Greek Government Press Briefing, 07-03-02

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

GENIKH GRAMMATEIA ENHMERWSHS

Dieyqynsh Plhroforhshs

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Paraskeyh, 2 Martioy 2007

Ariqmos Deltioy: 60263114

Ekdosh 1

Brf0203

ANAPLHRWTHS KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 2 Martioy 2007

Xairete.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, den jerw ean einai se gnwsh ths kybernhshs to skandalo diaspaqishs twn xrhmatwn toy Epikoyrikoy Tameioy twn dhmosiwn ypallhlwn, se synergasia me mia mikrh xrhmatisthriakh etaireia, h opoia den eixe ta exeggya.

ANTWNAROS: Perimenw thn erwthsh sas gia na topoqethqw.

PALAIOLOGOS: H erwthsh moy einai, ean einai se gnwsh ths kybernhshs kat` arxhn ayto kai ean to qewrei skandalo, dedomenoy oti emplekontai stelexh ta opoia exoyn dioristei apo thn kybernhsh.

ANTWNAROS: Sas qymizw oti h Epitroph Kefalaiagoras diorizetai apo thn kybernhsh. Kai sas qymizw epishs oti h shmerinh kybernhsh frontise na qwrakisei qesmika thn Epitroph Kefalaiagoras me tropo poy den eixe ginei pote sto parelqon. Exontas olh th dysaresth empeiria toy parelqontos apo tis gnwstes stoys Ellhnes polites epembaseis twn kybernhsewn toy PASOK sto Xrhmatisthrio, h entolh poy exoyn apo thn prwth hmera poy anelaban ta kaqhkonta toys ta melh ths Epitrophs Kefalaiagoras einai na probainoyn se plhrh kai ejonyxistiko elegxo gia kaqe qema poy empiptei sthn armodiothta toys. Ayth thn entolh ylopoiei h Epitroph Kefalaiagoras me th xqesinh ths apofash. Parallhla, qa hqela na sas qymisw oti o armodios Ypoyrgos exei diatajei hdh plhrh, ektakto kai epeigonta diaxeiristiko elegxo, orizontas malista kai aysthrh proqesmia oloklhrwshs aytoy toy elegxoy, mesa se deka hmeres. Perimenoyme ta apotelesmata ths ereynas, h opoia asfalws qa rijei apleto fws se ayth thn ypoqesh, h opoia odhgeitai, allwste, kai sth Dikaiosynh.

BLAXOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, to qema den einai an h Epitroph Kefalaiagoras ekane th doyleia ths, giati aytos einai o rolos ths. Bebaiws, to katalaba apolyta oti h kybernhsh ebale thn Epitroph kai leitoyrghse swsta. To qema einai to ejhs kai qa hqela mia apanthsh apo thn kybernhsh. Poios einai aytos poy eishghqhke kai poios einai aytos poy phre thn apofash na pane tosa polla lefta se mia etaireia xrhmatisthriakh, poly mikrh, h opoia apo o,ti leei kai h Epitroph Kefalaiagoras, exei bebarhmeno parelqon. Ayto einai to qema.

ANTWNAROS: Prwton, den qa hqela na kanw egw kanena poiotiko xarakthrismo gia etaireies oi opoies mexri thn poinh poy toys epeblhqh leitoyrgoysan nomima sthn ellhnikh epikrateia. Deyteron, oi apofaseis -- sas plhroforw -- toy sygkekrimenoy tameioy, lambanontai apo 14meles Dioikhtiko Symboylio, sto opoio symmetexoyn, metajy twn allwn, pente ekproswpoi ths ADEDY, enas ekproswpos syntajioyxwn, enas ekproswpos twn ergazomenwn, enas ekproswpos ths Genikhs Grammateias Koinwnikwn Asfalisewn kai pente ekproswpoi allwn Ypoyrgeiwn. Oles de oi apofaseis, ej oswn plhroforoymai, alla ayto einai kai antikeimeno toy diaxeiristikoy elegxoy, o opoios qa diapistwsei ean ontws einai etsi gi` aytes tis xrhmatisthriakes prajeis, lambanontai kata bash omofwnws.

BLAXOS: Pote loipon elhfqh h apofash... ;

ANTWNAROS: Den moy einai gnwsto. Parakalw na apeyqynqeite sta kat` idian Ypoyrgeia. Sas ejhghsa oti ayta ta qemata einai antikeimeno ereynas.

