Greek Government Press Briefing, 00-02-09

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 9 Febroyarioy 2000

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas.

Prin dexqw tis erwthseis sas qa hqela na kanw dyo sxolia:

To prwto afora thn eklogh toy Proedroy ths Dhmokratias. Ekfrazoyme thn idiaiterh ikanopoihsh mas gia thn anadeijh toy k. Kwnstantinoy Stefanopoyloy gia mia nea qhteia sto ajiwma toy Proedroy ths Ellhnikhs Dhmokratias. Sto proswpo toy ensarkwnetai h omocyxia toy eqnoys kai h enothta twn Ellhnwn politwn. H me ayton ton qriambeytiko tropo anadeijh toy sto anwtato politeiako ajiwma antapokrinetai sthn epitagh toy Syntagmatos, afoy egine synainetika h eklogh ayth kai apotelei thn kalyterh proypoqesh gia thn epityxh askhsh twn kaqhkontwn toy kai kata th nea qhteia toy. Niwqoyme idiaiterh ikanopoihsh osoi diatypwsame, egkairws, thn protash gia thn epaneklogh toy k. Stefanopoyloy kai aisqanomaste dikaiwmenoi giati h protash ayth egine apodekth, me apotelesma h ellhnikh dhmokratia shmera @mporoyme na to poyme ayto- na exei timhqei me ayth thn eklogikh diadikasia anadeijhs Proedroy Dhmokratias, wste telikws h ellhnikh dhmokratia na einai ayth h opoia qa yphrethqei akomh kalytera apo ton Proedro ths Dhmokratias kai ta politika kommata.

Ayth th stigmh, epishs, qewrw anagkaio na ekfrasw thn timh kai to sebasmo mas sto proswpo toy Lewnida Kyrkoy, enos koryfaioy ths ellhnikhs politikhs zwhs.

To deytero sxolio afora thn episkech poy dexthka shmera toy k. Nikoy Kwnstantopoyloy, Proedroy toy Synaspismoy, o opoios moy eqese qemata poy aforoyn ta programmata ths ERT kai qemata sxetika me thn paroysia kai probolh twn drasthriothtwn twn kommatwn, kata thn proeklogikh periodo. Qa hqela na pw, en eidei apanthsews, oti h ERT einai aytonomos organismos, ena aytoteles MME. Den mporei na einai kybernhtikh, den mporei na einai diakommatikh. H ERT antapokrinetai perissotero apo ikanopoihtika sthn epitagh toy Syntagmatos kai twn nomwn gia ployralistikh enhmerwsh. Pisteyw oti h enorxhstrwmenh epiqesh poy dexetai h ERT apo kommata ths antipoliteyshs einai pantelws adikaiologhth. Ayto ginetai gia logoys poy exoyn sxesh eite me th diaqesh na askhqei piesh sthn ERT, eite me thn epidiwjh na apajiwqei h ERT, wste na mhn parakoloyqoyntai ta programmata ths. Kai stis dyo periptwseis prosferoyn kakh yphresia -oxi sthn ERT, alla sth dhmokratia- osoi diatypwnoyn tetoioy eidoys adikaiologhtes aitiaseis kai kritikes, afoy h ERT, kata koinh omologia kai apodoxh, einai to MME poy ston plhrestero baqmo antapokrinetai stis ypoxrewseis toy gia ployralistikh kai polyfwnikh enhmerwsh twn politwn.

Oson afora ta qemata poy aforoyn th diakommatikh epitroph poy leitoyrgei pleon, xwris na anamenoyme kai thn epishmh enarjh ths proeklogikhs periodoy, se aythn oi ekproswpoi twn kommatwn diatypwnoyn tis apoceis toys gia th xrhmatodothsh kommatwn kai ypochfiwn, kaqws kai gia to xrono kai ton tropo probolhs twn drasthriothtwn twn kommatwn, mesw twn hlektronikwn, idiaiterws, MME. Ayto to opoio prepei na einai safes einai toyto: Oi ryqmiseis poy isxysan sto parelqon, se prosfates eklogikes anametrhseis, edwsan mia ikanopoihtikh lysh se sxetika problhmata. H proseggish mas exei stoxo th beltiwsh se tomeis opoy einai aparaithth ayth h beltiwsh. Epidiwkoyme th synainetikh proseggish kai th lysh twn sxetikwn problhmatwn poy anadeixqhkan xarh sthn peira poy exoyme apokomisei apo prohgoymenes eklogikes diadikasies. Bebaiws, pantote sto plaisio ths -kat` analogia isothtas- probolhs twn kommatwn kai ths diaxeirishs apo thn pleyra twn hlektronikwn MME twn ekpompwn toys gia thn probolh kommatwn kai ypochfiwn me tetoio tropo, wste na apofeygontai oi apokleismoi kai oi merolhptikes, kai ara oxi oydeteres, epiloges. Ayta, omws, epanalambanw einai qemata ta opoia syzhtoyntai twra. Ayto deixnei thn eyaisqhsia ths kybernhshs poy proxwrhse sth sygkrothsh ths diakommatikhs epitrophs prin kan anakoinwqei h epilogh gia th diejagwgh eklogwn stis 9 Aprilioy.

