Greek Government Press Briefing, 03-10-22

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 22 Oktwbrioy 2003

JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO XRHSTO PRWTOPAPA

Geia sas.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, qa hqela na rwthsw pws qa sxoliazate to perasma toy Toyrkoy ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn k. Gkioyl apo thn Ellada, oson afora bebaia, oxi thn perifhmh xamhlh politikh, alla ta spoydaia eqnika qemata, metajy twn opoiwn kai to Kypriako. Kai ayto giati h entypwsh poy yparxei kai edw kai sthn Kypro einai oti telika to Kypriako to perasame epidermika, ejaitias ths toyrkikhs bebaia pleyras, h opoia den qelhse na to syzhthsei.

PRWTOPAPAS: To Kypriako den to perasame kaqoloy epidermika. Isa-isa, yparxei shmerinh anafora toy Prwqypoyrgoy poy qetei ws proypoqesh ths eyrwpaikhs poreias ths Toyrkias to Kypriako.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Ejhgoymai: Ennow apo thn pleyra ths Toyrkias@

PRWTOPAPAS: H ellhnikh pleyra qetei to zhthma ayto ws proypoqesh gia thn eyrwpaikh poreia ths Toyrkias. Yparxoyn, ejalloy, kai oi shmerines dhlwseis, toso toy Prwqypoyrgoy, oso kai toy k. Papandreoy. Ayto, omws, den shmainei oti ayth kaqayth h episkech toy k. Gkioyl den eixe to diko ths qetiko periexomeno. Dioti kaqe kinhsh kai antallagh apocewn poy exei na kanei me th dhmioyrgia enos kalyteroy klimatos synennohshs anamesa stis dyo xwres, mporei na apobei kai xrhsimh kai wfelimh. O dialogos einai kai proypoqesh gia na dhmioyrghqei ena kalytero klima kai to kalytero klima apotelei proypoqesh gia na dhmioyrghqoyn oi synqhkes epilyshs twn problhmatwn. Me ayth thn ennoia, loipon, kai xwris na exoyme kati ameso, pisteyoyme oti h episkech htan petyxhmenh kai exei na prosferei kai sta qemata poy aforoyn tis dyo xwres kai toys dyo laoys.

Na tonisw oti shmera to prwi yphrje mia idiaitera shmantikh ejelijh. Ennow th syskech poy egine me thn paroysia kai idiaitera shmantikwn paragontwn ths oikonomias mas. Paristanto o Dioikhths ths Kentrikhs Trapezas, o Dioikhths ths Eqnikhs Trapezas ths Elladas kai bebaiws o ypoyrgos Oikonomias N. Xristodoylakhs, kaqws kai oi dyo ypoyrgoi Ejwterikwn ths Elladas kai ths Toyrkias. Sth syskech ayth syzhthqhkan qemata idiaitera shmantika, ta opoia aptontai ths oikonomikhs synergasias Elladas - Toyrkias kai mporei na symbaloyn me th seira toys se ena klima stenoterhs synergasias metajy twn dyo xwrwn. Egine mia eyrytath antallagh apocewn. O k. Gkioyl anaxwrei, ypo synqhkes kalyterhs synennohshs.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Qa hqela na sas rwthsw ean mporeite na mas peite se ti anaferotan h synomilia toy k. Shmith me ton k. Gkioyl kai an exoyme kapoia shmeia apo ayth th synomilia.

PRWTOPAPAS: Sas parapempw sth dhlwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy poy anaferei oti syzhthqhkan qemata poy aforoyn tis sxeseis Elladas - Toyrkias, me idiaiterh emfash sto Kypriako kai thn eyrwpaikh poreia ths Toyrkias.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, bebaiws, eipa oti to eqese h ellhnikh kybernhsh kai o k. Papandreoy ekane poly safh dhlwsh. Rwtw, omws, an yphrje apo pleyras Toyrkias, dhladh, an o k. Gkioyl topoqethqhke. Ti lene oi Toyrkoi; Ayto qelw na mas peite.

