Greek Government Press Briefing, 03-07-15

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 15 Ioylioy 2003

JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO XRHSTO PRWTOPAPA

Geia sas.

Parakalw, tis erwthseis sas.

PITTARAS: O tropos me ton opoio xeiristhkate xqes to qema twn dhlwsewn Mhtsotakh -ta yponooymena, oi anagwges sto parelqon- qymizei se polla to "sklhro rok". Qa synexisete ayth thn taktikh, estw kai me apoysia toy k. Laliwth;

PRWTOPAPAS: Einai safes oti emeis qeloyme to hpio politiko klima. Ayto, omws, to klima exei kai tis dikes toy paradoxes. Hpio politiko klima shmainei kai synantilhch kai symfwnia oti kinoymaste mesa apo omales ejelijeis. An arxisoyme na milame gia paraithsh toy Proedroy ths Dhmokratias kai alla paromoia, ayta parapempoyn se alles katastaseis, alles antilhceis, alles symperifores. Logiko, loipon, einai na antidroyme se aytes tis symperifores. Ektimoyme oti h antidrash se aytes tis periptwseis einai ygihs kai epibeblhmenh. Dioti etsi akribws "kobetai" h koybenta. Kai einai, pragmati, qetiko oti shmera seira stelexwn ths N.D., me dhlwseis toys se radiofwnikes ekpompes, prospaqoysan na kleisoyn ayth th syzhthsh. Qa htan, omws, poly kalytera -kai ayto kaloyme th N.D. na kanei- na bgei to komma eyqews kai na apodokimasei aytoy toy typoy tis apoceis, aytoy toy typoy tis antilhceis. Ayth qa htan h kalyterh, h eyqeia kai pio kaqarh antidrash.

I. KAMPOYRAKHS: Na eklabw apo thn apanthsh sas oti den qewreite ws apodokimasia, estw kai emmesh, thn apanthsh poy edwse o Proedros ths N. D. k. Karamanlhs sth synenteyjh Typoy poy edwse xqes, meta tis dhlwseis toy k. Mhtsotakh;

PRWTOPAPAS: Ayto htan mh apanthsh. Kai mporei h N.D. kai o k. Karamanlhs na exoyn synhqisei stis mh apanthseis. H kalyterh lysh, omws -kai ayto poy perimenei o ellhnikos laos apo ena komma ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs- einai h kaqarh ejhghsh. Symfwnoyn, nai h oxi. Mporei na poyn den symfwnoyme. Ayto shmainei oti pairneis apostaseis, apodokimazeis th sygkekrimenh energeia, th sygkekrimenh prajh, th sygkekrimenh rhsh. H N.D. den to exei kanei. An qelei telika na exei kaqares apoceis, anti na mila -opws ekanan shmera polla stelexh ths- peri diagrammatwn, na parei mia kaqarh qesh. Ayto perimenoyme kai ayto perimenei o ellhnikos laos na kanei.

IWANNOY: Shmera to prwi, pragmatopoihqhke h prwth syskech sto Megaro Majimoy me th symmetoxh kai toy Grammatea ths K.E. toy kommatos k. Xrysoxoidh. Qa hqela na rwthsw praktika h symmetoxh toy k. Xrysoxoidh se ti qa bohqhsei se aythn thn epiqesh poy anoigei h kybernhsh enantion toy metwpoy ths kerdoskopias; Qa kanei kati sygkekrimeno o k. Xrysoxoidhs;