BLAXOS: Den einai antikeimeno ereynas, einai gnwsto kyrie Ekproswpe, pote elhfqh h apofash toy D.S. apo ta 14 melh, me epikefalhs ton k. Agapio Shmaioforidh, na pane ta tosa polla xrhmata toy Tameioy Dhmosiwn Ypallhlwn se mia ashmh etaireia;

ANTWNAROS: Ejakoloyqeite kai dinete xarakthrismoys toys opoioys egw, apo th qesh toy Kybernhtikoy Ekproswpoy, oyte na epibebaiwsw oyte na diaceysw prokeitai...

BLAXOS: Thn hmeromhnia qelw.

ANTWNAROS: Den einai apostolh toy Kybernhtikoy Ekproswpoy na jerei aytes tis hmeromhnies.

BLAXOS: (Den akoygetai) ton k. Agapio Shmaioforidh, poy qa mporoyse na eixe politeytei...

ANTWNAROS: Profanws qelete na kanete monologo.

BLAXOS: ... Den afora thn kybernhsh; Stelexos ths Neas Dhmokratias einai o k. Agapios Shmaioforidhs.

ANTWNAROS: Armodiothta ths Politeias einai na ejasfalizei th qesmikh qwrakish oloy aytoy toy plaisioy kai opoy yparxei ypocia gia kapoio qema, na probainei se ekeines tis energeies oi opoies epiballetai na ginoyn. Ayto kai egine, xwris kamia apolytws ekptwsh kai me apolyth synepeia.

BLAXOS: Rolos toy kratoys einai na prolambanei kai oxi na qerapeyei. (Den akoygetai) oti rolos toy kratoys einai na qerapeyei.

GKOYTZANHS: Etsi opws to perigracate, typika mporei na einai ola swsta...

ANTWNAROS: Milw gia qemata oysias.

GKOYTZANHS: Malista. Ek toy apotelesmatos prokyptei toylaxiston ena laqos. Dhladh ta dioikhtika organa den elegxontai gia thn apotelesmatikothta toys kai gia ta laqh toys; Elegxontai mono gia thn typikh nomimothta twn prajewn toys;

ANTWNAROS: Den eimai enhmeros gia to akribes plaisio leitoyrgias twn Tameiwn. Qa hqela omws na sas pw oti to Ypoyrgeio Apasxolhshs, me bash thn enhmerwsh thn opoia exw apo ton armodio Ypoyrgo k. Tsitoyridh, brhke to qesmiko plaisio gia th diaxeirish twn akinhtwn kai kinhtwn apoqematikwn twn Tameiwn sto shmeio poy to afhse to PASOK, to opoio kaqe allo para kalo htan. H politikh ths shmerinhs kybernhshs gia th diasfalish plhroys diafaneias kata th diaxeirish aytwn twn apoqematikwn, brisketai hdh se plhrh ejelijh mesw toy qesmikoy kai diaxeiristikoy eksygxronismoy aytoy toy plaisioy. Qa sas dwsw orismenes leptomereies gia na exete plhrh eikona. Gi` ayth th Deytera, meqayrio, exei oristei edw kai arketo kairo, h paradosh enos sxetikoy porismatos gi' ayto to qema, th meleth toy opoioy eixan anaqesei oi armodioi Ypoyrgoi ths shmerinhs kybernhshs se epitroph diakekrimenwn proswpikothtwn ypo ton Ypodioikhth ths Trapezas ths Elladas, ton k. Qwmopoylo, o opoios kai qa to paradwsei th Deytera ston k. Tsitoyridh. Ypologizetai oti h diadikasia, wste na ginoyn prajh ta eyrhmata, ta symperasmata ayths ths meleths, qa oloklhrwqei entos triwn mhnwn. Ejalloy, sto plaisio ayths ths politikhs, oi armodies yphresies exoyn kanei kati to opoio den ginotan pote sto parelqon. Exoyn kataxwristei hdh sto Diadiktyo, olh thn akinhth perioysia twn Tameiwn kai tis prajeis poy ginontai gyrw apo aytes, enw entos toy Aprilioy, problepetai na perasei sto Diadiktyo olh h kinhth perioysia, kaqws kai oi sxetikes prajeis. Ayto shmainei oti h shmerinh kybernhsh, me ena plegma prwtoboyliwn, drasewn, elegxwn, ejasfalizei sto metro toy dynatoy, opws prepei na ginetai, thn eyryqmh, diafanh, apotelesmatikh leitoyrgia twn Tameiwn.

GKOYTZANHS: Dhladh, eseis sthn ellhnikh koinwnia, giati se aythn apologeiste...

ANTWNAROS: Den apologoymai. Ejhgw.