PRWTOPAPAS: Den yphrje proodos se ayto to qema. To gnwrizete poly kala. Se ayta ta qemata einai gnwstes oi qeseis ths Toyrkias kai den xreiazetai na tis ekfrasw egw.

SIDERHS: Sygxwreiste moy to xioymor: Qa hqela na rwthsw an to ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn qa ypobalei aithsh sto ypoyrgeio Emporioy gia na parei diplwma eyresitexnias gia thn patenta poy anakalyce me ta esoda apo tis apokratikopoihseis.

PRWTOPAPAS: Ta oikonomika den prosferontai gia xioymor. Oyte bebaia gia qlich.

SIDERHS: Synadei h patenta ayth me th qesh sas peri isxyrhs oikonomias;

PRWTOPAPAS: Fobamai oti den exete diabasei kala thn anakoinwsh toy ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn.

SIDERHS: Bebaiws, eida oti o k. Lafazanhs dikaiwqhke.

PRWTOPAPAS: Fobamai oti den exete diabasei kala thn anakoinwsh, h opoia einai safhs kai sthn opoia sas parapempw. Den eiste safhs. An, omws, me rwtate genikws qa sas pw oti h xqesinh anakoinwsh toy ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn -poy gia tetoia qemata, oyte xioymor, oyte qlich xwroyn, alla xreiazetai sobarothta, giati exei na kanei me thn poreia ths xwras kai th dieqnh eikona ths- einai safhs, epejhghmatikh kai monon enas kakopistos den qa mporoyse na symfwnhsei oti dinei plhreis apanthseis sta erwthmata poy teqhkan. En pash periptwsei, ean qelete kapoio sygkekrimeno shmeio na sas analysw, eyxaristws. H genikh anakoinwsh poy exw mprosta moy einai safhs kai epejhghmatikh. Bohqa na katanohsoyme tis apanthseis se oles tis erwthseis.

SIDERHS: Xrhsimopoihqhkan ejoda apo ayta gia thn Olympiada kai gia tis syntajeis toy TEBE;

PRWTOPAPAS: Sas diabazw thn anakoinwsh: Ta esoda twn apokratikopoihsewn xrhsimopoihqhkan gia na plhrwqoyn: Ta ejoda twn apokratikopoihsewn, opws h proetoimasia toys, amoibes symboylwn kai to kostos anadiatajhs twn epixeirhsewn. Deyteron, ypoxrewseis poy prokyptoyn apo tis apokratikopoihseis, apozhmiwseis, apolyseis, syntajiodothseis, o,ti exei se kaqe epixeirhsh. Triton, ypoxrewseis poy epiballei o nomos gia kaqe epixeirhsh poy apokratikopoieitai (TAPOTE, Tameia, sth DEH opws egine, k.t.l.). Apo to poso poy menei ejofloyntai ypoxrewseis toy Dhmosioy pros tritoys, dhladh ta posa den xrhsimopoioyntai mono gia th meiwsh toy dhmosioy xreoys, opws einai h proagora entokwn grammatiwn kai omologwn toy Dhmosioy, alla kai gia ofeiles toy Dhmosioy me thn eyreia ennoia. Oses apo aytes tis plhrwmes apoteloyn taytoxrona dapanh toy Dhmosioy, h opoia ephreazei to elleimma h dapanh ayth emfanizetai sto elleimma twn loipwn forewn ths Genikhs Kybernhshs. Symfwna me to ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn, ola ta stoixeia ths DEKA kai toy logariasmoy apokratikopoihsewn kai olwn twn allwn eidikwn logariasmwn katagrafontai sta stoixeia toy elleimmatos ths Genikhs Kybernhshs, symfwna -kai to tonizw ayto- me toys kanones ths Eurostat. Kai apo to 2002 ola ta stoixeia ths kinhshs toy logariasmoy apokratikopoihsewn emfanizontai apolyta stoys logariasmoys toy isologismoy toy kratoys. Einai ola kaqara kai symfwna me toys eyrwpaikoys kanones. Den katalabainw giati qa prepei na diafwnoyme.

