Greek Government Press Briefing, 04-11-22

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 22 Noembrioy 2004

TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO EPIKRATEIAS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

QEODWRO ROYSOPOYLO

Xairete kai kalh ebdomada.

O Prwqypoyrgos, shmera stis 18:00, qa milhsei sthn panhgyrikh ekdhlwsh toy 32oy Synedrioy ths ADEDY, sto jenodoxeio Megalh Bretania.

Ayrio, stis 9:00 to prwi, qa synedriasei h Kybernhtikh Epitroph, me qema ton anaptyjiako nomo.

Qa hqela na kanw mia dhlwsh gia to qema poy dhmioyrghqhke me ton Eyrwboyleyth ths N.D. k. Giwrgo Dhmhtrakopoylo:

``Oi apoceis toy k. Dhmhtrakopoyloy einai kaqara proswpikes kai den synadoyn me thn politikh ths kybernhshs, h opoia ektos twn allwn chfisthke gia na pei olh thn alhqeia stoys Ellhnes, oson afora sthn oikonomikh katastash ths xwras.

H kybernhsh apodokimazei aytes tis dhlwseis. H kybernhsh afoy efere eis peras to dyskolo ergo ths apografhs, se synergasia me tis armodies Koinotikes Arxes, qa synexisei to akomh pio dyskolo ergo ths apokatastashs twn problhmatwn poy epeswreyse sthn oikonomia h politikh toy PASOK.

H apografh htan epibeblhmenh gia logoys oysias. Prwton, gia na gnwrizoyn oi Ellhnes thn pragmatikh katastash ths oikonomias, dioti mono ean thn gnwrizeis mporeis na dwseis lyseis. Kai deyteron, dioti h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh apo to 2002 eixe amfisbhthsei ta stoixeia poy edine h prohgoymenh kybernhsh''.

Kleinontas ayth th dhlwsh qa hqela na shmeiwsw thn anagnwrish toy Symboylioy ECOFIN pros tis ellhnikes arxes gia th synergasia sthn katagrafh twn pragmatikwn dhmosionomikwn stoixeiwn. Epishs, kai to gegonos oti oi ypoyrgoi Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn ths E.E. eneqarrynan tis ellhnikes arxes sthn politikh poy akoloyqei h xwra mas gia thn apokatastash twn oikonomikwn problhmatwn. Ayta exei na pei h kybernhsh gia thn ypoqesh. Qa perioristw mono se ayta.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

SOYGLERHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, yparxei qema diagrafhs toy k. Dhmhtrakopoyloy; Plhrofories anaferoyn oti, toso o k. Ebert , oso kai o k. Soyflias qa zhthsoyn th diagrafh toy apo ton Proedro toy kommatos k. Karamanlh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exw kapoies plhrofories san aytes poy anaferete. Periorizomai sta osa eipa prohgoymenws.

BLAXOS: Diabazontas th dhlwsh poy kanate gia ton k. Dhmhtrakopoylo, nomizw oti allazete to nohma twn dhlwsewn. O k. Dhmhtrakopoylos den kanei enstash gia thn apografh. O k. Dhmhtrakopoylos -kai ap` o,ti gnwrizw kai alloi- exoyn enstaseis gia ton tropo poy egine h apografh. Se ayto den apantate.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Menw sthn prohgoymenh dhlwsh.

BLAXOS: Nai, alla, kyrie Ekproswpe, me sygxwreite to gegonos omws oti kanete mia dhlwsh se dhlwsh poy den isxyei toy k. Dhmhtrakopoyloy akyrwnei oysiastika thn prohgoymenh dhlwsh sas. O k. Dhmhtrakopoylos den leei@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Akoyw ta sxolia kai tis kriseis sas. Isxyei o,ti eipa.

BLAXOS: Ma, eseis kanete dhlwsh gia thn arnhsh toy k. Dhmhtrakopoyloy gia thn apografh. O k. Dhmhtrakopoylos den arneitai thn apografh, leei oti den egine swsta h apografh. Se ayto den exete na apanthsete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw hdh apanthsei.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kata poso exei ikanopoihqei to aisqhma ths dysareskeias toy k. Alogoskoyfh, toy armodioy ypoyrgoy Oikonomias, apo toys proswpikoys xarakthrismoys toy k. Dhmhtrakopoyloy me th dhlwsh apodokimasias poy kanate molis twra; Qelw na pw: Den yparxei proswpikh dysareskeia toy k. Alogoskoyfh kai se poio baqmo kalyptetai apo ayth th merikh dhlwsh apodokimasias;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se ayth thn ypoqesh, proswpikes einai monon oi apoceis toy k. Dhmhtrakopoyloy. Ola ta alla einai kybernhtikh politikh.