GKOYTZANHS: H kybernhsh apologeitai sthn ellhnikh koinwnia.

ANTWNAROS: Ejhgei. H kybernhsh den einai ypo kathgoria. Kanete laqos.

GKOYTZANHS: Sthn ellhnikh koinwnia sthn opoia apeyqynetai, loipon, qa toys pei oti mporei na xasame merika ekatommyria eyrw, alla eginan ola nomotypa.

ANTWNAROS: Den prokeitai egw apo thn pleyra moy na katalhjw sthn ekdosh porismatos ths ereynas, prin apo thn oloklhrwsh toy elegxoy.

PALAIOLOGOS: Nai, alla kyrie Ekproswpe, edw xaqhkan xrhmata omws. Yparxei ena anamfisbhthto gegonos kai to politiko zhthma einai poios analambanei thn eyqynh gia thn apwleia twn xrhmatwn.

ANTWNAROS: Sas eipa oti perimenoyme thn oloklhrwsh toy elegxoy. Opoy yparxoyn poinikes eyqynes qa apodoqoyn apo th Dikaiosynh.

LEONTITSH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh ayta ta xrhmata anhkoyn stoys ergazomenoys kai oi apwleies ypologizontai gyrw sta 15 ekatommyria eyrw...

ANTWNAROS: Blepete; Den mporeite na symfwnhsete metajy sas sxetika me to ycos twn apwleiwn.

LEONTITSH: Apo 5 ews 15, opws anaferoyn ta dhmosieymata.

ANTWNAROS: Ypo morfhn asteismoy to eipa. Pros Qeoy.

LEONTITSH: H kybernhsh ti skeptetai na kanei gi' ayta ta xrhmata, epeidh akribws yparxei kapoia skech gia apokatastash toy tameioy;

ANTWNAROS: Qa perimenoyme thn oloklhrwsh twn elegxwn poy ginontai ayth th stigmh.

KAKALHS: H plhrhs kalych ths ELAS, dhladh toy Ypoyrgeioy Dhmosias Tajhs kai ths kybernhshs kat' epektash ston enstolo poy pyrobolhse ston aera, den oplizei to xeri twn astynomikwn wste thn epomenh fora na rijoyn sto caxno; H kybernhsh den einai o hqikos aytoyrgos ths klimakwshs ths astynomikhs bias me aprobleptes synepeies;

ANTWNAROS: Jerete, egw den eida, ofeilw na omologhsw kamia astynomikh bia opws thn perigracate. Eida koykoyloforoys oi opoioi epitiqento se astynomikoys. Kata ta loipa, parapempw stis anakoinwseis twn armodiwn organwn ths ellhnikhs Politeias. Qa hqela omws na pw kai to ejhs: Diapistwnw gia mia akomh fora mia poly megalh antifash se ayta ta opoia legontai. Otan den ginontai syllhceis kata th diarkeia epeisodiwn h tetoiwn symbantwn, egkaleitai h astynomia kai se proektash kai h kybernhsh, dioti den briskei, den syllambanei kai den odhgei ekei opoy prepei na odhghsei aytoys oi opoioi ferontai na metexoyn me biaies energeies se ayta ta epeisodia. Otan ginontai syllhceis, orismenoi egkaloyn thn astynomia, askoyn kritikh, giati h astynomia kanei th doyleia ths. Kai odhgei eite se prosagwges eite se syllhceis atoma, ta opoia einai ypopta gia symmetoxh se tetoies energeies. As mhn jexname  to exw pei epaneilhmmena, to janalew gia mia akomh fora  oti h astynomia exei mia sygkekrimenh apostolh sta plaisia ths leitoyrgias toy dhmokratikoy politeymatos. Thn diasfalish ths tajhs kai ths hremias sthn leitoyrgia ths Politeias se ayton ton tomea kai thn prostasia ths zwhs kai ths perioysias twn politwn.

KAKALHS: Tote den blepete. Tote kleinete mallon ta matia sthn astynomikh bia opws kanete shmera den einai h kalyterh eggyhsh oti qa epanalhfqei ayth me megalyterh entash;

ANTWNAROS: Sthn askhsh bias katafeygoyn  opws sas exw pei  kyriws ekeinoi poy den exoyn epixeirhmata sthn koinwnia mas.

KAKALHS: Kai deyteron, mias kai milhsate gia syllhceis. Toys koykoyloforoys poy perpatoysan anenoxlhtoi dipla apo thn poreia giati den toys syllabate;

ANTWNAROS: Dhladh eseis synhgoreite gia akoma perissoteres syllhceis;

KAKALHS: Syllabate aytoys poy den eixan kamia sxesh. Diadhlwtes. Den syllabate koykoyloforoys. Sygnwmh, syllabate kapoion koykoyloforo; Bgalate kamia maska koykoyloforoy;

ANTWNAROS: Antiqeta me sas...