Kleinw to sxolio moy ayto, kanontas safes oti h kybernhsh diaqetei th dhmokratikh nomimopoihsh. Qa askhsei plhrws ta kaqhkonta ths, symfwna me ta osa problepoyn to Syntagma kai oi nomoi. Den einai dynaton na amfisbhtoyntai h ypoxrewsh kai h armodiothta mas se tomeis poy exoyn sxesh me th drasthriothta ths kybernhshs kai twn politikwn kommatwn, mono kai mono ek toy logoy oti gnwrizoyme pote akribws qa diejaxqoyn oi ekloges. To Syntagma kai oi nomoi qa ginoyn apo emas apolytws sebastoi. To idio kaloyme na prajoyn kai ta alla kommata.

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

KARELIAS: O Proedros ths Dhmokratias xqes, ama th eklogh toy, dhlwse emmesws plhn safws, oti qa epiqymoyse na allajei to Syntagma, wste na exei perissoteres armodiothtes. Qelw na sas erwthsw dyo pragmata: Prwton, ean eixe proideasei ton Prwqypoyrgo gi ayth thn epiqymia toy se epaneilhmmenes synanthseis poy eixan mexri twra kai deyteron, anejarthtws aytoy, ean eseis, ws kybernhsh endexomenws ayrio h ws komma exete kata noy na proxwrhsete pros ayth thn kateyqynsh, thn anaqewrhsh toy Syntagmatos, dedomenoy oti to diko sas komma ekane th sygkekrimenh anaqewrhsh prin apo 15 xronia;

REPPAS: Prwton, gnwrizete oti den sxoliazoyme dhlwseis toy Proedroy ths Dhmokratias. Deyteron, qemata ta opoia aforoyn thn anadiatajh ryqmisewn toy Syntagmatos qa antimetwpistoyn kata th qhteia ths epomenhs Boylhs kai sto plaisio poy apofasise h paroysa Boylh. Einai qemata ta opoia, opws gnwrizete poly kala, syzhthqhkan sthn armodia epitroph kai epi twn opoiwn exoyn lhfqei, meta apo chfofories, sxetikes apofaseis. Telos, to Syntagma orizei to xarakthra toy politeymatos sth xwra mas, opws epishs oti basikes, qemeliwdeis diatajeis toy Syntagmatos den ypokeintai se anaqewrhsh. Ara, loipon, ta sxetika qemata qa antimetwpistoyn apo thn epomenh Boylh, symfwna me to plaisio poy h paroysa Boylh exei me chfofories apofasisei. H diadikasia ayth qa oloklhrwqei symfwna me osa problepoyn to Syntagma kai o Kanonismos ths Boylhs. H fysiognwmia, o xarakthras toy politeymatos mas paramenei ws exei.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Epeidh anaferqhkate ston thleoptiko xrono kai ta sxetika, qa hqela na sas rwthsw an anamenetai se ayth thn eklogikh anametrhsh kapoia thleoptikh monomaxia twn politikwn arxhgwn. Kai gia na ginw pio safhs, epeidh o Prwqypoyrgos stis eyrwekloges eixe qesei kapoioys oroys gia ton thleoptiko dialogo, exei thn idia proqesh kai gia tis ekloges poy erxontai;