PRWTOPAPAS: H symmetoxh toy kommatos se mia seira meizonos shmasias qematwn poy aforoyn amesa ton polith einai idiaitera shmantikh. Qa elega oti einai anantikatastath. Oxi mono gia th metafora ths plhroforhshs, ths apochs, twn qesewn poy syllambanei to komma mesa apo thn epafh toy me toys polites kai ta mazika kinhmata, alla kai gia th dynatothta symbolhs toy se aytes tis kinhseis. Gia paradeigma, to komma mas exei para poly stenes sxeseis, sxeseis dialogoy, sxeseis allhlotrofodothshs empeiriwn kai protasewn, sxeseis sympleyshs, me para polla mazika kinhmata. Antilambaneste oti enas agwnas poy afora laika aithmata, opws einai h antimetwpish ths akribeias, mporei na enisxyqei shmantika me thn anaptyjh toy katanalwtikoy kinhmatos. Einai ena qema sto opoio to PASOK, ws kommatikos sxhmatismos, mporei na diadramatisei prwteyonta rolo. To idio mporei na kanei, ajiopoiwntas tis sxeseis toy me alla mazika kinhmata, symballontas etsi kai sth dikh toys energopoihsh, sth genikoterh endynamwsh toy metwpoy kata ths akribeias. Kata synepeia, toso h metafora toy problhmatismoy poy exei to komma apo th sxesh toy me toys polites, oso kai h dynatothta metaforas apocewn, problhmatismwn, kinhsewn, metrwn, politikwn, alla kai h dhmioyrgia eyryteroy metwpoy sthn kateyqynsh ylopoihshs aytwn twn politikwn xreiazontai anamfibola ston energo rolo kai th symbolh toy kommatos. H symmetoxh, loipon, toy k. Xrysoxoidh exei enan idiaitera barynonta kai shmantiko rolo.

STAMATOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh mexri twra htan toso anikanh poy den mporoyse na katalabei ta problhmata kai xreiasthke to komma;

PRWTOPAPAS: Yparxei -opws sas exw pei me bash th marjistikh paideia- kai to stadio ths poiotikhs anabaqmishs. Einai mia poiotikh allagh. Ayto shmainei oti kaneis th doyleia soy, exeis mia seira empeiries, problhmatismoys, qetika apotelesmata kai kapoia stigmh ektimas -apo th stigmh poy qeleis na strateyseis olh thn koinwnia, gia na yperaspistei kai na dieykolynei tis politikes soy- oti xreiazetai kai mia poiotikh metabolh. Thn poiotikh ayth metabolh mporei na mas th dwsei to komma. Gia paradeigma, h energopoihsh kai h symbolh toy katanalwtikoy kinhmatos einai ena krisimo gia mas zhthma gia thn katapolemhsh ths akribeias. Qelw na sas ypenqymisw oti kai sto parelqon, otan yphrje to mpoikotaz apo ta katanalwtika kinhmata, o tote Grammateas toy PASOK -kai eixame symfwnhsei oloi se ayto- eixe sthrijei anoixta tis kinhtopoihseis toy katanalwtikoy kinhmatos. Yphrje, loipon, yparxei kai synexizetai energos rolos toy kommatos se ayta ta qemata. Ti kalytero na mporei to komma na kataqetei th symbolh toy kai se aytes tis syskeceis.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Dhladh, oi ypoyrgoi den exoyn katalabei ti ginetai kai xreiazetai h symmetoxh allwn; Den einai mesa sthn koinwnia; Einai apomonwmenoi toso poly h exoyn alles doyleies;

PRWTOPAPAS: Anabaqmizetai h drash toys. Prokeitai gia anabaqmish ths apotelesmatikothtas ths drashs toys.

TAKHS: O k. Laliwths den eixe oles aytes tis epafes, th zymwsh me ta katanalwtika kai ola ta alla kinhmata;

PRWTOPAPAS: Sas prolaba, hdh, kai edwsa apanthsh sto erwthma sas.

TAKHS: Allo sxolio kai allo qesh@

PRWTOPAPAS: An rwtate giati tote den symmeteixe kai twra symmetexei o Grammateas, sas lew oti diapistwnoyme mia elleich kai th qerapeyoyme me th sygkekrimenh prajh. Apo th stigmh poy diapistwsame ena problhma den qa to qerapeysoyme, epeidh allaje ena proswpo; Oxi, bebaia. Antiqetws malista to idio mporei na ginei kai se alles periptwseis. Sas eipa, allwste, oti yphrxe energos anamijh toy PASOK dia toy tote Grammatea Kwsta Laliwth ston agwna poy eixan dwsei ta katanalwtika kinhmata gia thn antimetwpish ths akribeias. Den einai h prwth fora poy to komma symmetexei se aythn thn prospaqeia. Aporw, omws, giati sas kanei entypwsh h symmetoxh toy kommatos se mia ekstrateia gia thn yperaspish twn laikwn symferontwn. An ayto den einai rolos twn politikwn kommatwn, tote anarwtiemai ti einai.

