Greek Government Press Briefing, 07-03-27

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

GENIKH GRAMMATEIA ENHMERWSHS

Dieyqynsh Plhroforhshs

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Trith, 27 Martioy 2007

Ariqmos Deltioy: 64697450

Ekdosh 1

brf2703

YPOYRGOS EPIKRATEIAS

Aqhna, 27 Martioy 2007

Xairete.

" Synedriase, shmera, h Kybernhtikh Epitroph me qema thn tropopoihsh toy nomoy 2251 toy '94 peri prostasias toy katanalwth, nomo poy eishgeitai sth Boylh to Ypoyrgeio Anaptyjhs. Dhlwseis ekane, ejerxomenos, o armodios Ypoyrgos, k. Dhmhtrhs Sioyfas.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

MPOTSARAKOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, akoysame shmera mia dhlwsh toy Grammatea ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas k. Stayroy, o opoios eipe oti pros stigmhn den yparxei kapoio qema me ton k. Tsitoyridh, alla ean prokycei kati allo, tote qa einai sthn armodiothta toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Afhse etsi anoikto to endexomeno na epiblhqoyn kapoies kyrwseis ston Ypoyrgo h akoma kai na paraithqei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw erwthqei gia to qema kai isxyei h apanthsh thn opoia exw dwsei.

SPYRAKH: H kybernhsh pws ermhneyei ta deigmata twn teleytaiwn dhmoskophsewn stis opoies apotypwnetai oti yparxei  qa to pw hpia  mia anhsyxia apo thn pleyra twn politwn se sxesh me thn ejelijh ths ypoqeshs twn omologwn kai ths agoras toys apo ta Tameia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete oti den sxoliazw dhmoskophseis. Wstoso qa pw oti einai logiko na yparxoyn erwthmata gia mia synqeth ypoqesh, erwthmata ta opoia den apasxoloyn mono toys polites alla oloys mas. Gi' ayto akribws - kai apo thn prwth stigmh - epelhfqhsan oi armodies Arxes, o armodios Ypoyrgos, prokeimenoy na doqoyn apanthseis se ayta ta erwthmata, poy - epanalambanw  einai fysiko na apasxoloyn kai toys Ellhnes polites.

KAKALHS: Ektimate oti den yparxoyn politikes eyqynes gia to gegonos oti ta asfalistika Tameia  toylaxiston 15 apo oti blepw - arxisan na ependyoyn apo to 2005 kai meta se omologa, dhladh se titloys ychloy kindynoy me apotelesma na exoyn hdh shmeiwsei apwleies, logistikes estw;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayto to peri ``logistikwn apwleiwn'' antilambaneste oti einai parelkystiko...

KAKALHS: Politikwn eyqynwn, kyriws me endiaferei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: ... dioti ena omologo apodidei sto telos. Otan dhladh erqei h hmeromhnia lhjhs gia na apodwsei ayta ta opoia prepei na apodwsei symfwna me ta osa exei desmeytei aytos poy exei poylhsei to omologo kai bebaiws perimenei aytos poy exei agorasei to omologo. Sas qymizw oti ena Tameio  to eipa kai xqes me aformh antistoixh erwthsh  agorazei xwris thn egkrish ths kybernhshs. Ena Tameio exei aytonomh diadikasia. Oles oi agores sta Tameia eginan, ej' oswn gnwrizw, omofwnws. Ws kratiko omologo, epanalambanw, exeis thn eggyhsh toy kefalaioy soy syn to opoio epitokio prokycei. Alla sto telos, sth lhjh. Den mporei kanenas na milhsei ena, dyo, tria h pente xronia meta thn ekdosh enos omologoy kai na problecei oti to omologo ayto den qa apodwsei.

KAKALHS: Ara eylogeite thn topoqethsh se omologa. Ayto prokyptei apo thn topoqethsh sas prohgoymenws.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas qymizw oti mexri to 1990 h '91 h topoqethsh twn xrhmatwn twn Tameiwn htan mhdenikh. Dhladh, ta xrhmata twn Tameiwn ta ajiopoioyse tote h Trapeza ths Ellados. Ta Tameia den epairnan para 0% epitokio, enw thn idia wra, ean xreiazontoysan na daneistoyn, daneizontoysan me epitokio panw apo 20  25%. Ta qymomaste oloi, den einai kai poly palia ta gegonota poy perigrafw. Kata synepeia, apo th stigmh poy o nomos epitrepei to pososto ekeino poy epitrepei gia thn ajiopoihsh twn xrhmatwn toy Tameioy se kinhth kai akinhth perioysia, einai logiko - kai ginetai epi seira etwn pleon - ta Tameia na prospaqoyn na ajiopoihsoyn oso perissotero ginetai ta xrhmata twn asfalismenwn toys. To zhthma einai ean qa yparxei kerdos h zhmia sth diadikasia ayth. Epanalambanw, loipon, gia na mhn yparjei kamia amfibolia, ayto allwste to opoio eixe apanthqei kai apo ypoyrgoys toy PASOK poy htan ypoyrgoi Apasxolhshs, otan eixan erwthqei sto parelqon gia to idio akribws qema: Ena omologo krinetai sto telos. Sigoyra ena omologo exei eggyhmeno to kefalaio toy.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mias kai eida oti ta gnwrizete kai ta texnika ayta qemata, ta opoia gia mas einai kai dyskola, mporeite na mas lysete dyo, treis apories;

ROYSOPOYLOS: An mporw.