REPPAS: Sto plaisio ths enhmerwshs twn politwn gia tis drasthriothtes twn kommatwn qa prepei na doqei h dynatothta sta kommata kai toys ypochfioys na paroysiasoyn ta programmata kai tis qeseis toys. Ayto einai poy epiqymoyme, giati pisteyoyme apolytws oti ws kybernhsh exoyme ergo na paroysiasoyme pros ton ellhniko lao, alla epishs pisteyoyme oti diaqetoyme plhres programma gia thn antimetwpish twn problhmatwn poy apasxoloyn th xwra kai toys polites, kati poy den symbainei me ta kommata ths antipoliteyshs. Sto plaisio aytwn twn eklogwn epiqymoyme th diejagwgh kai syzhthshs metajy twn politikwn arxhgwn, toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai toy Arxhgoy ths Ajiwmatikhs Antipoliteyshs. H syzhthsh ayth prepei na ginei symfwna me toys kanones poy isxyoyn dieqnws, prokeimenoy na einai mia oysiastikh, gonimh antiparaqesh idewn kai apocewn, alla kai paraqesh qetikwn protasewn kai programmatwn, pragma to opoio endiaferei toys polites. Den prepei na metatrapei se mia monomaxia agonh, giati h Ellada den exei anagkh apo monomaxoys. H Ellada exei anagkh apo ergates poy maxontai gia thn antimetwpish twn problhmatwn poy apasxoloyn toys polites. Pisteyoyme, loipon, oti qa ginei dektos aytos o kanonas poy isxyei dieqnws, gia to pws diejagontai aytoy toy eidoys oi syzhthseis. Se ola ta eyrwpaika krath yparxei megalh empeiria. H dikh mas empeiria proerxetai mono apo tis ekloges toy 1996. Pisteyoyme oti ayto to montelo syzhthshs mporei na epanalhfqei.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Epeidh to 1996 parakoloyqhsame enan parallhlo dialogo, qa hqela na sas rwthsw an yparxei proqesh, ek meroys toy Prwqypoyrgoy, na ginei apeyqeias dialogos;

REPPAS: Ta qemata ta opoia tiqentai, sto plaisio aytwn twn thleoptikwn programmatwn, einai ayta ta opoia apasxoloyn toys polites, thn koinh gnwmh. Sto plaisio aytwn twn programmatwn osoi pairnoyn meros stis syzhthseis ekfrazoyn tis apoceis toys, diatypwnoyn tis protaseis toys. Ayto epiqymoyme na ginei kai sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh. Ayto poy den apotelei epilogh mas einai @kai to tonizw ayto- mia xwris oysiastiko periexomeno -kai xwris, telikws, endiaferon, para mono gia thn paragwgh isws feygalewn kai efhmerwn entypwsewn- syzhthsh h opoia den paragei kanena wfelimo apotelesma. Epiqymoyme ayto to legomeno debate na to doyme na ginetai gia na syzhthqoyn ta megala qemata poy apasxoloyn th xwra. H syzhthsh ayth, opws oles oi syzhthseis, prepei na ginei me bash sygkekrimenoys kanones. Oxi kanones toys opoioys anakalycame twra, alla kanones poy isxyoyn epi polla xronia se oles tis xwres ths Eyrwphs kai se oles tis koinoboyleytikes dhmokraties.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Milhsate gia kanones. Toys kanones aytoys, an den kanw laqos, toys qetei h pleyra toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai nomizw oti den symbainei stis alles xwres ayto poy synebh edw to 1996. An katalaba, omws, kala epimenei h kybernhsh oti qa isxysei dialogos mono me toys oroys kai tis proypoqeseis toy 1996.

REPPAS: Den yparxoyn oroi kai proypoqeseis. Yparxoyn kanones poy isxyoyn dieqnws. Den prokeitai peri ellhnikhs prwtotypias. Oi kanones aytoi efarmozontai apo to 1996 kai epiqymoyme ena neo kyklo tetoioy dialogoy, mia epanalhch aytoy toy monteloy.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Parallhloi dialogoi;

REPPAS: Den yparxoyn parallhloi dialogoi, alla en pash periptwsei epiqymoyme mia syzhthsh kata thn opoia qa doqei h dynatothta stoys symmetexontes na anaptyjoyn tis apoceis toys. Ayto epiqymoyme.

KAPRANOS: Einai polla politika kommata, den einai monon oi dyo arxhgoi. Jekinate apo thn afethria me toys dyo politikoys arxhgoys. Giati monon aytoi oi dyo kai oxi pente;

REPPAS: Oydeis mporei na ypoxrewsei opoiondhpote na syzhthsei, epeidh kapoios allos to epiqymei. Kaqe politikos arxhgos, sto plaisio toy politikoy sxediasmoy, toy dikoy toy h toy kommatos toy, qa epilejei me poion tropo qa einai parwn stis proeklogikes syzhthseis.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Den yparxei kanenas kindynos, politismenoi anqrwpoi einai oi politikoi kai mporoyn na kanoyn ena dialogo@

REPPAS: Asfalws den yparxei kanenas kindynos. Kai epeidh akribws oi Ellhnes politikoi einai politismenoi anqrwpoi @kata th dikh sas frash- pisteyoyme oti den yparxei kanena problhma na ginei mia tetoia syzhthsh me aytoys toys kanones gia toys opoioys ews twra milame.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Milhsate, omws, gia gonimo kai oysiastiko dialogo. Den nomizw oti prepei na mpei se kaloypi aytos o dialogos.