KAKALHS: Mhpws toys xrhsimopoieite toys koykoyloforoys; Giati den to lete eyqews;

ANTWNAROS: Sas parakalw para poly! Aytoi einai aparadektoi isxyrismoi toys opoioys diatypwnete.

KAKALHS: Oi koykoyloforoi phgainan dipla sthn poreia xwris na toys

syllabei kanenas, anenoxlhtoi. Giati den toys syllabate;

ANTWNAROS: Antiqeta me emena, kai antiqeta me tis hremes fwnes oi opoies yposthrizoyn oti osoi syllambanontai ws ypoptoi gia parabatikes symperifores qa prepei na kriqoyn apo th Dikaiosynh, eseis speydete na bgalete symperasmata. Egw den qa sas akoloyqhsw.

SPYRAKH: Qa hqela na rwthsw ean h kybernhsh qewrei dikaiologhmenh thn energeia toy eidikoy froyroy na pyrobolhsei ston aera meta apo thn piesh poy opws fainetai dexqhke apo th diadhlwsh.

ANTWNAROS: Parapempw, opws sas eipa, stis anakoinwseis twn armodiwn yphresiwn kai organwn ths ellhnikhs Politeias.

BLABIANOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, xqes ekproswpos ths DAP dhlwse kai to diabazw akribws: ``Den mporw na diabebaiwsw oti den qa symbei to apeyktaiwn, dhladh na xaqei h anqrwpinh zwh''. Shmera akribws to idio epanelabe se prwinh thleoptikh ekpomph ekproswpos toy Synaspismoy, o k. Dhmhtrhs Stratoylhs. Qa hqela to sxolio sas.

ANTWNAROS: Den gnwrizw tis dhlwseis poy anaferete kai den qa tis sxoliasw. Ekeino to opoio gnwrizw einai oti prepei na kataballontai apo oles tis pleyres -- kai en pash periptwsei h ellhnikh Politeia, h ellhnikh kybernhsh thn opoia egw ekproswpw ayto kanei -- oles oi prospaqeies kai kaqe merimna poy apaiteitai, wste oi diadhlwseis, oi kinhtopoihseis, oi diamartyries oi opoies ginontai, na ejelissontai me tropo wste na prostateyetai h zwh kai h perioysia twn Ellhnwn politwn.

BLAXOS: Sth synexeia ths logikhs toy erwthmatos toy k. synadelfoy o opoios eipe oti dipla sth diadhlwsh yphrxan koykoyloforoi oi opoioi kykloforoysan anenoxlhtoi kai den toys epiane h astynomia, aporw giati den lete ena pragma. Ean qelete na syllhfqoyn oi koykoyloforoi. Ektos kai ean den qelete. Qa mporoysate na kanete ekklhsh apo ayto to bhma stoys foithtes poy metexoyn sthn poreia kai oi opoioi einai ypeyqynoi gia thn prostasia ths poreias, na sas bohqhsoyn na toys syllabete. Emena moy kanei tromerh entypwsh poy den zhtate th bohqeia twn foithtwn gia na apomonwqoyn aytoi oi anqrwpoi oi opoioi kanoyn kako stoys foithtes. Giati den kanete ayth thn ekklhsh ths bohqeias pros toys foithtes na syllhfqoyn aytoi oi koykoyloforoi; Oi 100 h 150 posoi einai. Ektos kai ean sas boleyei politika. Ayto qelw na pw.

ANTWNAROS: Ejakoloyqeite kai kanete kai eseis aytoys toys entelws anoikeioys ypainigmoys oi opoioi den exoyn kamia sxesh me ton tropo me ton opoio politeyetai h shmerinh kybernhsh.

BLAXOS: Egw jerw kyrie Ekproswpe oti yparxoyn 50 koykoyloforoi poy kykloforoyn se kaqe diadhlwsh, spane, kaine kai qetoyn se kindyno th zwh kai foithtwn kai astynomikwn. Kai aytoi einai se kaqe diadhlwsh. Se ti xarakthrizete anoikeio to xarakthrismo moy; Esas den sas sygkinei to oti se kaqe diadhlwsh aytoi oi anqrwpoi kykloforoyn anenoxlhtoi kai pane spiti toys kai epanerxontai thn epomenh ebdomada;

ANTWNAROS: Profanws exete perissoteres plhrofories apo aytes poy diaqetw egw.