GKOYTZANHS: H mia einai giati jafnika to 2005, dekapente Dioikhtes Tameiwn, o k. Shmaioforidhs o opoios prohgoymenws eixe asxolhqei me to emporio goynarikwn kai me benzinadiko, apofasise na kanei ena tetoio dieqnes paixnidi titlwn kai oi ypoloipoi omologoi toy. Mhpws exei problhmatisei thn kybernhsh; To deytero einai giati espasan toys titloys toys opoioys eixan, poy ayto den ginetai me kerdos. Kai to trito  phgainei sto allo skelos - einai to ejhs: To Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias otan ekdidei ena tetoio omologo poy sthn oysia einai dhmosios daneismos, jerei poy qa katalhjei to omologo h aplws bgazei enan titlo sto xaos ths pagkosmias xrhmatisthriakhs kinhshs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oson afora to trito skelos ths erwthshs sas, poy einai kaqara texniko, den to gnwrizw. Qa parakaloysa na apeyqynqeite sto Ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn. Den mporw na apanthsw, den exw ayth th gnwsh.

GKOYTZANHS: Exei th shmasia toy omws.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se oti afora ta ypoloipa poy me rwthsate, epanalambanw - kai nomizw oti kalyptetai h erwthsh sas apo apanthseis poy exw dwsei kai xqes kai poy dinw kai shmera - oti h ajiologhsh twn omologwn ginetai sto telos, oti ta Tameia apofasizoyn gia na agorasoyn omologa. En prokeimenw, mias kai anaferqhkate sthn teleytaia 2etia, epanalambanw oti oi apofaseis twn Dioikhtikwn Symboyliwn twn Tameiwn einai omofwnes. Sas qymizw ayto poy sas eipa kai xqes: Sta Dioikhtika Symboylia twn Tameiwn metexoyn proswpa kai apo syndikalistikoys foreis kai to gnwrizete ayto. Sas janalew oti oi apofaseis twn Tameiwn einai apofaseis poy lambanontai aytonomws. Gia paradeigma, sas edwsa xqes to keimeno apanthshs toy yfypoyrgoy toy PASOK k. Farmakh. Exw ena allo eggrafo to opoio exei thn ypografh ths Genikhs Dieyqyntrias toy Ypoyrgeioy Apasxolhshs epi ypoyrgias toy teleytaioy ypoyrgoy Apasxolhshs toy PASOK. Anaferei metajy allwn, se apanthsh ths se eggrafo poy esteile to Tameio Syntajewn Efhmeridopwlwn kai Ypallhlwn Praktoreiwn: ``Allwste epi twn diatajewn aytwn  anaferetai sta idia qemata  to Ypoyrgeio sas apanthse oti oi ependyseis stoys en logw titloys energoyntai eleyqera xwris periorismoys kai xwris prohgoymenh egkrish mas''. Exoyn, loipon, ta Tameia thn aytonomia na apofasisoyn gia thn ependysh poy qa kanoyn sta xrhmata ta opoia briskontai sta apoqematika toys.

KAPRALOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, o k. Papandreoy eipe oti epi twn hmerwn toy PASOK ta apoqematika twn Tameiwn ayjhqhkan. Epi twn dikwn sas hmerwn ti ginetai telika; Ayjhqhkan h meiwqhkan ta apoqematika;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nai, nomizw oti o k. Papandreoy to eipe sth Boylh. Zhthsa apo ton Ypoyrgo Apasxolhshs k. Tsitoyridh kai me exei promhqeysei me orismena stoixeia. Nomizw oti otan oloklhrwqei h symplhrwsh twn stoixeiwn aytwn, qa ta dwsei analytikotera sth dhmosiothta. Qa sas pw oti to 1993, symfwna me ta osa eipe o k. Papandreoy, yphrxan 3.285.125.000 eyrw sthn perioysia twn Tameiwn. To 2003, eipe, einai 21.826.925.000. Den synexise parapera. Na synexisw gia ta epomena dyo xronia egw. To 2004, ta 21.826.925.000 eginan 25.637.662.000. To 2005, ftasame sto poso twn 28.912.000.000. Dhladh, apo peripoy 22 dis to 2003, mesa se dyo xronia h perioysia ayjhqhke kata 6 dis peripoy, sta 29 dis eyrw peripoy. Blepoyme, loipon, oti otan apokryptontai stoixeia  kai h antipoliteysh to ekane ayto tis teleytaies 15 meres  dhmioyrgoyntai entypwseis oi opoies einai ceydeis kai den exoyn sxesh me thn pragmatikothta. Na sas qymisw oti armodio stelexos ths antipoliteyshs miloyse tis prwtes hmeres, anaferomeno sto omologo twn 280.000.000 eyrw, gia omologo 300.000.000 eyrw kai anarwtiotan poy xaqhkan ta 20.000.000 sthn poreia, enw to omologo ejedoqh enanti ths timhs twn 280.000.000 kai katelhje sto Tameio 280.000.000 eyrw. Se kaqe periptwsh, qelw na symplhrwsw ayto poy eixe pei kai o k. Tsitoyridhs apo ton perasmeno Aygoysto, se synenteyjh toy se efhmerida nomizw kai poy exei ginei prajh: Einai ayth h kybernhsh h opoia edwse sth dhmosiothta, me kanones diafaneias, dhmosieyontas sto internet ola ta stoixeia ta opoia aforoyn thn kinhth perioysia twn Tameiwn. Yparxei ena programma toy Ypoyrgeioy Apasxolhshs kai Koinwnikhs Prostasias, exei anakoinwqei poly kairo twra, toy opoioy h diadyktiakh dieyqynsh einai www.periousia.gr. Exei kanei ekteneis anakoinwseis o armodios Ypoyrgos k. Tsitoyridhs. To programma, se istoselida toy Ypoyrgeioy, perilambanei oles tis aparaithtes plhrofories kai ta stoixeia sxetika me thn akinhth kai akoloyqws me thn kinhth perioysia twn asfalistikwn forewn kai organismwn, enisxyontas etsi me staqero bhmatismo th diafaneia kai thn apotelesmatikothta sthn kaqhmerinh toys drash. Prajeis kai energeies pros thn kateyqynsh ths diafaneias, oxi mono sta logia, alla kyriws sthn prajh, fainontai mera me thn hmera.

SPYRAKH: Me ola ayta poy mas eipate, kyrie Ekproswpe, mporoyme na katanohsoyme oti kata thn kybernhsh den yparxei qema. To lew giati h aisqhsh poy yparxei sthn agora einai oti h kybernhsh qewrei oti an den oloklhrwqei h diadikasia ths Dikaiosynhs, den mporei na yparjei kai h diadikasia apodoshs eyqynwn. Eseis epimenete se ayth thn apoch;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Dhmioyrghsate mia bebaiothta h aisqhsh, opws eipate, gia na mhn sas adikhsw, h opoia omws en synexeia proxwrhse se symperasmata poy den exoyn sxesh me ayta poy eipa. Egw prospaqw na apokatasthsw thn alhqeia twn pragmatwn. Kai h alhqeia twn pragmatwn leei: Prwton, den yparxei omologo 300 ekatommyriwn eyrw, opws ychlo stelexos ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs mas eipe, gia na apodeijei oti dhqen kapoy sthn poreia xaqhkan ta 20 ekatommyria eyrw. To omologo einai 280 ekatommyria eyrw, 280 ekdoqhke, 280 katelhje sta Tameia. Deyteron, den yparxei zhmia, para thn opoia proseggish kanoyn orismenoi logistika, legontas oti xaqhkan tosa xrhmata mesa se 2 xronia. Kai ayto sas to anaferw me fraseis poy exoyn xrhsimopoihsei prokatoxoi ypoyrgoi toy PASOK legontas to aytonohto, ayto poy gnwrizei o kaqenas, o opoios exei asxolhqei ligo me ta omologa sthn agora: Sto telos to omologo apodidei sigoyra to kefalaio toy kai ena pososto -to opoio analoga me to omologo poikilei- kerdoys. Ara, loipon, kaneis den mporei na milhsei apo twra gia to pososto kerdoys. Triton, ekeino to opoio eipame apo thn prwth stigmh kai edw kai einai poly krisimo gia na mh dhmioyrghqei parejhghsh: Eipame oti an yparxei opoiadhpote parabatikh prajh, ayth qa thn anakalycoyme, qa thn apokalycoyme. Gi` ayto to logo o k. Tsitoyridhs apo thn prwth hmera edwse entolh wste na ginei h ereyna twn 10 hmerwn, h opoia katelhje se ena porisma to opoio esteile ston Eisaggelea. Gi` ayto to logo o k. Alogoskoyfhs qetei oles tis yphresies toy Ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn sth diaqesh twn arxwn, prokeimenoy na anakalyfqei an yparxei to opoiodhpote problhma. An yparxei, loipon, parabatikh symperifora den prokeitai na xaristoyme se kanenan. Ekeino omws to opoio einai bebaio, einai oti mia seira ``stoixeiwn'' ta opoia didontai apo thn antipoliteysh prokeimenoy na dhmioyrghqoyn entypwseis, einai stoixeia h elliph h ceydh. Ceydes einai to 300 ekatommyria, ellipes einai to apoqematiko twn Tameiwn, poio htan to 2003 epi kybernhsews PASOK kai poio einai shmera. Sas apedeija, molis prin apo ligo, oti mesa se 2 xronia ta apoqematika twn Tameiwn exoyn ayjhqei kata 6 disekatommyria eyrw. Mas to eipe to PASOK ayto; Oxi bebaia.