REPPAS: Oydeis qelei na periorisei opoiondhpote allon, alla gnwrizete poly kala oti ta panta sth zwh mas diepontai apo arxes, apo kanones. Kai h syzhthsh poy kanoyme edw ypakoyei se kapoioys kanones. Den einai mia anarxh syzhthsh. Analogoi kanones prepei na epikrathsoyn kai se tetoioy eidoys syzhthseis. Peri aytoy omiloyme. Den milame gia periorismo h logokrisia.

I. KAMPOYRAKHS: Ti kanei thn kybernhsh na pisteyei oti mia apeyqeias syzhthsh anamesa ston k. Karamanlh kai ton k. Shmith qa odhghqei se adiejodo;

REPPAS: Prwta ap ola, gnwrizete poly kala, mias kai polloi apo esas epikaleiste tis metrhseis, oti o Prwqypoyrgos yperexei syntriptika se oloys toys tomeis stoys opoioys kapoioi ton kaloyn na sygkriqei me ton k. Karamanlh. Ayto to anaferw parempiptontws. Omws, ayto poy exei shmasia -epeidh emeis den dinoyme maxes opisqofylakhs, alla maxes emprosqofylakhs kai maxes gia to mellon- einai o Prwqypoyrgos, opws kai ola ta stelexh mas, na einai parwn se syzhthseis opoy qa doqei h dynatothta na problhqoyn idees kai apoceis, na enhmerwqoyn oi polites. Kai, kyriws, oi polites na gnwrizoyn poio einai to programma kai oi lyseis poy proteinoyn oi politikoi arxhgoi h oi ekproswpoi twn kommatwn gia ta qemata ths epomenhs periodoy.

I. KAMPOYRAKHS: Dhladh, apokleietai mia apeyqeias syzhthsh;

REPPAS: Ma, apeyqeias qa einai h syzhthsh. Ekeinh thn wra qa ginei metajy twn dyo politikwn arxhgwn, me syntonistes dhmosiografoys, oi opoioi qa exoyn epifortistei me ayto to kaqhkon ths organwshs ayths ths syzhthshs.

I. KAMPOYRAKHS: To 1996 den syzhtoysan metajy toys.

REPPAS: H syzhthsh toy 1996 htan kat` analogia toy monteloy poy akoloyqhqhke se alles xwres ths Eyrwphs. Mhn epimenete ws pros ayto.

KANELLOPOYLOS: H syntriptikh yperoxh toy k. Shmith, sthn opoia anaferqhkate, den toy dinei ena pleonekthma gia ena tetoio thleoptiko dialogo;

REPPAS: Bebaiws, toy dinei polla pleonekthmata. Alla, epanalambanw, oti o Prwqypoyrgos den qelei mia eykolh nikh apenanti ston k. Karamanlh. Epiqymei mia dyskolh nikh, antimetwpizontas, lynontas kai ypernikwntas ta problhmata poy apasxoloyn th xwra. Ayto epidiwkoyn o k. Shmiths, h kybernhsh mas kai to PASOK. Aytos einai o stoxos kai o prosanatolismos mas.

FILHS: Wspoy na ginei ayth h ek toy syneggys synomilia kai wspoy na dialyqei h Boylh stis 14 Martioy, mesolabei ena megalo diasthma, to opoio einai proeklogiko diasthma, einai proeklogikh periodos. Apo shmera mexri tis 14 Martioy qa yparjoyn metra, estw analogikhs ekproswphshs twn politikwn kommatwn, sthn thleorash kai ola ta alla ta opoia problepontai meta tis 14 Martioy;

REPPAS: Sto eisagwgiko sxolio moy, exw apanthsei prokatabolikws kai se tetoia erwthmata. Den amfisbhtei kaneis th dhmokratikh nomimopoihsh ths kybernhshs, h opoia qa synexisei na askei ta kaqhkonta ths, ws kybernhsh toy topoy se oloys toys tomeis, mexri ekeinh thn wra poy -opws problepoyn to Syntagma kai oi nomoi- prokhryssontai epishmws oi ekloges kai akoloyqoyntai, se diafores periptwseis, analoges diadikasies. Apo kei kai pera, h eyaisqhsia mas apodeiknyetai me to oti -epanalambanw- systhqhke h Diakommatikh Epitroph kai prosklhqhkan oi ekproswpoi twn kommatwn, na symmetexoyn se ayth, prin anakoinwqei h prosfygh stis ekloges. Systhqhke egkairws ayth h epitroph gia na syzhthsei sxetika qemata. Efoson, prokycoyn symfwnies, mporoyn bebaiws na syzhthsoyn kai to plaisio, mesa sto opoio qa klhqoyn kai ta MME kai oloi oi paragontes ths dhmosias zwhs, symmorfoymenoi na kinhqoyn.