XIWTHS: Den mas exete apanthsei sto ejhs: Qa yparjoyn opoiasdhpote morfhs kyrwseis enantion toy boyleyth, tis apoceis toy opoioy apodokimazei h kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qewreite ligh thn apodokimasia kai malista dhmosia apo thn kybernhsh;

XIWTHS: Kaqoloy. Alla, mporei na mhn meinete ekei. Erwtw: Qa meinete ekei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Menoyme ekei.

XONDROS: Kai perimenete prwtoboylia apo ton k. Dhmhtrakopoylo;

MPOTSARAKOS: Me to na mhn pairnete kapoia metra kata toy k. Dhmhtrakopoyloy einai san na afhnete akalypto ton ypoyrgo Oikonomias. Giati apo edw kai pera einai ekteqeimenos sta pyra toy opoioydhpote poy qelei na anaferqei kritika sthn politikh poy akoloyqei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prepei na diabasete th dhlwsh poy ekana prin apo ligo.

MPOTSARAKOS: Me to na mhn pairnete metra, den ton afhnete akalypto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Janadiabasete th dhlwsh moy.

KAKALHS: Prwton, anamenei h kybernhsh prosfygh ths Commission sto Eyrwdikasthrio gia paroysiash parapoihmenwn stoixeiwn; Kai deyteron, ean perimenete prosqeta metra litothtas ton Ianoyario apo thn Commission, prokeimenoy na katebei to elleimma katw apo to 3%;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kai stis dyo erwthseis, h apanthsh einai oxi. Qelw na sas qymisw oti apo to perasmeno kalokairi kapoioi kindynologoysan oti h kybernhsh qa parei sklhra metra litothtas. Tetoioy eidoys metra oydepote elhfqhsan. H kybernhsh proxwrhse se mia allh politikh, thn politikh ths hpias prosarmoghs. Mia politikh meiwshs twn elleimmatwn toy Dhmosioy kai noikokyrematos twn dhmosionomikwn. Aythn thn politikh qa akoloyqhsoyme, wste na jeperasoyme ta problhmata poy epeswreyse h politikh toy PASOK.

XONDROS: Peran ths apografhs, o k. Dhmhtrakopoylos leei oti fobatai gia to endexomeno epithrhshs ths ellhnikhs oikonomias apo ereyna poy exei kanei kai apo plhrofories poy exei sygkentrwsei. Einai deka xronia Eyrwboyleyths, dietelese Antiproedros toy Eyrwpaikoy Koinoboylioy. H kybernhsh den anarwtietai ti plhrofories einai aytes poy leei oti exei, ti ereyna ekane, poia stoixeia exei, gia na dei ean telika pragmati isxyoyn; Kai ean ontws yparxei to endexomeno na mpei h ellhnikh oikonomia ypo epithrhsh kai na tinaxqei ston aera ayto to programma hpias prosarmoghs poy kanete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exw tipota perissotero gia thn ypoqesh.

TSIODRAS: Qa hqela na rwthsw, ean epikoinwnhse kapoios apo thn kybernhsh me ton k. Dhmhtrakopoylo kai na toy metaferei th dysareskeia h thn apodokimasia twn apocewn toy; Kai ean perioristhke mono sthn apodokimasia twn apocewn h ean ekane kai kapoies systaseis gia th mellontikh symperifora toy Eyrwboyleyth ths N.D.;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete hdh oti exei milhsei o Genikos Grammateas ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas ths N.D. k. Stayroy.

PALAIOLOGOS: O k. Dhmhtrakopoylos synexizei na ekproswpei th N.D. sto Eyrwkoinoboylio; Paramenei panta energo stelexos ths N.D. kai aphxei tis apoceis ths kybernhshs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Giati moy qetete ayth thn erwthsh;

PALAIOLOGOS: Lew, ean synexizei na paramenei meta apo aytes tis dhlwseis toy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prokyptei kati diaforetiko apo th dhlwsh moy;

PALAIOLOGOS: Rwtw na maqw, ean paramenei akoma energo stelexos ths N.D.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas parakalw na diabasete th dhlwsh moy.

PALAIOLOGOS: Nai, alla den apantate se ayto, omws. Ean paramenei stelexos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H dhlwsh moy apanta se ola.

SIDERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, kaqe fora poy enas PASOKos antitiqeto sthn politikh twn kybernhsewn toy PASOK, toy katalogizate gennaiothta. Qa legate kati tetoio kai gia ton k. Dhmhtrakopoylo o opoios eixe to qarros na pei tis apoceis toy, estw kai an stenoxwrhse thn kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qymaste na eipa pote kati tetoio;

SIDERHS: Ma, den einai proswpika. Sta ``paraqyra'' ebgainan ola ta stelexh ths Neas Dhmokratias kai epidacileyan times gennaiothtas se oloys toys PASOKoys poy diaforopoioyntan apo thn politikh Shmith.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den nomizw oti einai etsi. Yp` aythn thn ennoia, qa mporoyse na anarwthqei kaneis kai ti akribws symbainei sto PASOK kaqe fora poy enas boyleyths ths N.D. sthrizei thn politikh ths Neas Dhmokratias, ton qewrei anajiopisto kai otan askhsei kritikh sthn politikh ayth, ton qewrei ajiopisto.

SIDERHS: O Xristodoylos, otan esteile thn epistolh gia to qema twn Skopiwn, eixe epikoinwnhsei me thn kybernhsh; Thn eixe enhmerwsei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: An ennoeite thn epistolh toy Arxiepiskopoy Xristodoyloy, oxi, den yphrxe kapoia epikoinwnia.

SIDERHS: Eseis pws to eidate ayto; Mporei o Arxiepiskopos na kanei ejwterikh politikh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den sxoliazw tis dhlwseis toy Arxiepiskopoy kai to gnwrizete.

SIDERHS: Ma, edw einai qema ejwterikhs politikhs poy kanei. Sas ypokatesthse, dhladh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: @Allh erwthsh.

PAPADOPOYLOS: O k. Papandreoy xqes dhlwse oti pote allote kybernhsh den ekane tosa polla laqh se toso mikro xroniko diasthma. Pws sxoliazete tis dhlwseis toy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Toy epistrefw to epixeirhma: Pote allote antipoliteysh den exei kanei tosa polla laqh, se toso mikro diasthma.

XIWTHS: Sthn istoselida toy PASOK, shmera, diabazw ena sxolio poy kalei thn kybernhsh na kataqesei thn protash ths, entos eylogoy xronikoy diasthmatos, gia thn ypochfiothta ths gia ton Proedro ths Dhmokratias, tonizontas malista oti to PASOK diathrei to dikaiwma toy na topoqethqei, efoson h kybernhsh xrhsimopoihsei to xrono pros ejyphrethsh mikrokommatikwn wfelhmatwn. H kybernhsh exei kapoio sxolio;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den sxoliazw anwnyma sxolia poy grafontai sthn istoselida toy PASOK. Fantazomai oti o k. Papandreoy mporei na dhlwsei dhmosiws poia einai h politikh toy PASOK. Kalo qa htan na gnwrizoyme ean symfwnei me ta anwnyma sxolia poy grafontai sthn istoselida toy kommatos toy.

XIWTHS: Egw ypoqetw oti symfwnei kai par` ola ayta, zhtw to sxolio sas.

ROYSOPOYLOS: As kanei prwta dhmosia dhlwsh o idios kai tote qa apanthsw.

BLAXOS: Einai logiko, pantws, na lete ston k. Papandreoy oti pote allote antipoliteysh den exei kanei tosa polla laqh, osa twra to PASOK, giati antipoliteysh tosa xronia htan h Nea Dhmokratia. Ara, an legate oti yphrxe allh antipoliteysh poy ekane tosa laqh, htan san na apajiwnate to rolo ths N.D. tosa xronia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Blepw oti to katalabate mia xara.

XONDROS: O Prwqypoyrgos exei arxisei na diafhmizei to ergo twn kybernhsewn toy PASOK; Dioti sthn Hpeiro eipe gia to ergo toy Rioy-Antirrioy, thn Egnatia Odo poy bgazei thn jexasmenh perifereia apo thn apomonwsh. Ta sygkekrimena erga eginan epi kybernhsewn toy PASOK kai malista sto ergo toy Rioy-Antirrioy, o Prwqypoyrgos den paresth sta egkainia toy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epeidh sxoliasate ypotimhtika tis dhlwseis toy Prwqypoyrgoy, qa hqela na parakalesw na diabasete prosektika ti exei pei kai en synexeia na tis sxoliasete.