FILHS: Kat` epanalhch kai o Prwqypoyrgos kai o ypoyrgos Oikonomikwn eixan tonisei oti ta esoda apo tis apokratikopoihseis qa ajiopoihqoyn gia th meiwsh kai monon toy dhmosioy xreoys. Edw paradexetai o ypoyrgos Oikonomikwn, kata tropo safh, opws diabasate ki eseis, oti ena meros to opoio einai megalo, den einai mikro, eite amesa, eite emmesa, alla kai amesa apo o,ti o idios paradexetai kateyqynetai apo ta xrhmata twn apokratikopoihsewn gia trexoyses dapanes toy Dhmosioy. Dhladh, den kateyqynetai gia thn apoplhrwmh toy dhmosioy xreoys. Edw yparxei mia kybernhtikh ypanaxwrhsh.

PRWTOPAPAS: Giati, to na plhrwseis apo ta esoda twn apokratikopoihsewn ta ejoda toys einai kybernhtikh ypanaxwrhsh;

FILHS: To na plhrwseis thn Olympiada, ti einai;

PRWTOPAPAS: Na ta paroyme ena-ena; Safws symfwnoyme oti ta xrhmata twn apokratikopoihsewn phgainoyn pros dyo kyries phges. H mia einai, osa pairnei to dhmosio, ta diaqetei kyriws gia to dhmosio xreos. Kai deyteron, osa menoyn stis epixeirhseis, diatiqentai gia tis ependyseis toys, gia na mhn jexname kai ayto to skelos, poy einai idiaitera shmantiko.

FILHS: H aytoxrhmatodothsh twn ejodwn ths apokratikopoihshs...

PRWTOPAPAS: Einai logiko oti qa plhrwsei to kratos ta ejoda ths apokratikopoihshs. Einai, epishs, logiko oti qa plhrwsei ypoxrewseis poy h apokratikopoihsh genna. Prepei, gia paradeigma, na dwsoyme kinhtra ejodoy sta Nayphgeia Skaramagka, opws kanoyme. Qa plhrwqoyn kapoia ejoda. Kai ayto gia na exoyme omales ejelijeis kai na mh qigoyn oi ergazomenoi. Triton, ta posa poy menoyn, phgainoyn kyriws gia kalych toy dhmosioy xreoys, proagora entokwn grammatiwn kai omologwn toy Dhmosioy, alla kai gia ofeiles toy Dhmosioy, me thn eyreia ennoia, pros tritoys. Emfanisame to sxetiko poso sto elleimma twn loipwn forewn ths genikhs kybernhshs. Emfanizoyme, symfwna akribws me ta stoixeia ths EUROSTAT, olh th xrhsh twn logariasmwn, oswn toylaxiston katagrafontai sta stoixeia toy elleimmatos ths genikhs kybernhshs, symfwna me toys kanones ths EUROSTAT. Ayta ta pragmata einai gnwsta, exoyn elegxqei apo th EUROSTAT, exoyn emfanistei sta elleimmata kai den yparxei kanena qema, oyte oti exoyme ejapathsei kanenan, oyte oti exoyme prokalesei problhma se kanenan.

FILHS: H kybernhsh dia toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai toy ypoyrgoy Oikonomias epaneilhmmenws -teleytaia fora qymamai sth Qessalonikh thn omilia toy Prwqypoyrgoy- exei desmeyqei oti ta xrhmata apo tis apokratikopoihseis qa ejyphrethsoyn kai mono ton ena stoxo poy einai h meiwsh toy dhmosioy xreoys. Shmera paradexetai to ypoyrgeio Oikonomias oti den einai mono to dhmosio xreos, einai kyriws ayto -syzhteitai ki ean einai etsi- einai kai alles trexoyses dapanes. Edw yparxei ypanaxwrhsh. Mazeyete xrhmata poylwntas th dhmosia perioysia gia na plhrwnete toys Olympiakoys Agwnes.

PRWTOPAPAS: Kanete ena basiko laqos, dioti profanws qelete na dhmioyrghsete qema me toys Olympiakoys Agwnes. Den einai etsi.

FILHS: Se kanenan den qelw na dhmioyrghsw qema. Eseis dhmioyrgeite me tis yperbaseis sas.