IWANNOY: Sympiptei, omws, me thn allagh sygkekrimenoy proswpoy.

PRWTOPAPAS: Sas qymisa, hdh, analogo prohgoymeno.

KARGOYDH: Epeidh kybernhsh kai komma dianyete mia ejairetika politikh periodo, qa hqela na rwthsw an telika orqws eixan ektimhsei me thn apopomph toy k. Laliwth, oti yphrxe problhma diaforas sthn politikh proseggish@

PRWTOPAPAS: Qelw na sas tonisw th basikh diafwnia mas sth lejh poy xrhsimopoihsate, th lejh "apopomph".

KARGOYDH: H paraithsh - apopomph toy k. Laliwth egine me@

PRWTOPAPAS: Synexizetai h diafwnia mas.

KARGOYDH: Exoyme katalabei oti yphrje diafwnia politikhs. Ej aytoy toy logoy@

PRWTOPAPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos eixe ejaggeilei nees politikes prwtoboylies. Metajy aytwn htan kai h dhmioyrgia amesoy syntonismoy, se idiaitera krisima qemata poy aforoyn ton polith. Einai mia apo tis politikes prwtoboylies poy eixe ejaggeilei o Kwstas Shmiths. Den eixame pei oti qa allajoyme kapoia pragmata; Den eixame ejaggeilei nees politikes prwtoboylies gia thn kalyterh apodosh ths doyleias mas; Den eixame ejaggeilei allages se kapoia pragmata, sxetika me th leitoyrgia mas; Mia apo aytes tis allages htan kai h sygkekrimenh, h opoia ektimoyme oti mporei na exei poly qetika apotelesmata kai qetikh apodosh. Den syndeetai me proswpa ayth h prwtoboylia. Me proswpa syndeetai h katanomh thn opoia qelhse na kanei o Prwqypoyrgos gia thn kalyterh apodosh toy ergoy mas. Gnwrizete oti yphrje ena sygkekrimeno skeptiko katanomhs twn stelexwn mas se ayth thn prospaqeia.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Etsi poy mas ta lete, k. Ypoyrge, symperainei kaneis oti h paroysia toy k. Laliwth sth qesh toy G.G. htan troxopedh@

PRWTOPAPAS: Eipa tetoio pragma egw;

KANELLOPOYLOS: Den to eipate, alla otan milate gia ameso syntonismo kai ayto syndeetai me ta proswpa, opws diapistwnoyme oloi@

PRWTOPAPAS: Eipa oti ayto einai anejarthto apo ta proswpa. Einai dyo diaforetika qemata. To prwto einai oi nees prwtoboylies toy Prwqypoyrgoy gia to syntonismo kybernhshs kommatos kai to deytero h katanomh stelexwn@

KANELLOPOYLOS: Den htan sto plaisio@;

PRWTOPAPAS: Sthn arxh rwtate poies prwtoboylies qa parei o Prwqypoyrgos kai sth synexeia giati tis phre. O Prwqypoyrgos phre thn prwtoboylia gia to syntonismo kybernhshs kai kommatos gia na einai poly apotelesmatikoterh h parembash mas. Prwton, gia na metaferei to komma tis apoceis twn politwn, tis opoies syllambanei poly kalytera apo oloys kai deyteron, dioti to komma syndeetai arrhkta, exei amesh kai istorikh sxesh me ola ta koinwnika kinhmata kai mporei poly kalytera na symbalei sthn ylopoihsh twn megalwn parembasewn gia thn antimetwpish laikwn problhmatwn. Anejarthtws proswpwn o syntonismos aytos qa ginotan. Einai mia allh ypoqesh h katanomh twn stelexwn. Einai allo to prwto kai allo to deytero. Mh ta syndeetai.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Katanomh mono;

PRWTOPAPAS: H katanomh gia thn ajiopoihsh ginetai.