XONDROS: Den yphrje ypotimhsh. Htan mia erwthsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Htan safhs h ypotimhsh. Qa moy epitrecete na antilambanomai poly kala to an ypotima kapoios ton Prwqypoyrgo, me ton tropo me ton opoio mila h oxi. Den htan erwthsh@

XONDROS: Yphrje mia erwthsh, pantws.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa parakalesw, loipon, erwthseis poy einai ypotimhtikes se proswpa, na mhn apeyqynontai se ayto to xwro. Ws dhmosiografoi mporeite na kanete eleyqera ta sxolia sas stis efhmerides, stis thleoraseis h sta radiofwna.

XONDROS: Den ypotimhsa kanenan.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Parakalw para poly, oi erwthseis poy aforoyn ston Prwqypoyrgo h se alla qesmika proswpa, eite einai o Proedros ths Dhmokratias, eite o arxhgos ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs, na mhn emperiexoyn stoixeia ypotimhshs.

XONDROS: Den emperieixe tipota, antiqetws den yphrje apanthsh.

PALAIOLOGOS: Anhsyxei h kybernhsh apo to endexomeno na teqei h ellhnikh oikonomia ypo epithrhsh kai ypo epitropeia apo thn E.E., meta thn apografh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw hdh apanthsei sto erwthma polles fores. Epanalambanw: Oxi, den anhsyxei.

MPOTSARAKOS: Se oti afora thn apografh milhsate. Gia th meqodologia omws den mas eipate kyrie Ekproswpe. Htan apolytws swsth; Dhladh mporeite na peite shmera, koitwntas pros ta pisw, oti den egine to paramikro laqos sth meqodologia poy akoloyqhqhke apo ton k. Alogoskoyfh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Otan kapoios edeixne to dasos kapoios allos koitage to dentro, opws leei h laikh rhsh. H oikonomia exei terastia problhmata ejaitias ths politikhs poy akoloyqhse to PASOK ta prohgoymena xronia. To PASOK apekryce apo toys Ellhnes polites kai thn E.E. ta pragmatika stoixeia ths oikonomias. Edine plasmatika stoixeia ta opoia h N.D. ws antipoliteysh -opws gnwrizete kai eseis oi dhmosiografoi kai olos o ellhnikos laos- kathggeile epaneilhmmena. Akoygate ton k. Shmith kai ton k. Papandreoy na lene oti den yparxoyn plasmatika stoixeia. To idio elege kai o k. Xristodoylakhs.

Sas kalw loipon na diabasete ti grafoyn ta dieqnh MME. toys teleytaioys mhnes gia thn oikonomikh politikh Shmith-Xristodoylakh, gia thn oikonomikh politikh toy PASOK. H apografh, opws eipa prohgoymenws, htan aparaithth gia logoys oysias: Prwton, giati an den gnwrizeis ti symbainei mesa sto spiti soy den mporeis na to diorqwseis kai deyteron giati hdh h idia h E.E., apo to 2002 - epi kybernhsewn PASOK dhladh - gnwrize poly kala ti symbainei sthn Ellada kai eixe arxisei tis epishmanseis me epishmes epistoles kai ekqeseis tis opoies h kybernhsh PASOK ekane pws den katalabaine. Ayto loipon einai to problhma, ayto einai to ``dasos''. To memonwmeno ``dentro'' sto opoio mporei na anaferetai shmera o opoiosdhpote, kai kyriws to PASOK, den apodeiknyei tipota. Prospaqei parelkystika na diwjei apo thn epikairothta to qema.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, nomizw oti to qema dhmioyrghqhke apo th metafora twn kainoyriwn statistikwn meqodwn poy epikrathsan, ontws, se epipedo E.E. gia to diasthma prin apo to 2000. Kai ekei htan poy teqhke en amfibolw gia to an h Ellada mphke sthn ONE@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Pote egine ayto;

GKOYTZANHS: Kata th diarkeia olhs ayths ths syzhthshs gia th dhmosionomikh apografh, egine syzhthsh stis Bryjeles@

ROYSOPOYLOS: To 2004;

GKOYTZANHS: Nai. Ekei einai to qema xeirismoy, kyrie Ekproswpe, gia ton k. Alogoskoyfh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Akomh kai an dextw ayto to opoio lete, mporei kapoios na apanthsei peistika giati apo to 2002 h Commission eixe arxisei na epishmainei ta problhmata sthn oikonomikh politikh kai sthn katagrafh twn stoixeiwn;

GKOYTZANHS: Profanws miloyme gia diaforetikes periodoys.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Akomh kai an dextw ayto to opoio moy lete -poy den einai etsi- giati me toys idioys logistikoys kanones poy xrhsimopoioyse h prohgoymenh kybernhsh egine h apografh. Alla akoma kai an to dexomoyna ayto, mporei kaneis na pei giati h E.E. epeshmaine problhmata; Den yphrxan kai ta epeshmaine epeidh akoyge th ND na leei oti exoyme plasmatika stoixeia; Oxi bebaia. Ta eixan katalabei kai oi eyrwpaioi etairoi mas.

