stoixeia milane mona toys, einai eyrwpaika stoixeia, den einai ellhnika stoixeia.

KAKALHS: Ep` aytoy, mia deyterh erwthsh an moy epitrepete. Ta shmerina stoixeia ths Statistikhs Yphresias milane gia ayjhsh ths anergias sto 9,5%.

ANTWNAROS: Den gnwrizw ta sygkekrimena stoixeia. Eyxaristws, qa eimai edw ayrio na dwsw apanthseis sta erwthmata sas. H an qelete eyxaristws argotera se thlefwnikh epikoinwnia poy qa exoyme na sas dwsw ena sxolio afoy enhmerwqw.

KAKALHS: Nai. Alla qelw na epishmanw oti einai poly makria apo to stoxo poy eixate qesei san proeklogika...

ANTWNAROS: Na enhmerwqw kai qa sas apanthsw.

MELIGKWNHS: Eidame prin thn apopeira parapoihshs twn stoixeiwn gia ta peri ``grioylas'' poy apodeixqhke 42xronh gynaika kai eixame dei kai sthn epishmh anakoinwsh ths Dieyqynshs Qessalonikhs na legetai epishs oti o foithths epese panw sth zarntiniera h kati tetoio. Ola ayta den stoixeioqetoyn mia apopeira sygkalychs apo thn pleyra ths astynomias; Ton pragmatiko (den akoygetai)...

ANTWNAROS: Egw den blepw kati tetoio. Blepw endexomenws oti aytoi oi opoioi htan enoxoi, aytoi prospaqhsan na sygkalycoyn orismena peristatika, orismena stoixeia. Kai an apodeixqei kati tetoio, asfalws qa einai ypologoi kai gi` ayto. Alla, ayto einai antikeimeno ereynas. Den eimai egw se qesh na sas apanthsw panw se ayto.

KAKALHS: To stoixo ``otan akoys tajh, anqrwpino kreas myrizei'' ton exete ypoch sas;

ANTWNAROS: Den ton exw ypoch moy.

KAKALHS: Odysseas Elyths einai apo th ``Maria Nefelh''.

GKOYTZANHS: Katadikazei h kybernhsh memonwmena peristatika kai ta qewrei ola ayta memonwmena peristatika. Dhmioyrgeitai omws h entypwsh oti politika kalyptei thn en genei leitoyrgia ths astynomias kai to erwthma moy einai ean skopeyei na kanei kati perissotero.

ANTWNAROS: Sas eipa oti h astynomia exei ena sygkekrimeno ergo. Sthn astynomia ergazontai, apasxoloyntai merikes dekades xiliades gynaikes kai andres, Ellhnes sympolites mas. H symperifora ligwn, memonwmenwn atomwn den mporei na amayrwsei se kamia periptwsh ayto poy kanei to synolo.

MELIGKWNHS: Otan omws ginetai gnwsto oti epi ena xrono, apo persi ton Ioynio ayto to binteo kykloforoyse apo kinhto se kinhto astynomikoy, mhpws telika den einai ligoi kai ti mporei kaneis na ypoqesei gi` aytoys toys anqrwpoys poy eixan sto kinhto toys ena binteo me to opoio (den akoygetai).

ANTWNAROS: Den jerw ean eseis exete plhrofories diaforetikes apo tis dikes moy. Egw qa perimenw pera apo tis poines poy hdh epeblhqhsan, na oloklhrwqei kai h ereyna. H katadikh apo thn pleyra ths kybernhshs, opws kai apo thn pleyra ths koinwnias, toy synoloy ths koinwnias, pisteyw oti einai kaqoristikh kai pera apo opoiadhpote amfisbhthsh.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Epitrecte moy na kanw ena logiko alma san ayto poy kaname sto maqhma, sth logikh gia to mpoyzoyki kai ton astynomo. Alla, otan o k. Polydwras leei oti den qelw na exw kamia sxesh me aytoys toys axreioys poy askoyn bia kai legontas oti o SYNASPISMOS einai h fwlia ths bias, ennoei oti kai o SYNASPISMOS exei mesa axreioys;

ANTWNAROS: Den mporw na sas parakoloyqhsw pragmatika, dioti ayta einai pneymatika almata. Foboymai, oti o kaqhghths sas sth logikh den qa sas edine poly megalo baqmo.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Einai gnwsto, kyrie Ekproswpe, oti to mpoyzoyki einai organo, o astynomos einai organo...

ANTWNAROS: Jerw oti se alla mporei na parete poly ychlo baqmo, alla edw foboymai oti qa eixate dyskolia!

KALARITHS: Erwthqhkate hdh gia to an o k. Polydwras apolambanei ths empistosynhs toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Qelw na rwthsw kati diaforetiko: O Prwqypoyrgos einai ikanopoihmenos apo ton tropo poy leitoyrgoyn kai oson afora thn eswterikh toys dioikhsh kai oson afora thn apodosh toys oi diwktikoi mhxanismoi ypo thn ypoyrgeia toy k. Polydwra;

ANTWNAROS: O Prwqypoyrgos topoqethqhke sto sygkekrimeno symban me sygkekrimenh dhlwsh h opoia einai safhs.

Sas eyxaristw.

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