POYLIDOY: Kyrie Ypoyrge, h diakrish ejoysiwn yfistatai; Dioti h kybernhsh einai ektelestikh ejoysia, enw to komma jerw oti anhkei sthn koinwnia twn politwn@

PRWTOPAPAS: Poio einai to problhma se o,ti afora thn katapolemhsh ths akribeias.

POYLIDOY: Yparxei ena qesmiko plaisio to opoio rwtw ean threitai h Parabiazetai;

PRWTOPAPAS: Ejetazoyme mia seira problhmata se syskeceis -dioti den prokeitai gia synedriash kybernhtikwn organwn, alla atyph syskech- gia ena meizon laiko qema: To qema ths akribeias. Qa eprepe mallon na mas sygxareite, giati afoy diapistwnoyme thn yparjh problhmatos gyrw apo thn akribeia, energopoioyme tis dynameis kai ths kybernhshs kai toy kommatos sthn idia kateyqynsh. Kai ayto makari na petyxei. Tis apofaseis gia ta anagkaia metra tis lambanei h kybernhsh. To kybernwn komma anaptyssei tis apoceis kai tis eishghseis toy kai meta th lhch twn kybernhtikwn apofasewn analambanei kai to rolo na syzhthsei me ta koinwnika kinhmata to qema kai thn prowqhsh twn kybernhtikwn prwtoboyliwn. Den einai h prwth fora poy ginetai ayto. O idios, ws stelexos toy kommatos, prin apo to 1996 exw symmetasxei se paromoies miktes syskeceis para polles fores.

POYLIDOY: Paroysia toy Prwqypoyrgoy;

PRWTOPAPAS: Alles paroysia toy Prwqypoyrgoy, alles paroysia ypoyrgwn. Agnoeite oti yparxoyn miktes syskeceis twn kommatikwn stelexwn mas poy drasthriopoioyntai sto syndikalistiko kinhma me ton ypoyrgo Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn kata thn katartish toy Proypologismoy; Edw kai eikosi xronia ginontai tetoies syskeceis.

POYLIDOY: Hjera oti ta kinhmata einai ena diakommatiko h yperkommatiko sxhma. Ayth th stigmh etsi opws to perigrafetai to komma ws "makra xeira" ths kybernhshs synergazetai me to kinhma, to opoio einai enas imantas metaforas twn kybernhtikwn drasthriothtwn sto kinhma.

PRWTOPAPAS: Den exei dikaiwma ena komma na syzhta me ta koinwnika kinhmata se enan problhmatismo gia thn antimetwpish enos meizonos laikoy problhmatos, opws h akribeia; To komma kalei syxna th GSEE, thn ADEDY, thn KEDKE, ta katanalwtika kinhmata -ta eixe kalesei prin apo merikoys mhnes kai o k. Laliwths- kai syzhta kapoies proteraiothtes. To idio mporei na kanoyn kai o Synaspismos kai h N.D. kai to KKE kai ta kommata ths ejwkoinoboyleytikhs Aristeras. Ta koinwnika kinhmata den synomiloyn me ta kommata; Ti antilhceis einai aytes; Poy eimaste; Sth Sobietikh Enwsh;

GARGALAKOS: Xqes rwthqhke o arxhgos ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs kai jekaqarise oti to anoigma toy qematos toy eklogikoy nomoy ek meroys ths kybernhshs einai ``kolpa'' kai ``tertipia'' ths kai oti den sas exei empistosynh gia na koybentiasei twra ayto to qema mazi sas. Ti exete na peite;