BLAXOS: Qa parw thn prohgoymenh apanthsh sas gia th meqodologia: Ean diabazw prosektika thn apanthsh sas gia plasmatika stoixeia, na symperanw oti amfisbhteite thn entajh ths Ellados sthn ONE;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, na mhn to symperanete.

TSIODRAS: O k. Dhmas xqes, o epitropos ths Elladas sthn E.E. -alla kai o k. Alogoskoyfhs sto ECOFIN- eipe oti h metrhsh to 1999 egine me th meqodo h opoia isxye tote. Einai xqesinh dhlwsh toy k. Dhma. Ara loipon poio einai to problhma, den katalabainw giati prin apo to 2000.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oyte egw katalabainw poia einai h erwthsh sas.

TSIODRAS: Milate gia plasmatika stoixeia ta opoia dinontan prin apo to 2000.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Milhsa gia to 2002. To ``prin to 2000'' akoysthke apo synadelfo sas, oxi apo mena.

TSIODRAS: Ara prin apo to 2000 einai kalws.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas eipa kai pali oti ayto to opoio elegxqhke htan h apografh ths oikonomikhs katastashs poy parelabe h kybernhsh ths ND.

TSIODRAS: Nai, egw lew: Prin apo to 2000 kalws;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apantwntas prohgoymenws ston synadelfo sas poy epikalesthke kapoia logistika stoixeia kai logistikoys kanones, eipa oti den einai oi logistikoi kanones poy allajan kai deixnoyn to problhma. Einai oti to problhma yphrxe kai epishmanqhke apo to 2002. Gia thn periodo prin to 2000 kai thn entajh sthn ONE exw apanthsei polles fores.

POYLIDOY: Afoy htan plasmatika ta stoixeia, tote giati ektelesate ton proypologismo toy 2004 kai den ton anaqewrhsate; Afoy ginate kybernhsh apo to Marth htan treis mhnes hdh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H apografh den ginetai me magiko tropo. H apografh krathse dihrkese merikoys mhnes, me th synergasia twn eyrwpaikwn arxwn. Oloklhrwqhke kai anakoinwqhke, prin apo enamisi mhna peripoy, to oristiko apotelesma ths apografhs. Ara loipon h kybernhsh ayth ofeile na ektelesei ton proypologismo toy 2004. Kai ofeile bebaiws na anakoinwsei olh thn alhqeia. Kai ofeile, en synexeia, na labei ypoch ths ayth thn alhqeia gia ton epomeno proypologismo.

XONDROS: Syzhtame epi twn problhmatwn poy dhmioyrghse h apografh. Ta ofelh poia einai;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Syzhtame epi twn problhmatwn poy dhmioyrghse h oikonomikh politikh toy PASOK kai epi twn problhmatwn poy dhmioyrghse h apokrych stoixeiwn pros thn E.E. Proxwrame sthn apokatastash toys me lyseis poy exei dwsei h kybernhsh me to neo proypologismo, me th nea politikh ths sthn oikonomia. Ta ofelh einai oti apokaqistoyme thn ajiopistia ths xwras sto ejwteriko, dioti ajiopistos etairos einai aytos poy leei thn alhqeia kai oxi aytos poy ceydetai.

GALIATSATOS: Exw mperdeytei. Prin apo ena mhna peripoy, h Boylh epikyrwse ton proypologismo, ta stoixeia, toy 2002 opws akribws ta edine o k. Xristodoylakhs. Thn perasmenh ebdomada h Boylh pali, epikyrwse ton proypologismo toy 2003. Pali me ta stoixeia opws eixan katateqei stoys prohgoymenoys proypologismoys. Apo th allh pleyra exoyme epikyrwsh apo thn E.E. twn newn stoixeiwn ths apografhs. Mporeite na moy peite ti apo ta dyo isxyei kai poio apo ta dyo yioqethqhke ston proypologismo ton opoio ekponeite twra;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den antilambanomai thn erwthsh sas. Ekeino to opoio fantazomai oti ypainisseste einai oti alla stoixeia exoyn doqei gia th mia xronia kai alla bgazei h apografh.