PRWTOPAPAS: Xrhsimopoioyntai gia to dhmosio xreos, xrhsimopoioyntai osa menoyn stis epixeirhseis gia tis ependyseis toys kai bebaiws, pera apo ta ejoda twn apokratikopoihsewn kai tis ypoxrewseis poy oi apokratikopoihseis gennoyn, xrhsimopoihqhke ena mikro meros gia ofeiles toy Dhmosioy, me thn eyreia ennoia, kai anefera xarakthristika tis ofeiles pros to TEBE, oi opoies einai ofeiles toy Dhmosioy. Den einai trexoyses dapanes. Einai allo to ena kai allo to allo kai mhn kanete pws den to katalabainete.

FILHS: Amfisbhteite oti o Prwqypoyrgos sth Qessalonikh kai o ypoyrgos Oikonomias eipan oti ta xrhmata phgainoyn mono gia to dhmosio xreos;

PRWTOPAPAS: Kinhqhkan apolyta sto plaisio poy kaqorizei h anakoinwsh toy ypoyrgeioy Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn.

FILHS: Sas rwtw kati eyqews... Yparxei kybernhtikh desmeysh oti ta xrhmata apo tis apokratikopoihseis qa ejyphrethsoyn mono ena stoxo poy einai h meiwsh toy dhmosioy xreoys;

PRWTOPAPAS: Kinhqhkame apolyta sto plaisio poy eixame xarajei.

FILHS: Yparxei h oxi h desmeysh;

PRWTOPAPAS: Sas apanthsa.

MIXAHL: Qa hqela na rwthsw, pws skeftetai h kybernhsh na lysei to problhma me toys ergazomenoys twn OTA, dedomenoy oti einai gnwsto oti to ypoyrgeio katafeygei sta dikasthria gia na khryxqei h apergia paranomh kai kataxrhstikh; Akoysa dhlwseis armodiwn ypoyrgwn kai kybernhtikwn paragontwn oti h apergia einai emfanws kataxrhstikh kai oti qa apofasisei to dikasthrio. To problhma einai oti se ligo kairo pali qa yparxei tetoio problhma, giati eseis diapragmateyeste me toys ergazomenoys gia logariasmo tritwn, dhladh twn Dhmwn. Pws qa lysete olo ayton to kykewna twn problhmatwn;

PRWTOPAPAS: Yparxoyn polla zhthmata metajy kratoys kai dhmwn, ayth th stigmh, omws, den krinontai ayta. Ayto poy krinetai twra einai ean mprosta sto adiejodo poy exei dhmioyrghqei -meta to dialogo poy egine me thn Omospondia twn ergazomenwn kai thn prospaqeia poy katebale h kybernhsh, symfwna kai me tis dhlwseis toy ypoyrgoy Eswterikwn- gia na lysei polla apo ayta ta problhmata, paramenei mia katastash, h opoia odhgei se mia polyhmerh apergia poy qetei se kindyno th dhmosia ygeia, tote h Politeia einai ypoxrewmenh na parembei, opws kai egine. Monadikos logos ths prosfyghs einai h prostasia ths ygeias twn politwn toy Lekanopedioy. Prospaqhsame na broyme lysh me toys ergazomenoys, kaname dialogo, prospaqhsame na antimetwpisoyme qetika ta aithmata toys. Omws, yparxoyn kai aithmata poy yperbainoyn kata poly ta oria ths oikonomias.

MIXAHL: H kritikh poy yfistasqe ws kybernhsh einai h ejhs: Kanete mia diapragmateysh, ypografete mia syllogikh symbash me toys ergazomenoys, oi ergazomenoi egeiroyn aithmata kai peran ths syllogikhs symbashs, gia logariasmo oxi diko sas, gia logariasmo twn Dhmwn. H ka Mpakogiannh leei oti, egw mazeyw ta skoypidia, alla...

PRWTOPAPAS: Den exete dikio. Polla apo ta aithmata poy exoyn teqei h mallon ta perissotera aforoyn to logariasmo twn idiwn twn ypallhlwn, oxi twn Dhmwn.