PRWTOPAPAS: Einai safes oti diafwnoyme me ton Proedro ths N.D., o opoios opote kaleitai na koybentiasei opoiodhpote qema afora to politiko mas systhma h gia to dhmosio bio ths xwras efeyriskei diafores profaseis gia na mhn proselqei sto dialogo. H N.D. den proshlqe oyte sth syzhthsh gia tis allages stoys OTA kai th Nomarxiakh Aytodioikhsh, oyte se mia seira megales qesmikes allages poy aforoysan th xwra. Twra arneitai na proselqei sto dialogo kai gia ton eklogiko nomo. Einai ena baqia synthrhtiko komma, poy arneitai tis allages. Den qelei tis allages. Emeis, par` ola ayta, qa epimeinoyme. Kai qa epimeinoyme, mesw kai ths koinwnias, gia na odhghsoyme th N.D. sth qesh na dexqei na koybentiasei ayta ta zhthmata poy exoyn na kanoyn me ton eksygxronismo, thn allagh kai th beltiwsh toy politikoy mas systhmatos, toy dhmosioy bioy ths xwras.

GARGALAKOS: Nai, alla pws qa proxwrhsete, otan to komma ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs einai antiqeto;

PRWTOPAPAS: Qelw na sas pw oti oloi oi eklogikoi nomoi exoyn chfistei xwris th symmetoxh toy kommatos ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs. Exoyme jekaqarisei oti qeloyme na proxwrhsoyme kai me to komma ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs. Alla, ama den qelei to idio, qa milhsoyme me thn koinwnia.

I. KAMPOYRAKHS: Qa hqela na moy peite ean isxyoyn oi plhrofories poy dhmosieyontai shmera kai lene ligo-poly oti prwton, o k. Shmiths skopeyei ton Oktwbrio na ferei to qema toy eklogikoy nomoy kai na to perasei apo th Boylh sthn Olomeleia, meta th lhjh twn qerinwn tmhmatwn, deyteron, oti thn epomenh ebdomada oi boyleytes toy PASOK qa kataqesoyn ta stoixeia twn xrhmatisthriakwn synallagwn ston Proedro ths Boylhs kai triton, ean h epektash ths apagoreyshs ektos apo ypoyrgoys kai se boyleytes gia to Xrhmatisthrio kai oles oi alles prwtoboylies poy anakoinwse o k. Shmiths perasoyn to kalokairi apo th Boylh me protaseis nomoy;

PRWTOPAPAS: Gia to prwto qema toy eklogikoy nomoy, prepei na tonisw oti den eimaste se ayth th fash. Eimaste sth fash poy qa paroysiasoyme tis protaseis mas gia dialogo. Den mporoyme na perasoyme sthn epomenh fash ena den kleisei h prwth. Den mporoyme apo twra na milame gia xronodiagrammata. Ektimw, omws, oti h N.D. qa erqei se poly dyskolh qesh, otan paroysiastoyn oi protaseis mas. Epomenws, qewrw oti to qema toy dialogoy gia to politiko mas systhma den einai ena qema poy exei teleiwsei. Bebaiws, ean me rwtate an einai ena shmantiko qema gia emas kai ean qa epimeinoyme, eyqews apantw, nai.

Deyteron, thn Paraskeyh qa ginei mia syskech gia thn ylopoihsh twn allwn triwn prwtoboyliwn. To poqen esxes einai aplo. Prepei h Boylh me toys mhxanismoys ths na kanei ton elegxo, symfwna me thn apofash ths kybernhshs. Kai ayto qa isxyei gia oloys toys boyleytes toy PASOK, apo to 1990 kai meta. Ayto einai to ena kai einai to pio aplo. To deytero exei na kanei me thn paroysiash -ayto poy onomazoyme anoigma kwdikwn- twn xrhmatisthriakwn allagwn kai twn apotelesmatwn toys poy aforoyn toys boyleytes toy PASOK. Meta th syskech ths Paraskeyhs -fantazomai Deytera-Trith- qa apostalei pros oloys toys boyleytes toy PASOK ena sygkekrimeno erwthma, me to opoio qa kaloyntai na apanthsoyn kai na dwsoyn ta sxetika stoixeia.