GALIATSATOS: Ayto poy lew egw einai oti h apografh exei bgalei diaforetika stoixeia apo ayta poy exei epikyrwsei h Boylh. Ayto poy me exei mperdecei twra einai poia einai ta epishma stoixeia: ta stoixeia poy exei epikyrwsei h Eurostat h ta stoixeia poy exei epikyrwsei to ellhniko koinoboylio; Kai to deytero erwthma einai: me bash poia stoixeia ginetai o proypologismos toy 2005; Ta stoixeia poy exei epikyrwsei h Eurostat h ta stoixeia poy exei epikyrwsei to ellhniko koinoboylio;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me ta stoixeia poy anekycan apo thn apografh, h opoia oloklhrwqhke me th synergasia ths Eurostat, prin apo enamisi mhna peripoy.

BLAXOS: Eipate prin oti amfisbhteite ta stoixeia poy edine h kybernhsh Shmith stoys eyrwpaioys etairoys sthn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph. Mesa sta stoixeia ayta einai kai h ONE. Amfisbhteite me emmeso tropo, thn entajh mas sthn ONE; Einai poly shmantiko ayto giati ekei einai kai h kritikh poy askeitai stoys xeirismoys ths apografhs. Dhladh, h kritikh askeitai oti h apografh phge poly makria apo oti eprepe. Qelw na to dieykrinisete.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eipa prin, oti apo to 2002 eixan arxisei hdh oi amfisbhthseis apo thn E.E. Ayto kai tipote allo.

BLAXOS: Ara, oysiastika, diorqwnete thn apografh toy k. Alogoskoyfh me ayto. Dhladh bazete to orio mexri to 2002. Symfwneite dhladh me thn kritikh poy askeitai ston k. Alogoskoyfh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas dinw ena poly kalo stoixeio sto reportaz sas: H E.E. hdh eixe katalabei ti akribws synebaine sth xwra. Apo to 2002 eixe epishmanei oti ta stoixeia poy lambanei den antapokrinontai sthn pragmatikothta.

BLAXOS: Kai mas ebale, dhladh, sthn ONE me plasmatika stoixeia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yphrjan anakoinwseis Typoy apo thn Eurostat symplhrwmatika ton Martio kai ton Septembrio toy 2002. Sthn anakoinwsh Typoy ths Eurostat stis 16 Septembrioy toy 2002, anaferetai oti h Eurostat den einai se qesh na pistopoihsei toys ariqmoys ths koinopoihshs apo thn Ellada. Kapoies plhrofories sxetika me synallages toy dhmosioy anamenontai na diabibastoyn h den htan plhrhs. Oi logariasmoi toy dhmosioy, opws anaferei h Eurostat, poy koinopoihqhkan qa prepei na qewrhqoyn ws proswrinoi kai ypo anaqewrhsh.

BLAXOS: Gia poies periodoys;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas parapempw se mia anakoinwsh poy ekdoqhke stis 16.09.2002.

BLAXOS: Katalaba. Poy bghke to 2002. Gia poies periodoys milaei h Eurostat; Milaei gia to @99;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Anaferei ta prosfata stoixeia poy eixan doqei.

BLAXOS: Ara oysiastika lete oti me plasmatika stoixeia mas ebale h Eurostat sthn ONE. Ayto mas lete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Profanws den qymaste pote mphkame sthn ONE kai poia einai h xronologia ths anakoinwshs poy sas diabasa. Exoyn diafora peripoy tria xronia.

BLAXOS: Nai alla den mas lete gia poia periodo milaei ayth h anakoinwsh. Ayto einai to shmantiko.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apodeiknyw oti h Eurostat, apo to 2002 epeshmaine oti ta stoixeia poy edine to PASOK den htan akribh.

GKOYTZANHS: Exei plhrofories h kybernhsh h to komma sas oti o k. Shmiths eixe, se olo ayto to diasthma, kanei parembaseis se eyrwpaioys hgetes h sta eyrwpaika koinotika organa, prokeimenoy na yperaspistei th dikh toy oikonomikh politikh poy amfisbhthqhke mesw ths dhmosionomikhs apografhs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Giati den apeyqynete thn erwthsh sas sto PASOK; An jerei na sas pei.

GKOYTZANHS: Mporei na rwthsoyme kai sto PASOK, alla einai eteron ekateron.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, h kybernhsh den exei tis plhrofories. Rwthste sto PASOK kai isws jeroyn na sas apanthsoyn.