LEONTITSH: Symfwna me th dhmoskophsh ths MRB 2 stoys 3 erwthqentes polites diakrinoyn eyqynes ston Ypoyrgo Apasxolhshs ton k. Tsitoyridh. Ayto to apotelesma, to 66% twn politwn aphxei tis diaqeseis ths kybernhshs apenanti sto qema; Kai to lew dedomenoy oti oi Ypoyrgoi fainetai oti pairnoyn kapoies apostaseis, xqes gia paradeigma o k. Paylopoylos eipe ``na to doyme'', shmera o k. Stayroy afhse ola ta endexomena anoixta. Telika tiqetai qema anasxhmatismoy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sthn erwthsh sas poy diatypwnei dyo alla ypoerwthmata sta opoia apanthsa, qa meinw mono sto teleytaio: Oxi.

SPYRAKH: Se sxesh me thn prohgoymenh apanthsh sas, kyrie Ekproswpe, mas paroysiasate thn epixeirhmatologia ths kybernhshs. Qelw na rwthsw peran toytoy: Den problhmatizei thn kybernhsh oti ta sygkekrimena omologa ta opoia agorasthkan apo ta Tameia ekanan bolta se trapezes, se xrhmatisthriakes, se spitia oikonomias, opws legontai ta funds, gia na katalhjoyn telika sta Tameia me promhqeies poly ychles; Den qewrei dhladh h kybernhsh oti ayto einai ena zhthma pros diereynhsh tetoio poy mporei na ftasei akomh kai sthn apodosh politikhs eyqynhs; Den qa mporoyse dhladh  to lew poly apla- na erqei to ellhniko dhmosio kai na paroysiasei ston teliko apodekth to omologo toy; Kai oytws h allws afoy to eggyatai to ellhniko dhmosio me mia sygkekrimenh apodosh na to parei h na mhn to parei to Tameio me apofash toy dioikhtikoy toy symboylioy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanate mia anafora se praktikes ths agoras oi opoies den synebhsan gia prwth fora. Kata synepeia, stis praktikes, ston tropo poy leitoyrgei h agora, egw den exw na prosqesw kanena peraiterw sxolio. Nomizw oti an epikoinwnhsete -kai mporeite na epikoinwnhsete- me anqrwpoys ths agoras, me trapezites, me alloys poy asxoloyntai me omologa h me kinhtes ajies, qa diapistwsete oti milame gia prajeis oi opoies einai kaqhmerines. Ayth einai h prwth genikh diatypwsh kai diapistwsh. Pame omws parapera sthn oysia toy qematos: Sthn oysia toy qematos, emeis qeloyme mexri teloys na ereynhqei h ypoqesh, wste na mhn meinei h opoiadhpote skia h ean yparxei parabatikh prajh, ayth h parabatikh prajh na apokalyfqei kai oi opoioi ypaitioi na ftasoyn sth Dikaiosynh. Qelw na shmeiwsw, xwris na phgainw alloy thn koybenta, oti -epeidh egine poly koybenta gia ton Ypoyrgo Apasxolhshs, gia tis prajeis toy Ypoyrgoy kok- o Ypoyrgos Apasxolhshs ekeino to opoio krinei, einai th nomimothta twn prajewn twn Tameiwn. Oxi th skopimothta twn apofasewn twn dioikhtikwn symboyliwn. Kai nomizw oti antilambanomaste oloi th diafora poy yparxei metajy toy enos kai toy alloy qematos.