Oson afora to trito qema ths epektashs ths apagoreyshs twn xrhmatisthriakwn synallagwn, einai safes oti xreiazetai apofash ths Boylhs. Kai ayto to qema qa ejetastei sth syskech ths Paraskeyhs, giati apaiteitai nomoqetikh prwtoboylia.

TSEMPERHS: Me bash ayta poy lete katalabainoyme, prwton, oti h N.D. me dedomenh th qesh ths oti den symmetexei sto dialogo, den sas afora ws politikokoinwnikos etairos kai proxwrate monoi sas kai deyteron...

PRWTOPAPAS: Eipa oti ektimw, pws meta thn paroysiash twn protasewn thn Pempth, h N.D. qa breqei se para poly dyskolh qesh kai me dedomenh th diabebaiwsh mas oti syzhtame kata th diarkeia toy dialogoy kai th xronikh periodo enarjhs ths efarmoghs toy neoy eklogikoy nomoy, para polla apo ta epixeirhmata poy proballei h N.D. qa thn afhsoyn ekqeth enwpion toy ellhnikoy laoy.

Omws, ektos apo th N.D. yparxoyn kai ta alla kommata, poy shmainei oti o dialogos apeyqynetai kai pros ayta. Epishs, oi protaseis mas qa apeyqynqoyn eyrytera kai pros olh thn ellhnikh koinwnia. Den mporw ayth th stigmh na sas dwsw xronodiagramma. Mporw, omws, na sas dwsw thn aisqhsh ths apofasistikothtas mas gia tis metarryqmiseis kai allages poy qa dwsoyn to xarakthra ths ananewshs, ths ajiokratias, ths enisxyshs ths analogikothtas kai ths diafaneias sto politiko mas systhma.

TSEMPERHS: Gia na meinoyme sto idio paketo, h N.D. qa kataqesei thn erxomenh ebdomada nomoqetikh protash gia to qema kai toy poqen esxes kai twn xrhmatisthriakwn synallagwn. H kybernhsh qa to aporricei h qa to dexqei;

PRWTOPAPAS: Gia to qema toy poqen esxes hdh h Boylh mporei na jekinhsei. Oson afora to qema twn xrhmatisthriakwn synallagwn, emeis me entolh toy Prwqypoyrgoy prattoyme to kaqhkon mas. As frontisei kai h N.D. na kanei to idio gia toys boyleytes ths. Den katalabainw giati xreiazetai nomoqetikh protash.

TAKHS: Den to qewreite aparaithto;

PRWTOPAPAS: Apo th stigmh poy oi boyleytes toy PASOK proxwroyn, me prwtoboylia dikh mas, kai qa paroysiasoyn ola ta stoixeia enwpion toy ellhnikoy laoy, ti pio aplo anti na syzhtame gia nomoys, na kanei o k. Karamanlhs to idio me toys boyleytes toy. Isws na anhsyxei gia kati. Alla, ayto den mporw egw na to isxyristw.

TSEMPERHS: Ena trito erwthma, merida toy Typoy synexizei na grafei gia thn katastash ston AQHNA-2004, gia tis dapanes, toys misqoys kai tis ekqeseis. H kybernhsh qewrei oti yparxei qema elegxoy kai diafaneias sta eswterika kai kyriws sta oikonomika qemata toy 2004;

PRWTOPAPAS: To genikotero qema twn oikonomikwn twn Olympiakwn Agwnwn exei systaqei, opws gnwrizete, eidikh epitroph, h opoia ergazetai kanonika.

TAKHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, kai xqes o k. Karamanlhs eipe oti den dexetai thn Epitroph Kefalaiagoras, giati exei ekkremothtes me th Dikaiosynh. Kai gi ayto kataqetei nomoqetikh protash gia na yparjei ena allo organo gia na kanei thn epalhqeysh twn kwdikwn.