BLAXOS: Oxi, exw matia kyrie Ekproswpe kai aplh logikh.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, to peristatiko me ton eidiko froyro poy ebgale to peristrofo egine ejw apo to Ypoyrgeio Aigaioy poy brisketai sthn odo Filellhnwn. Einai konta stoys xwroys stoys opoioys kineito h xqesinh poreia. To jeroyme oloi apo thn peira mas kai to jerei kai h astynomia oti aytoi oi xwroi apoteloyn stoxoys. To peristatiko egine giati den htan kala fylassomenos me kapoioys eidikoys froyroys kai o anqrwpos ti na ekane, ebgale to peristrofo dikaiologhmena h adikaiologhta. Den yparxei mia eyqynh giati eixe meinei afylaktos aytos o stoxos;

ANTWNAROS: Den ypeiserxomai sta epixeirhsiaka sxedia ths ellhnikhs astynomias.

GKOYTZANHS: Oxi, alla apo kapoy prepei na askhqei elegxos sthn ellhnikh astynomia. Den mporei...

ANTWNAROS: Parapempw stis anakoinwseis ths ellhnikhs astynomias.

MAYRIDHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, sthn prohgoymenh apanthsh poy dwsate emfanisthkate na exete ena dilhmma. Apo th mia pleyra syllambanete toys ypoptoys, den jerw poioys syllambanete...

ANTWNAROS: Egw diatypwsa mia aporia. Den exw kanena dilhmma apolytws, k. Mayridh.

MAYRIDHS: Oxi, na sas pw egw ti kategraca.

ANTWNAROS: To ti katagracate den einai kat' anagkh ayto to opoio eipa.

MAYRIDHS: Oti orismenoi sas egkaloyn sthn periptwsh poy ginontai prosagwges kai pali sas egkaloyn otan den ginontai prosagwges. Ara, briskeste se ena adiejodo...

ANTWNAROS: Den briskomai se kanena adiejodo.

MAYRIDHS: ...oti opws kai na kanete, eite ean syllabete, eite ean den syllabete, pali qa exete...

ANTWNAROS: H astynomia k. Mayridh, gia na qesoyme ta pragmata para poly apla...

MAYRIDHS: Egw den exw qesei to erwthma moy.

ANTWNAROS: Diatypwste loipon eseis thn erwthsh sas gia na topoqethqw.

MAYRIDHS: Nomizw oti h olh katastash krinetai ek toy apotelesmatos eite etsi eite alliws. Edw exoyme mia katastash h opoia epanalambanetai diarkws. Se kamia xwra toy kosmoy kai malista dhmokratikh den mporei na symbainei ayto to pragma poy symbainei edw kai posoys mhnes sthn Aqhna. Den prepei na breqei mia lysh me ton opoiodhpote tropo; Den sas anhsyxei ayto; Yparxoyn aytoptes martyres oi opoioi eidan na bgainoyn apo toys staqmoys toy metro, paidia ta opoia eixan se sakoyles skoypidiwn steiliaria. Oi kameres ta katagrafoyn ayta. Den mporei h astynomia na toys piasei aytoys toys 5, 10, 20, posoi einai kai na stamathsei ayto to pragma poy symbainei kaqe fora sthn Aqhna;

ANTWNAROS: Sas eipa oti den prokeitai na ypeiselqw ston epixeirhsiako sxediasmo kai ston tropo leitoyrgias ths Ellhnikhs Astynomias.

GARGALAKOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, egw den qa sas rwthsw epixeirhsiako qema. Alla, to gegonos oti eixame ena froyro na pyrobolei estw ston aera, ayto shmainei oti h katastash exei ektraxynqei pleon kai pisteyw kaqhkon kaqe kybernhshs, kai ths dikias sas, einai na dei pws qa apoklimakwqei ayth h entash. Sas problhmatizei pws qa apoklimakwqei h entash kai ti qa prajete pros ayth thn kateyqynsh;

ANTWNAROS: Mikres meiochfies oi opoies prospaqoyn na dhmioyrghsoyn entypwseis kata kairoys, me thn askhsh bias, dioti den exoyn kanena allo epixeirhma, apomonwnontai sthn koinwnia.