POYLIDOY: Epeidh akoysa me ta aytia moy ton k. Doyka, se ekpomph ston 9,84, na systhnei stoys paragontes toy PASOK na erqoyn se epafh me toys Eyrwpaioys ajiwmatoyxoys na kataqesoyn th dikh toys apoch, hqela na rwthsw ean ayth einai kai dikh sas apoch. Oti prepei, dhladh, o kaqe diamartyromenos na apeyqynetai sta koinotika organa gia na prostateyei tis dikes toy apoceis.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den anaferomai se apoceis, alla se ariqmoys kai oi ariqmoi miloyn apo monoi toys, kyriws otan erxetai h Eurostat kai toys epibebaiwnei.

POYLIDOY: Ara, ean to ekane o k. Shmiths, kalws to ekane;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa ypodeijw sto PASOK pws na kanei antipoliteysh kai eidika ston k. Shmith pws na ``xeiristei'' politika mia periodo gia thn opoia kai o idios einai ypeyqynos.

PALAIOLOGOS: Epeidh eipate prohgoymenws oti h Eurostat eixe amfisbhthsei ta stoixeia apo to 2002 kai oti apo tote qewroyse oti den htan akribh ta stoixeia poy tis edine to PASOK, ayto poy den exw katalabei einai oti apo poio xroniko oroshmo h Eurostat qewroyse oti den htan akribh ta stoixeia; Dhladh, to 2002 eipe oti apla ta stoixeia poy mas dinete den einai akribh. Apo poia xronologia qewrei oti ta stoixeia poy dinontan apo tis kybernhseis toy PASOK den htan akribh, alla plasmatika;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas milhsa gia prosfata stoixeia toy 2002.

PALAIOLOGOS: Den aforoyse prohgoymena eth, xronies apo 1996 kai meta, prin to 2000;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apanthsa hdh.

MPOTSARAKOS: Eipate prin oti to kentriko problhma einai ta plasmatika stoixeia. Kai bebaiws, gi` ayto yparxei kai h anagkh ths apografhs. To dentro, eipate, einai h meqodologia. Dhladh, ws pros th meqodologia mporei na mhn htan 100% swsth. Mporeite na peite oti htan 100% swsth h meqodologia toy k. Alogoskoyfh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Htan apolytws swsth.

KAKALHS: Pws symbibazontai oi ejaggelies kai oi desmeyseis toy Prwqypoyrgoy gia meiwsh twn dapanwn sta ejoplistika programmata me th nea agora toy 21oy aiwna poy fainetai oti dromologeitai gia thn promhqeia 60 newn maxhtikwn aeroskafwn, proypologismoy 6-8 dis eyrw;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apo poy fainetai ayto;

KAKALHS: Apo ta reportaz twn efhmeridwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Otan to reportaz ginei pragmatikothta, qa sxoliasw to qema.

KAKALHS: To diaceydete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den mporw na asxoloymai me kaqe fhmh kai plhroforia poy dhmosieyetai.

GKOYTZANHS: Oxi, alla mporeite na gnwrizete ean h kybernhsh qa agorasei ta aeroskafh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh exei dhlwsei oti qa kanei prajh thn politikh ths sth diarkeia ths tetraetias.

SIDERHS: Paroysiasate meros ths alhqeias, oson afora to 2002 kai thn allhlografia ths Eurostat me thn kybernhsh tote. Qymamai oti o Xristodoylakhs eixe steilei ena enhmerwtiko shmeiwma kai h Eurostat ek twn ysterwn apodexqhke tis ejhghseis kai ta stoixeia poy eixe dwsei o Xristodoylakhs. Ayto yparxei sta epishma praktika, ta opoia qa brei o armodios ypoyrgos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epanalambanw: To 2002 h Eurostat eqese to problhma dyo fores.

XIWTHS: Yphrjan dhmosieymata, epikaloymena kybernhtikes phges, poy aneferan oti h kybernhsh apofasise thn promhqeia 60 newn aeroskafwn, akyrwnontas ena prosymfwno poy yphrxe gia thn promhqeia Eurofighter. Einai alhqhs ayth h eidhsh h oxi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Parakalw gia to sygkekrimeno qema na apeyqynqeite sto ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynas. Wstoso, apanthsa sthn erwthsh, prohgoymenws, legontas oti h kybernhsh efarmozei thn politikh ths sth diarkeia mias tetraetias.

XIWTHS: Ayto den apanta sthn erwthsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Pws den apanta; To erwthma htan ean ayjanontai h meiwnontai ta ejoplistika programmata.

XIWTHS: Oti efarmozetai mia politikh einai@. (den akoygetai)

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanete laqos. Exei shmasia na dei kaneis poia einai h politikh sth diarkeia ths tetraetias. Oxi mono ton prwto h to deytero xrono.