PRWTOPAPAS: H apoch toy k. Karamanlh einai epikindynh. Oloi oi Ellhnes polites einai aqwoi mexris apodeijews toy enantioy. O kaqenas mporei na kataqesei mhnyseis kata qesmwn, opws einai h Epitroph Kefalaiagoras. Omws, kaqoloy den einai enoxh h Epitroph Kefalaiagoras, kai ta proswpa bebaiws, mexri na apodeixqei kati tetoio apo th Dikaiosynh. Apo poy tekmairetai oti einai enoxoi; Me apofash toy k. Karamanlh; Metetraph twra kai se dikasth; Aytes einai aparadektes epembaseis kai den exoyn kamia qesh mesa sto politiko mas systhma. H Epitroph Kefalaiagoras einai armodia kai kanei poly kala th doyleia ths, opws eipe o k. Xristodoylakhs. Einai mia Arxh thn opoia h kybernhsh periballei me thn empistosynh ths, einai ena organo poy exei thn apodoxh apo ta dieqnh Xrhmatisthria kai idiaitera ths Eyrwphs. Tetoioy eidoys amfisbhthsh den mporei na ginei apodekth, epeidh etsi apofasise o k. Karamanlhs.

TAKHS: Epeidh lete oti kanenas den einai enoxos mexri apodeijews toy enantioy, mhpws qa prepei na perimenete ki eseis na apofanqei h Dikaiosynh kai meta...

PRWTOPAPAS: Dhladh, na mhn kanoyme th doyleia mas; Oxi, bebaiws. O kaqenas exei dikaiwma na ypobalei mhnyseis. Kai polles fores erxontai kapoioi eisaggeleis -oi anqrwpoi kanoyn th doyleia toys- kai lene na diereynhqei ena qema. Dhladh, ayto ti shmainei; Gia opoiondhpote yparxei mia mhnysh qa stamata kai den qa kanei tipota; Den qa kanei th doyleia toy; Idiaitera otan den yparxoyn oyte endeijeis, oyte apodeijeis oti egine kati strabo. Ayth den einai antilhch. Ayto mporei na dialysei th xwra. Ayth h antilhch parabiazei ton pyrhna toy Syntagmatos mas. Apotelei dikastikh krish, prin apo th dikastikh krish. Ayto einai prwtofanes. Idiaitera otan afora enan qesmo, o opoios exei mia poly eyaisqhth qesh sta oikonomika pragmata ths xwras.

IWANNOY: Gia to qema toy eklogikoy nomoy, lete oti mporei na syzhthsete gia to pote qa isxysei. Ean, omws, exw katalabei kala, h N.D. leei oti ayto den mporei na ginei giati proskroyei sto Syntagma mas. Den mporei na orisete ek neoy apo pote einai, jekaqarismeno apo pote qa isxyei.

PRWTOPAPAS: Den mporoyme na symfwnhsoyme se kati kai na doyme sth synexeia pote qa to chfisoyme;

IWANNOY: Pera apo to Syntagma;

PRWTOPAPAS: Eipa pera apo to Syntagma; Symfwnoyme se kati, to paroysiazoyme ston ellhniko lao kai h xronikh periodos poy to fernoyme sth Boylh epilegetai. Einai para poly eykolo.

IWANNOY: Mporei na einai h epomenh kybernhsh, dhladh;

PRWTOPAPAS: Ean symfwnhsei to syzhtame. Eseis pisteyete oti ean symfwnhsoyn ta dyo megala kommata, alla kai ta alla kommata, qa yparjei kaneis poy qa to arnhqei sth synexeia; Den yparxei tetoio fainomeno sta ellhnika politika xronika.

TAKHS: Ara, syzhtate thn chfish toy apo thn epomenh Boylh.