ARMENHS: To programma toy PASOK exei kati qetiko h einai ola straba kai anapoda;

ANTWNAROS: O k. Papandreoy kai to PASOK kanoyn me thn xqesinh mprosoyra genikologwn yposxesewn ayto to opoio, fainetai, ton teleytaio kairo na exei ginei h monimh apasxolhsh toys: Yposxontai polla se polloys kai den dinoyn th basikh apanthsh poy endiaferei -- eimai bebaios -- oloys toys Ellhnes polites. Poy qa broyn ta xrhmata gia na kanoyn prajh osa yposxontai toso apospasmatika se oloys. Einai fysiko na mh lene lejh, giati profanws otan erqoyn sthn ejoysia, an kai me ayta poy lene kai me ayta poy yposxontai ayto den fainetai kaqoloy piqanon, skeftontai na epibaloyn ychloys foroys kai na forologhsoyn agria tis Ellhnides kai toys Ellhnes. To parelqon toy PASOK einai ena parelqon ychlwn forwn kai agrias forologias. Einai ena parelqon ychlwn xrewn kai terastiwn elleimmatwn. Einai ena parelqon apotyxhmenhs diaxeirishs twn dhmosiwn oikonomikwn kai malista me tropo poy eblacan oloys toys Ellhnes polites.

GARGALAKOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, rwtate poy qa brei ta xrhmata to PASOK. Nomizw oti apo kei poy brhkate ki eseis ta 10 dis eyrw me thn peristolh ths spatalhs sto dhmosio. Kati tetoio den eixate pei proeklogika; Oti qa breite 10 dis eyrw;

ANTWNAROS: Asfalws qa exete diapistwsei kai eseis oti exoyn peristalei oi dapanes sto Dhmosio.

GARGALAKOS: Etsi akribws qa ta brei kai to PASOK. Opws ta brhkate eseis.

ANTWNAROS: Gnwrizete poso prepei na ayjhsei th forologia to PASOK gia na plhrwsei osa yposxetai; Rwthste toys eidikoys na sas poyn.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Se ti poso ypologizete eseis oti mporei na ylopoihqei ayto to programma toy PASOK;

ANTWNAROS: Den nomizw oti to exoyn ypologisei oyte oi idioi giati den exoyn proqesh na to efarmosoyn, efoson jeroyn oti den prokeitai na eklegoyn.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, xqes o Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos sthn prwth toy apanthsh ston k. Papandreoy, eirwneythke tis dhlwseis toy k. Papandreoy gia thn antimetwpish toy AIDS. Nomizete oti to AIDS kai h antimetwpish toy einai ena qema to opoio shkwnei eirwneia;

ANTWNAROS: Den eirwneythke to AIDS o k. Roysopoylos. Eirwneythke ayto poy eipe o k. Papandreoy oti ``ws sosialistes kai dhmokrates mporoyme na ejaleicoyme pandhmies opws to AIDS''.

GKOYTZANHS: Akribws ayto eipa ki egw. Eirwneythke th dhlwsh toy Papandreoy gia to AIDS.

ANTWNAROS: Thn epanalambanw ki egw shmera. O k. Roysopoylos anaferqhke sth dhlwsh toy k. Papandreoy gia thn proqesh ejaleichs ths pandhmias toy AIDS.

GKOYTZANHS: Kanontas, ean qelete, ton dikhgoro toy diaboloy, qa sas pw oti pragmatika einai se shmantiko baqmo ideologikopolitiko zhthma h antimetwpish toy AIDS.

ANTWNAROS: Exoyme diaforetikh proseggish.

GKOYTZANHS: Mporw na sas ferw ena paradeigma: Oti h xrhsh h mh xrhsh profylaktikwn, poy syndeete an to qelete me ton kaqolikismo, einai ena zhthma ideologikopolitiko kai oxi iatriko. Epishs, h istoria exei apofanqei pws oi epidhmies antimetwpizontan prolhptika kai htan ideologikopolitiko zhthma kai oxi iatriko.

ANTWNAROS: Menw sth dhlwsh toy k. Roysopoyloy.

PALAIOLOGOS: Anejarthta apo th dhlwsh sas apo poy qa breqoyn ta xrhmata, den jerw an exete thn idia aisqhsh me mena. Yparxoyn dyo toylaxiston protaseis oi opoies mporei na einai endiaferoyses kai gia thn kybernhsh. To ena einai h enisxysh ths basikhs syntajhs sta 950 eyrw gia kaqe zeygari h sta 550 eyrw gia kaqe memonwmeno kai to allo h opoia einai prwtotyph toylaxiston h protash, einai gia thn yposthrijh ths oikogeneias me 2000 eyrw gia kaqe paidi poy gennietai. Treis se sxesh kai me thn kataqesh 1000 eyrw gia to kaqe paidi. Aytes oi protaseis den krinontai toylaxiston endiaferoyses apo thn pleyra ths kybernhshs; Giati kai h idia eixe yposxeqei sto parelqon thn enisxysh ths triteknhs oikogeneias, thn ayjhsh ths syntajhs.