XIWTHS: H promhqeia 60 maxhtikwn aeroskafwn den einai mikro pragma. Einai profanws mia koryfaia apofash poy lambanetai apo ton Prwqypoyrgo. Rwtw, oi dhmosiografikes plhrofories poy grafontai sta dhmosieymata einai alhqeis h oxi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanena sxolio.

KAKALHS: Den qa proxwrhsete sthn agora twn 60 maxhtikwn aeroskafwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Otan kai ean prokeitai na ginei kati, qa anakoinwqei epishmws.

XONDROS: Qa hqela na rwthsw kata poso isxyoyn oi plhrofories poy blepoyn shmera to fws ths dhmosiothtas, symfwna me tis opoies to nomosxedio gia to basiko metoxo qa paei pisw peripoy eji mhnes.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Idoy mia laqos plhroforia.

XONDROS: Yparxei dikastikh emplokh poy sas anagkazei na perimenete h isxyei ayto poy eixate pei oti mexri telos toy xronoy qa paei to nomosxedio sth Boylh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Isxyei oti mexri telos toy etoys qa katateqei to nomosxedio sth Boylh.

GALIATSATOS: Epeidh, opws mas perigrafete, h katastash ths oikonomias einai arketa dramatikh, enexei ayto to qema ths asxhmhs oikonomikhs katastashs kai to endexomeno prowrwn eklogwn to Martio;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi.

BLAXOS: Epeidh eiste kai armodios ypoyrgos, exei ftasei sto grafeio sas to endiaferon dhmosiografoy gia th qesh toy Dieyqynth Eidhsewn ths ERT, anqrwpoy poy, opws emeis oi dhmosiografoi gnwrizoyme, exei emplakei sto parelqon se ayto poy eseis onomazete ``lehlasia toy Xrhmatisthrioy'', apokomizontas para polla xrhmata gia ton trapeziko toy logariasmo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi opoies allages se ayto to epipedo sthn ERT den ginontai oyte apo politika, oyte apo ypoyrgika grafeia. Ginontai apo ton Proedro kai to Dioikhtiko Symboylio ths ERT. Pantws, den mporw na katalabw poy apeyqynetai ayto poy lete kai den nomizw na isxyei kati tetoio.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, eipate oti ayrio qa syzhthqei sthn Kybernhtikh Epitroph o anaptyjiakos nomos. Mporeite na mas peite ean qa katateqei kai an qa chfistei mexri to telos toy xronoy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyme desmeyqei gi ayto.

GKOYTZANHS: Oti qa chfistei h oti qa katateqei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oti qa katateqei ews to telos toy xronoy.

GKOYTZANHS: Ara, mporei na chfistei ton epomeno.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se ayth thn aiqoysa amfisbhthqhke ean qa yparjoyn o anaptyjiakos nomos kai to forologiko nomosxedio, ean qa katateqoyn kai pote.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Pote den to amfisbhthsame, kyrie Ekproswpe. Toys xronoys poy dinei h kybernhsh amfisbhthsame.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oson afora sto forologiko nomosxedio rwthqhka polles fores gia to an qa ginei kai pote. Eixame pei oti qa katateqei entos toy Noembrioy kai etsi egine. O anaptyjiakos nomos qa katateqei kai aytos entos toy Noembrioy. To nomosxedio gia to basiko metoxo, qa katateqei ews to telos toy xronoy, opws exoyme desmeyqei.

GKOYTZANHS: Jerete, yparxei mia diadikasia mexri na chfistei. Mexri na chfistei den einai nomos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws to gnwrizw.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Epaneilhmmenws, s` ayth thn aiqoysa exete xarakthrisei prowro to qema ths proedrologias, to qema ths proedrikhs ekloghs. Wstoso, exw thn ejhs aporia: Enw eseis to qewreite epishmws edw san Ekproswpos ths Kybernhshs prowro, giati kybernhtika stelexh kai stelexh ths N.D. kai se kanalia kai se efhmerides synexeia pairnoyn qesh panw sto qema;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas lew ti isxyei gia thn kybernhsh. Bebaiws, kaqe boyleyths, mporei na exei mia proswpikh apoch sto qema kai na thn ekfrasei. Gia thn kybernhsh, ayth th stigmh, to qema einai prowro.

GALIATSATOS: O k. Kaklamanhs, shmera, ston ``Eleyqero Typo'' dinei mia synenteyjh opoy leei ``as tolmhsei o k. Papandreoy na mas paei se ekloges''. Pws sxoliazete ayto to ``as tolmhsei''; Einai qema tolmhs oi ekloges;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa to sxoliasw.

Sas eyxaristw.

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