MPOTSARAKOS: Sto teleytaio poy eipate, oti krinei th nomimothta kai oxi th skopimothta kai oti oi apofaseis gia tis ependyseis lambanontai xwris thn egkrish ths kybernhshs, me tis apofaseis twn dioikhtikwn symboyliwn. Sto sxediasmo ths kybernhshs einai na allajei ayto; Na ginetai dhladh sto mellon kapoios elegxos skopimothtas h kapoios parapanw elegxos gia na dinetai h egkrish wste na ginetai kapoia ependysh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas qymizw oti prin apo liges hmeres o k. Tsitoyridhs exontas oloklhrwsei mia seira skecewn kai epafwn kai syskecewn, ekane kapoies anakoinwseis gia th megalyterh dynath diafaneia, th megalyterh dynath apodotikothta, apodosh sta apoqematika twn Tameiwn. Sas qymizw oti h diafaneia, ws to yp` ariqmon ena zhtoymeno apo toys Ellhnes polites, alla kai ws to yp` ariqmon ena aitoymeno apo thn idia thn kybernhsh, leitoyrgei yper toy xrhmatos toy polith, yper toy dhmosioy xrhmatos. Ean, loipon  qa kanw mia lektikh yperbash- kapoios hqele, se politiko epipedo anaferomai, na krycei to otidhpote, pragma to opoio einai adianohto gi` ayth thn kybernhsh, tote se kamia periptwsh den qa eixe proxwrhsei mhnes twra, se anakoinwseis kai se prajeis oi opoies odhgoyn sto entelws antiqeto apotelesma. Dhladh, sth megalyterh dynath diafaneia. Dioti fantasteite oti qa mporei na mpainei kapoios sto Internet, sto site to opoio anaferame, na blepei tis kinhseis twn perioysiakwn stoixeiwn twn Tameiwn. Ti megalyterh apodeijh xreiazetai kaneis gia na peistei oti den yparxei kanenos eidoys politikh skopimothta; Se o,ti afora ayto, h apanthsh gia mena einai dedomenh. Ekeino to opoio ereynatai einai ean synebhsan prajeis parabatikothtas, poioi einai aytoi poy tis ekanan, etsi wste oxi mono o Ellhnas poliths, h kybernhsh h idia na mporei na steilei thn ypoqesh sth Dikaiosynh. Na gnwrizei. Den einai ena eyxaristo qema to gnwrizoyme oloi mas- gia thn kybernhsh den einai kaqoloy eyxaristo. Poly perissotero poy ayth h kybernhsh den ekane typois shmaia ths th diafaneia, alla thn kanei prajh sthn kaqhmerinothta ths. Thn kanei prajh otan qesmika qwrakizei zhthmata ta opoia epi xronia afeqhkan aqwrakista me polla paraqyra. Thn kanei prajei sto logo kai sto ergo toy idioy toy Prwqypoyrgoy.

NASOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, epeidh eipate oti den einai h prwth fora poy symbainei oti synebh me thn agora kapoioy omologoy, exete kai allo paradeigma poy exei mia xrhmatisthriakh etaireia anakoinwsei 5 mhnes nwritera oti erxetai opoy na `nai kapoio omologo to opoio einai kryfo, dioti den perna apo thn agora omologwn kai poy mesa se mia hmera allazei 5 xeria entos kai ektos Elladas gia na katalhjei se kapoia Tameia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw oti h apanthsh poy edwsa sthn k. Spyrakh sas kalyptei. Sas kalesa de, kai mporeite ki eseis na to kanete, exete thn anesh toy reportaz, na epikoinwnhsete me stelexh ths agoras, dioti sthn eleyqerh agora kinoyntai ola osa syzhtoyme ayth th stigmh kai na diapistwsete toy logoy to alhqes.

KAKALHS: Eipate prohgoymenws oti ena omologo exei eggyhmeno to kefalaio. Ayto to lete meta logoy gnwsews kai analambanontas thn politikh eyqynh; Giati ap` o,ti exw akoysei ayta ta omologa einai ychloy riskoy kai mh eggyhmenhs apodoshs kai malista sto telos emfanizei ligotera apo to arxiko kefalaio. Ta prwta xronia dinoyn kapoia elkystika epitokia kai sto telos xaneis apo to kefalaio. Einai sigoyro oti einai etsi ta pragmata opws ta eipate;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Orqws xrhsimopoihsate th lejh apodosh. Den milame gia mh eggyhmenh apodosh kefalaioy, alla apodosh sto epipleon. Kaneis den mporei na gnwrizei poia qa einai se aytoy toy eidoys ta omologa h posostiaia apodosh, to kerdos dhladh, sto telos. Se kaqe periptwsh omws einai proxeiro kai einai kai parelkystiko na prospaqei kaneis logistika na apodeijei -otan ena omologo exei zwh mprosta toy allwn 15 etwn- oti exoyn xaqei xrhmata twra.

GKOYTZANHS: Gia na symbalw ligo sth syzhthsh sas me ton k. Kakalh. Ontws ta omologa, akoma kai ta ychloy riskoy, exoyn eggyhmeno kefalaio. Sto telos dhladh, sth lhjh toy omologoy to kefalaio qa einai idio se kaqe periptwsh me ayto to opoio jekinhse. Ekeino to opoio endexetai einai na mhn exei kamia apodosh. Kai sto sygkekrimeno twn 280 ekatommyriwn eyrw, prokyptei oti se kaqe periptwsh qa exei apodosh kata 5 ekatommyria eyrw ligotera ap` osa qa mporoyse na exei logw toy kykloy poy ekane dieqnws mesa se mia hmera. Gi` ayto, qa anazhthqei kapoia eyqynh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H eyqynh qa anazhthqei sto synolo ths diadikasias. Ayto einai gnwsto, to exoyme pei. Gi` ayto exoyn emplakei armodies arxes kai oxi mono o Eisaggeleas. Kai milaw armodies arxes kai gia th diakinhsh toy mayroy xrhmatos. Eirhsqw en parodw, na qymisw oti kai ayth h arxh einai qesmoqethmenh apo thn paroysa kybernhsh.