ANTWNAROS: Exei ginei prajh me sygkekrimena metra kai prwtoboylies.

PALAIOLOGOS: Gia thn allh tetraetia qa ginoyn prajh exei pei o k. Alogoskoyfhs.

ANTWNAROS: Oxi, kanete laqos. Exei ginei prajh se poly megalo baqmo. Exoyn doqei sygkekrimenes enisxyseis, sygkekrimena kinhtra. Qa hqela na sas ypenqymisw oti h shmerinh kybernhsh osa exei pei gia to qema toy EKAS kai allwn enisxysewn ta kanei prajh bhma  bhma sto xroniko ekeino orizonta poy eixe qesei ejarxhs. Kaqws mpainoyme ston teleytaio xrono ths tetraetoys diakybernhshs apo th Nea Dhmokratia, apodeiknyetai gia mia akomh fora oti me xrhmata ta opoia den einai daneika, einai xrhmata ta opoia proerxontai apo thn kalh diaxeirish kai to noikokyrema twn dhmosiwn oikonomikwn, enisxyetai to eisodhma twn Ellhnwn politwn. Ayta poy leei o k. Papandreoy einai proxeires proeklogikes epaggelies poy den nomizw oti kanenas Ellhnas poliths tis pairnei sta sobara.

KAKALHS: O sxoliasmos poy egine kai xqes apo ton Kybernhtiko Ekproswpo kai apo esas shmera kai h kritikh poy askhqhke sto programma toy PASOK den eixe stoxo na peisei oti to PASOK einai kati diaforetiko, exei mia allh politikh apo esas, mia enallaktikh lysh apo thn politikh poy efarmozei h kybernhsh. Dhladh ektimate oti yparxei mia programmatikh sygklish kai taytish qa elega anamesa sta dyo kommata;

ANTWNAROS: H Nea Dhmokratia exei sygkekrimenh politikh thn opoia kai efarmozei sthn prajh. To PASOK ayto poy paroysiase mono ws programma den mporei na xarakthristei. Kai ekei poy prospaqei na paroysiasei orismenes programmatikes diakhryjeis, apodeiknyetai oti einai kakos antigrafeas ths politikhs ths Neas Dhmokratias.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, ayta ta opoia anefere prohgoymenws o synadelfos Palaiologos gia ta 2000 eyrw se kaqe paidi, den einai bebaiws antigrafh apo to diko sas programma. Mporw epishs na sas pw oti egw plhrwnw kaqe mhna 700 eyrw gia idiwtikoys paidikoys staqmoys epeidh sthn perioxh moy, sto Palaio Falhro, den yparxoyn dhmosioi paidikoi staqmoi. Blepete tipote kako sthn protash toy k. Papandreoy na ayjhqoyn oi paidikoi staqmoi etsi wste na kalyptoyn tis anagkes;

ANTWNAROS: H Nea Dhmokratia efarmozei kai sto qema ths sthrijhs ths oikogeneias sygkekrimena metra, sygkekrimenh politikh h opoia ejasfalizei se baqos xronoy thn enisxysh ths oikogeneias kai twn melwn ths. H sthrijh ths ellhnikhs oikogeneias kai twn melwn poy apartizoyn kaqe oikogeneia, einai sthrijh olhs ths koinwnias. O k. Papandreoy ejakoloyqei na mhn leei apo poy qa brei ta lefta kai se ti baqos xronoy qa kanei prajh ayta ta opoia yposxetai. Kai sta liga shmeia opoy leei pote qa pragmatopoihsei ayta ta opoia epaggelletai etsi nefelwdws, diabaste na deite, paei poly makria sto xrono. Allwste, to kostos twn ejaggeliwn apo toys prwtoys ypologismoys jeperna ta esoda apo thn amesh forologia. Jeperna ta 10 disekatommyria eyrw. Ayto shmainei se apla ellhnika oti prepei na diplasiastei h amesh forologia. Ayta einai stoixeia poy proerxontai apo to Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias kai den epidexontai kamia amfisbhthsh.

GKOYTZANHS: Epeidh eipate oti gia ta metra sthrijhs ths ellhnikhs oikogeneias, mporw na sas pw oti sthn trietia ths Neas Dhmokratias, en tw metajy, ta dika moy ta paidia qa fygoyn apo toys paidikoys staqmoys qa pane sto Gymnasio kai meta sto Lykeio kai akoma qa ta perimenoyme.