PRWTOPAPAS: Syzhtoyme ta panta, efoson omws h N.D. proserxetai kai koybentiazei epi ths oysias toy eklogikoy nomoy. Exw pei, kat epanalhch, oti kata th diarkeia toy dialogoy qa syzhthsoyme, ypo thn airesh bebaia ths genikhs symfwnias, kai th xronikh stigmh, wste o nomos na isxysei stis ekloges toy 2008, ean kriqei oti tote prepei na ginoyn ekloges. Eipa oti h N.D. exei enan fobo, ton opoio pragmatika den katanooyme, oti mporei na ginoyn ekloges to 2005. Oso mas afora, oydepote exoyme mplokarei thn eklogh Proedroy Dhmokratias. Kai to 1990 kai to 1995 kai to 2000. Alla, gia na diaskedasoyme kai ayton to fobo ths N.D. eipame oti as erqei sto dialogo kai ekei desmeyomaste na syzhthsoyme kai na symfwnhsoyme ton tropo me ton opoio o eklogikos nomos poy qa chfistei na isxysei apo tis meqepomenes ekloges. Ara, ean ypoteqei oti symfwnoyme ston eklogiko nomo, en tw synolw toy, einai poly eykolo na symfwnhseis kai gia th xronikh stigmh ths chfishs toy, wste na isxyei th sygkekrimenh xronikh periodo.

TAKHS: Kata thn apoch sas, o monos tropos gia na isxysei o eklogikos nomos to 2008 h to 2007, einai na chfistei apo thn epomenh Boylh;

PRWTOPAPAS: Oxi. Kat arxas ayto einai ypo thn airesh ths symfwnias. Ean, loipon, qewrhtika milwntas, symfwnhsoyme me th N.D. gia ton eklogiko nomo, oi armodioi twn kommatwn qa doyn toys praktikoys tropoys kai tis xronikes periodoys gia tis sygkekrimenes kinhseis. Alla, to qema toy eklogikoy nomoy qa exei kleisei. Qa exei paroysiastei enwpion toy ellhnikoy laoy oloklhrwmeno sxedio poy qa einai teliko kai qa desmeyei.

GARGALAKOS: Ean h N.D. den symmetasxei sto dialogo, eseis qa chfisete ton eklogiko nomo;

PRWTOPAPAS: Einai safes oti ean den symfwnhsoyme, eite epi ths oysias, eite epi ths diadikasias, den yparxoyn kai desmeyseis. Ayto einai aytonohto kai safes. Ean h N.D. den proserqei sto dialogo, eite den symfwnhsoyme se enan sygkekrimeno eklogiko nomo, den mporei kaneis na desmeyqei gia ta ypoloipa.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Gia to prohgoymeno qema, efoson o Prwqypoyrgos qelei toso poly th diafaneia gia toys boyleytes giati den proxwra se nomoqetikh ryqmish kai to kanei eswterika mono to qema;

PRWTOPAPAS: Dioti, kapoia stigmh qa prepei na skefqoyme oti oi polles nomoqetikes ryqmiseis se tetoia zhthmata krinontai kai mporei na krinontai arnhtika. Otan ena qema afora qesmoys, opws einai to Xrhmatisthrio, poy prepei na leitoyrgoyn aytonoma kai xwris parembaseis, oi polles nomoqetikes ryqmiseis den eynooyn. Qeloyme th diafaneia kai thn apokalych enwpion toy ellhnikoy laoy twn synallagwn twn boyleytwn; Bebaiws to qeloyme.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Na ginei gia ola, oxi mono gia to Xrhmatisthrio.

PRWTOPAPAS: Ma edw milame gia to Xrhmatisthrio kai gia to qema ayto proxwrame me dikh mas prwtoboylia. Den katalabainw thn epimonh toy arxhgoy ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs na arneitai na dwsei entolh na anoijoyn oi kwdikoi twn boyleytwn toy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: O kaqe arxhgos ayto qa kanei; Giati den kanei nomoqetikh ryqmish gia oloys;

PRWTOPAPAS: O kaqenas mporei na to kanei apo monos toy. Otan zhta nomo shmainei oti mporei na symbainei kati periergo.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Apo monos toy o kaqenas einai koykoylwma.

PRWTOPAPAS: Diafwnoyme plhrws. Diafaneia einai kai oxi koykoylwma. Dioti h aytodiafaneia, o aytoelegxos einai poly kalyteros apo thn katastolh.

Sas eyxaristw poly.

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