GKOYTZANHS: Na synexisw rwtwntas kati akomh; Se sxesh me to ychlo risko, gnwrizoyme oti yparxei enas oros sta Tameia, oti den mporoyn na ependyoyn perissotero apo to 23% twn apoqematikwn toys se metoxes.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, einai to 23%, an moy epitrepete na diorqwsw, se kinhth kai akinhth perioysia ek twn opoiwn to 60% einai se kinhth, dhladh peripoy to 14% sto synolo.

GKOYTZANHS: Entajei, swsta. Apo ekei kai pera, me ta omologa ychloy riskoy oi dioikhtes brhkan ena tropo na ayjhsoyn ayto to 23%. Eggyhmeno men to kefalaio sto telos, plhn omws oxi eggyhmenh h apodosh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, giati o nomos den leei 23% orio kerdoys. O nomos leei oti apo to 100% ths perioysias, kinhths kai akinhths, exei dikaiwma h dioikhsh enos Tameioy na ajiopoihsei to 23%. Apo ayto to 23%, to 60% mporei na to ajiopoihsei agorazontas kinhta stoixeia, dhladh omologa, metoxes k.o.k., to ypoloipo 40% se akinhta, ktismata dhladh. Ara, loipon, milame apo to synolo ths perioysias enos Tameioy oti peripoy to 14% mporei na topoqethqei se kinhth perioysia.

GKOYTZANHS: Dhladh, eseis lete oti den ayjhqhke ayto to 23% mesw twn omologwn ychloy riskoy apo ta Tameia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ennoeite ean exei megalyterh apodosh sto telos;

GKOYTZANHS: Oxi. Ean ekanan xrhsh megalyteroy posostoy toy kefalaioy toys, perissotero apo to 23%.

ROYSOPOYLOS; Epanalambanw oti otan oles oi apofaseis exoyn lhfqei omofwnws kai otan h nomimothta elegxetai apo to armodio ypoyrgeio, qewrw oti einai adianohto na exoyn proxwrhsei se yperbash toy 23% h toy 14% gia kinhtes ajies. Se kaqe periptwsh, epanalambanw oti einai profanes: Einai anakribes oti h perioysia twn Tameiwn exei meiwqei ta teleytaia dyo h tria xronia. Sas to apedeija me stoixeia. Kai qelw na pw oti ean stis xiliades prajeis poy ginontai kaqhmerina apo ta Tameia yphrje mia ``parabatikh'' prajh h yparjei kai deyterh h trith -th bazw se eisagwgika giati akomh den exei apofanqei h Dikaiosynh- ean yphrje parabatikh prajh emeis eimaste poy thn apokalycame kai emeis eimaste poy th stelnoyme sth Dikaiosynh. Kai epipleon, epanalambanw ayto poy sas eipa kai xqes, to eipe o Prwqypoyrgos thn Paraskeyh: Akomh kai ean dexqoyme oti mas phre tria xronia na anakalycoyme th diadikasia h th leitoyrgia enos systhmatos, einai shmantiko oti qesmika qwrakizoyme kai dhmioyrgoyme nees proypoqeseis. Kai den to qwrakizoyme qesmika, tyxaia. Exoyme mia seira gegonotwn ta opoia eginan protoy anakalyfqei to otidhpote, protoy anakalyfqei opoiadhpote parabatikh symperifora. H Arxh, dhladh, gia ton elegxo diakinhshs mayroy xrhmatos egine protoy apokalyfqei h opoiadhpote parabatikh symperifora ep` ayths ths kybernhsews. H enisxysh ths Epitrophs Kefalaiagoras egine apo ayth thn kybernhsh me thn empeiria toy '99-2000. H dynamikh h opoia dhmioyrgeitai apo kinhseis opws ayth poy anakoinwse o Prwqypoyrgos, oti dhladh oi dioikhseis twn Tameiwn sto ejhs qa egkrinontai protoy dioristoyn apo thn Trapeza ths Ellados kai thn Epitroph Kefalaiagoras, einai mia shmantikh dynamikh sthn kateyqynsh ajiopistias thn opoia prepei na exei to kratos apenanti ston polith. Eite to kratos einai ena Tameio, mikro h megalo, eite einai ena ypoyrgeio, eite opoiadhpote dhmosia yphresia. Ayth thn ajiopistia prospaqoyme na apokatasthsoyme me tetoies qesmikes, kala qwrakismenes, energeies.