ANTWNAROS: Profanws omws ta dika sas paidia einai arketa megala kai synepws ena poly mikro meros...

GKOYTZANHS: Einai triwn kai pente etwn, dhladh oso einai h diakybernhsh ths Neas Dhmokratias. Nai, lew oti qa fygoyn apo to stadio twn paidikwn staqmwn poy ta plhrwnoyme, qa pane sto Dhmotiko kai meta sto Gymnasio kai sto Lykeio.

ANTWNAROS: Xairomai poly poy proejofleite nikh ths Neas Dhmokratias stis epomenes ekloges.

BLAXOS: Na kanw thn prwth erwthsh: Afoy lysate thn astynomeysh sthn Aqhna kai sthn Ellada, stelnete astynomikoys Ellhnes sto Afganistan; Ejhnta;

ANTWNAROS: Den exw tetoies plhrofories.

BLAXOS: Malista. Deyteron: Symfwnei h kybernhsh me thn apofash toy YPEXWDE na onomasei ton metropontika poy qa paei sto Ellhniko ``Swthrhs Ninhs''; Einai toso megalh proswpikothta o k. Swthrhs Ninhs gia na ginei...

ANTWNAROS: Den exw ypoch moy to sygkekrimeno qema. Apeyqynqeite sto armodio Ypoyrgeio.

GKOYTZANHS: Epeidh eimaste sto programma toy PASOK, blepete kati kako sthn protash toy PASOK na ayjhqoyn oi dapanes gia thn Paideia sto 5% toy proypologismoy;

ANTWNAROS: To PASOK den ekane tipote tetoio otan briskotan, gia 20 peripoy xronia, sthn ejoysia. O shmerinos Proedros toy PASOK, se dyo diaforetikes periodoys diakybernhshs ths xwras apo to PASOK, htan Ypoyrgos Paideias. Kai den qymamai na ayjhse shmantika ta kondylia. Antiqetws, opws sas eipa -- kai qa sas dwsw amesws meta thn enhmerwsh gia mia akomh fora ta stoixeia -- sta tria teleytaia xronia diakybernhshs toy PASOK, ta posa poy diatiqentan se pososto toy AEP gia thn Paideia, meiwnontan synexws. Kai ayjhqhkan jana epi Neas Dhmokratias. Oi ariqmoi aytoi einai adiaceysta stoixeia ta opoia kaneis den mporei na amfisbhthsei. Epeidh de, meta thn teleytaia enhmerwsh thn opoia ekana, kapoioi qelhsan na amfisbhthsoyn ayto to opoio eixa pei, dhladh oti me 1,3% epi toy AEP h Ellada -- kai ennow th dhmosia syneisfora -- exei to megalytero pososto xrhmatodothshs ths Anwtaths Paideias apo opoiadhpote allh xwra ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs kai breqhkan kai eipan...

KAKALHS: Toy OOSA eixate pei.

ANTWNAROS: Einai meleth toy OOSA kai afora kai tis xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs. Egw anaferqhka stis xwres ths Eyrwpaokhs Enwshs.

KAKALHS: Ta stoixeia ths Eurostat deixnoyn oti eimaste teleytaioi stis dapanes gia thn Paideia.

ANTWNAROS: Sto xwro ths Anwtaths Paideias eimaste, se pososto epi toy AEP, prwtoi. Kai dyo alles xwres poy fainontai na exoyn megalytero pososto, symperilambanoyn ta kondylia gia thn ereyna kai tis xorhgies ta opoia den symperilambanontai sth statistikh gia thn Ellada.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mia teleytaia erwthsh: Apo tis apanthseis sas diakrinw oti den diafwneite me thn oysia twn protasewn toy k. Papandreoy. Amfisbhteite kata poso aytes einai efarmosimes. H erwthsh einai oti apo xqes apanthsate me taxythta kai sfodrothta sto programma toy PASOK. Giati; Sas fobizei toso poly;

ANTWNAROS: To programma toy PASOK, opws sas eipa, den exei th morfh programmatos. Einai diafores idees errimmenes apo diafores pleyres kai me prospaqeia na paroysiastei ena programma. Exw thn aisqhsh oti apotygxanei h prospaqeia. Alla sas eipa kai to epanalambanw: Profanws to PASOK exei symbibastei me th bebaiothta oti den prokeitai na kerdisei tis epomenes ekloges, opote mporei na isxyrizetai kai na yposxetai oti qelei.

Sas eyxaristw

Kalo Sabbatokyriako

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