ANTYPAS: Qa hqela thn ektimhsh ths Kybernhshs, an yparxei, sto ejhs erwthma: Pisteyete oti ta aithmata einai yperbolika; Yperbainoyn kata poly, opws eipate eseis, ta oria ths Oikonomias, epeidh oi ergazomenoi qewroyn oti exoyn brei mia ``xrysh'' eykairia logw eklogwn h epeidh yparxei kapoia politikh skopimothta pisw apo ayta;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den einai h prwth fora poy antimetwpizoyme problhma me apergia ston tomea ths kaqariothtas. Ta teleytaia xronia eixame, kat` epanalhch, tetoies apergiakes kinhtopoihseis. An oi ergazomenoi pisteyoyn, epeidh einai h teleytaia periodos ths qhteias ths kybernhshs, oti prosferetai gia megalyteres diekdikhseis, h kybernhsh apanta oti den krinei proeklogika. Me idiaitero sebasmo antimetwpizei ta problhmata twn ergazomenwn, kanei dialogo, prospaqei na epilysei osa apo ayta ta problhmata mporei, alla panta kineitai aysthra -eite einai h prwth xronia, eite einai h teleytaia xronia- sto plaisio twn pragmatikwn dynatothtwn ths Oikonomias. Bebaiws, otan prokeitai na prostateysei thn ygeia twn politwn, proxwrei kai se prajeis, opws h shmerinh.

ANTYPAS: Politikh skopimothta yparxei;

PRWTOPAPAS: Oxi, den eipa ayto.

FILHS: Eixa ypoballei mia erwthsh apo xqes, qa thn apanthsete;

PRWTOPAPAS: Th diereynoyme. Exw epikoinwnhsei me ta armodia ypoyrgeia kai perimenw apanthseis. Einai texniko qema.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Kata kairoys h Kybernhsh isxyrizetai oti qa ferei ena nomosxedio gia ton eksygxronismo toy politikoy systhmatos...

PRWTOPAPAS: Ennoeite ton eklogiko nomo;

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Kai ton eklogiko nomo kai to ``poqen esxes'', genikotera ton eksygxronismo toy politikoy systhmatos. Pws sxoliazete kai an synadei me ola ayta poy ejaggellei h kybernhsh, h stash twn boyleytwn toy PASOK sth xqesinh syzhthsh gia ta qemata ths arshs ths asylias;

PRWTOPAPAS: Kat` arxas, exw thn ektimhsh oti adikeite toys boyleytes toy PASOK. En pash periptwsei jerete oti den synhqizw na sxoliazw qemata poy exoyn na kanoyn me th Boylh twn Ellhnwn.

FILHS: To sxoliasate hdh. Eipate oti toys adikoyme, ara to sxoliasate.

PRWTOPAPAS: Eipa oti toys adikeite, epeidh ta xqesina problhmata poy dhmioyrghqhkan o k. Xasapopoylos ta entopise stoys boyleytes toy PASOK. Omws, ap` o,ti eida, oso emeina xqes sth Boylh, den proerxontan kyriws apo toys boyleytes toy PASOK. Alla ayto den einai qema antiparaqeshs.

I. XASAPOPOYLOS: Den mporoysa na sas pw gia toys boyleytes ths N.D.

PRWTOPAPAS: Eipa oti adikeite toys boyleytes toy PASOK. Xrhsimopoihsa geniko oro. Pragmati, emfanisthke xqes sth Boylh ena fainomeno -paroti den synhqizw na sxoliazw ta tektainomena sth Boylh- to opoio dhmioyrghse kakes entypwseis pros ta ejw. Ayto poy qelw na epishmanw ws geniko kanona einai oti otan h Boylh chfizei ena neo Kanonismo gia na prowqhsei zhthmata eksygxronismoy toy politikoy bioy mas, aytos o Kanonismos prepei na sthrizetai kai na efarmozetai. Den xreiazetai na prosqesw tipota perissotero.

KALARITHS: Skopeyei h kybernhsh na kanei...

PRWTOPAPAS: H diapistwsh poy ekana einai genikh kai safhs. Prokeitai gia politikh diapistwsh.

Sas eyxaristw.

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