MPOTSARAKOS: Qelw na rwthsw to ejhs: Qa allajei to plaisio poy afora ton elegxo skopimothtas poy den yphrxe mexri shmera; Dhladh, prepei na systaqei kapoia Epitroph poy qa egkrinei tis ependytikes apofaseis twn Tameiwn h qa synexisoyn ta Tameia na pairnoyn, me omofwnes dikes toys apofaseis kai aytonoma, tis ependytikes toys epiloges;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kateyqynsh poy proteinete, opws gnwrizete, anhkei se mia logikh yperbolikhs parembashs toy kratoys. Gnwrizoyme oloi mas oti kai h ellhnikh agora, alla kai h E.E. sthn opoia eimaste melh, kineitai sthn entelws antiqeth kateyqynsh: Dhladh, sth dhmioyrgia megalyterwn dynatothtwn  qwrakismenwn qesmika, epanalambanw- na leitoyrghsei h eleyqerh agora oso pio eleyqera ginetai. Ta Tameia exoyn aytonomh dioikhsh. H dioikhsh toys ayth  epanalambanw gia pollosth fora, giati exei th shmasia toy na akoygetai- den diorizetai apokleistika apo thn kybernhsh. Metexoyn polla melh sta Dioikhtika Symboylia poy einai diorismena apo syndikalistikes organwseis, apofasizei -kai apofasizei omofwnws en prokeimenw se aytes tis prajeis- na proxwrhsei sthn ajiopoihsh twn perioysiakwn stoixeiwn. Fantazomai oti to idio ginetai kai me to Tameio twn dhmosiografwn, to Tameio twn giatrwn, to Tameio twn dikhgorwn. Dhladh, se ola ta Tameia yparxei mia dioikhsh h opoia apofasizei ean ``ta xrhmata poy exoyme ta afhnoyme kai koimoyntai kai den apodidoyn h prospaqoyme na kerdisoyme to megalytero dynato ofelos wste na ayjhqei to apoqematiko toy Tameioy mas''. Ayto einai apolytws logiko gia mia omada  Dioikhtiko Symboylio en prokeimenw- poy diaxeirizetai ta apoqematika enos Tameioy. Den amfisbhteitai, loipon, epitrecte moy na to pw, kat` arxas, to oti ta Dioikhtika Symboylia olwn twn Tameiwn qeloyn na ayjhsoyn thn perioysia toys. Otan omofwnws lambanontai aytes oi apofaseis, einai ena akomh stoixeio oti h skech toys einai pros thn kalh kateyqynsh kai oxi pros thn ypopth kat` anagkh. Ekeino poy einai antikeimeno ereynas  kai ayto poy caxnoyme kai gi` ayto einai poy exoyn doqei oi entoles kai h Anejarthth Dikaiosynh leitoyrgei anejarthtws- einai kata poso yphrje parabatikh symperifora se aytes tis diadikasies.

MAYRIDHS: Eipate prohgoymenws oti ta melh twn Dioikhtikwn Symboyliwn qeloyn na ayjhsoyn thn perioysia...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eseis den qelete na ayjhsete thn proswpikh sas perioysia;

MAYRIDHS: To erwthma einai: Mporoyn, dedomenoy oti kai h kybernhsh exei paradexqei oti h pleionothta twn melwn aytwn einai aneparkhs kai den exoyn gnwsh se tetoioy eidoys polyploka xrhmatopistwtika zhthmata.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh ekeino poy exei paradexqei einai oti xreiazetai na enisxyqei akomh perissotero to systhma elegxoy  kai eipate pws- twn proswpwn poy dioikoyn ta Tameia. Exoyme, epanalambanw, dyo tmhmata: To prwto einai oi ekproswpoi twn syndikalistikwn organwsewn, oi opoioi den diorizontai apo thn kybernhsh alla apo tis syndikalistikes organwseis, eite einai h ADEDY, opws en prokeimenw, me polla stelexh ths sto Dioikhtikh Symboylio toy Tameioy Dhmosiwn Ypallhlwn, eite alles syndikalistikes organwseis. To deytero einai ekeino to tmhma poy diorizetai apo thn ekastote kybernhsh. Se o,ti afora to deytero, einai poly shmantiko na sygkrathsei kapoios oti ayth h kybernhsh kanei mia mikrh epanastash. Leei, dhladh ``den epilegw na steilw, apo edw kai pera, kommatika stelexh opws ekanan epi dekaeties oles oi prohgoymenes kybernhseis. Epilegw me bash ta biografika toys, me bash thn ajiosynh h thn empeiria poy aporreei apo ta biografika kai phgainw se dyo anejarthtoys organismoys: Thn Trapeza ths Ellados kai thn Epitroph Kefalaiagoras. Kai zhtw apo aytoys na egkrinoyn to diorismo''. Einai ena bhma poy afora kai th diafaneia kai thn kalyterh diaxeirish.

KAKALHS: Se o,ti afora ton elegxo nomimothtas, prosfato dhmosieyma filokybernhtikhs efhmeridas anefere oti apo ta 81 asfalistika Tameia ta 37 exoyn yperkalycei to orio toy 23%. Ayto h kybernhsh den to gnwrize h egine me dikh ths anoxh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epanalambanw oti o elegxos poy kanei o armodios ypoyrgos, to armodio ypoyrgeio einai elegxos nomimothtas. To na exw yperkalycei, shmainei oti exoyn fqasei to 23%.

KAKALHS: To exoyn jeperasei kata poly.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To exoyn jeperasei, lete eseis; Den to gnwrizw. Ean to exoyn jeperasei, qa moy epitrecete na perimenete, prokeimenoy na rwthsw to ypoyrgeio Apasxolhshs ean exei symbei ayto to peristatiko se kapoio h kapoia Tameia.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, ena tmhma toylaxiston ths koinhs gnwmhs, megalo symfwna me orismenoys, ligotero megalo symfwna me alloys, opws kai tmhma toy politikoy kosmoy kai shmantiko kommati toy ergasiakoy kinhmatos, qewrei oti o k. Tsitoyridhs den diasfalise thn perioysia twn Tameiwn, asxeta me to an eixe proqesh h oxi, kai toy apodidei politikh eyqynh. O k. Tsitoyridhs, epishs, exei pisw toy kai thn ypoqesh twn ``koymparwn''. Me ayta ta stoixeia sto paqhtiko toy, h kybernhsh qewrei oti o k. Tsitoyridhs mporei na xeiristei to asfalistiko;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epitrecte moy na pw, xwris na apajiwnw thn ajia ths opoias erwthshs ginetai, oti me isopedwtikes logikes bebaiws ejagontai symperasmata kai dhmioyrgoyntai entypwseis. Ekeino poy exw na sas pw egw, eis epanalhcin twn oswn eipa kai prohgoymenws, einai oti o armodios ypoyrgos Apasxolhshs dienergei dia twn yphresiwn toy elegxo nomimothtas kai oxi skopimothtas. Ti shmainei ayto se apla ellhnika: Oi dioikhseis twn Tameiwn, opws aytes apartizontai, apofasizoyn gia ta apoqematika twn Tameiwn. O ypoyrgos exei dynatothta, me bash to nomo, na dienerghsei elegxo nomimothtas  ean nomimws egine ayth h prajh- kai oxi skopimothtas, ean htan swsto na ependysoyn sto a', b', g' omologo.

SPYRAKH: Ep` aytoy, k. Ekproswpe: Epeidh xqes sthn ekpomph to MEGA ``ANATROPH'' paroysiasthkan alla tessera omologa ek twn opoiwn to ena, me bebaiothta, leei to reportaz oti agorasthke apo to Tameio twn ergazomenwn sta asfalistika Tameia. H kybernhsh symperilambanei ston elegxo ths kai ta sygkekrimena omologa ta opoia mexri stigmhs yparxoyn ws kwdikoi kai kaneis den jerei th diadromh toys;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O elegxos den periorizetai. H entolh pros tis armodies Arxes -kai milame gia thn Yphresia Eidikwn Elegxwn, milame gia thn Epitroph Kefalaiagoras, milame gia thn Arxh gia thn katapolemhsh toy mayroy xrhmatos- einai na ereynhsoyn oti krinoyn o,ti mporei na krybei yponoia parabatikothtas.

MELIGKWNHS: Dhladh, ayto poy mas lete einai oti oysiastika o k. Tsitoyridhs to mono poy elegxei einai ean ta Tameia ependyoyn perissotero h ligotero apo to 23% ths ajias toys, to opoio einai 14% ths kinhths ajias, opws eipate, se omologa. Den elegxei tipota allo. Oyte ean einai synqeta ta omologa, oyte ean einai ychloy riskoy, tipota. Etsi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas lew akribws ayto poy problepei o nomos.

MELIGKWNHS: Ayto.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kai bebaiws, ektos apo ayto, fantazomai oti yparxoyn kai alla pragmata. Opws gia paradeigma, ean para th boylhsh toy Dioikhtikoy Symboylioy o Proedros proxwrhse se mia prajh kai ayto einai ergo nomimothtas.

PAPAHLIOPOYLOS: Epeidh akoygontai diafores xronologies, se poio baqos xronoy einai ayth h entolh pros tis treis armodies Arxes kai meta th syskech poy egine xqes sto ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Oikonomias;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizw oti einai apo to 1998 kai meta.

GKOYTZANHS: Oi kinhseis aytes twn omologwn, opws kai twn dieqnwn Oikwn kai ola ayta, fysika kai ginontai nomotypa. Nomotypes einai, nomimes, ean to qelete. Wstoso, h aisqhsh poy paei na epikrathsei einai oti kapoioi apo aytoys toys dieqneis Oikoys h kapoioi endiamesoi ebgalan paxyles amoibes apo to ysterhma twn syntajioyxwn. Ayto den einai nomiko. Politiko symperasma einai. Kai ayto poy rwthsa egw prohgoymenws einai: H kybernhsh lambanei ypoch ths thn politikh diastash toy zhthmatos, ta mhnymata poy stelnei h koinwnia h qa apofasisei mono me bash th nomimothta kai ta nomotypa stoixeia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai endiaferoysa h erwthsh sas. Qa sas elega oti h Nea Dhmokratia ws kybernhsh ayto poy exei apodeijei ta tria xronia einai oti shmeiologika alla kai sthn oysia twn pragmatwn endiaferetai na mh dhmioyrgoyntai synqhkes oi opoies odhgoyn se parabiash kanonwn dikaioy, alla kai hqikwn kanonwn, arxwn kai ajiwn. Yp` ayth thn ennoia exei kinhqei se ola ta qemata kai etsi kineitai kai twra.

Sas eyxaristw.

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