Me thn eykairia qelw na epanalabw kati poy eipa kai se alles periptwseis: Oti den einai dynaton, olh ayth h syzhthsh gia thn proeklogikh politikh drasthriothta, na periorizetai se qemata poy aforoyn thn probolh twn kommatwn, mesw twn hlektronikwn Meswn Enhmerwshs. Giati -epanalambanw- kaqe komma ekponei to diko toy politiko sxediasmo, sto plaisio toy opoioy qetei tis dikes toy diaforetikes proteraiothtes. Emeis mporei na epilejoyme, gia logoys antikeimenikwn dyskoliwn, na eimaste parontes proballontas to ergo mas mesw diafhmistikwn programmatwn kai syzhthsewn, epeidh o Prwqypoyrgos logw twn kaqhkontwn toy den exei th dynatothta na kanei periodeies se diafores perioxes ths xwras, opws mporei na kanei o k. Karamanlhs h oi alloi politikoi ths xwras. Gnwrizete poly kala oti kai oi sygkentrwseis aytes, sto plaisio twn periodeiwn ana thn Ellada, synepagontai ena kostos, to opoio den einai panta metrhsimo. Antiqeta, h dapanh ths probolhs twn drasthriothtwn, mesw twn hlektronikwn Meswn Enhmerwshs, einai h pleon diafanhs diadikasia, giati gnwrizoyme th diarkeia ths probolhs kai mporoyme na apotimhsoyme to kostos ths. Epishs, oi alloi politikoi arxhgoi exoyn th dynatothta na einai parontes se diafores ekdhlwseis, opoy adynatei na paristatai o Prwqypoyrgos h epilegoyn na kosmoyn ejwfylla periodikwn h na symmetexoyn se ekpompes koinwnikoy xarakthra h alles, stis opoies o Prwqypoyrgos mporei, gia logoys dikoys toy sxediasmoy, na mhn epiqymei na labei meros. Kai omws, ola ayta synistoyn, emmesws alla safws, probolh enos kommatos h enos politikoy kai etsi synistoyn politikh diafhmish. Den qa prepei, loipon, na dhmioyrghsoyme ena asfyktiko periorismo kai emeis oi idioi na qesoyme tis idies proteraiothtes gia ola ta kommata. Kaqe komma exei th dikh toy proteraiothta, sto plaisio toy dikoy toy politikoy sxediasmoy. Ayto einai safes.

FILHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, einai ontws qema hqoys kai yfoys kaqe kommatos na phgainei sta ``skyladika'' h opoy qelei gia na kanei thn proeklogikh ekstrateia. Se ayto symfwnoyme.

REPPAS: @h na phgainei sta diafora mparakia kaqe brady@

FILHS: Bebaiws.

REPPAS: @h na jhmerwnetai ekei o kaqe neos, o opoios exei th dynatothta na cyxagwgeitai. Diko toy dikaiwma. Ayto einai agaqo ths dhmokratias mas. Kai apo kei kai pera, omws, den mporei na metaballetai se timhth kai khnsora olwn twn allwn@

FILHS: Entajei.

REPPAS: @ giati exei perissecei h ypokrisia se ayto ton topo. Elpizw na mh mas kataklysei thn proeklogikh periodo analogh ypokrisia.

FILHS: Allo sas rwthsa. Oxi an qa apagoreysoyme stoys anqrwpoys na phgainoyn sta oyzeri h ta nyxterina kentra @@@@@@..

REPPAS: Symfwnw apolyta mazi sas. Ayto poy den prepei na kanoyme einai na to proslambanoyme ayto ws politikh drasthriothta.

FILHS: Na oloklhrwsw, k. Ypoyrge, giati den moy apanthsate@

REPPAS: Apanthsa. Aplws, den phrate thn apanthsh poy sas aresei.

FILHS: Erwtw: Apo twra mexri tis 14 Martioy, poy qa dialyqei h Boylh, qa yparjoyn symfwnhmena metra anamesa sthn kybernhsh kai ta politika kommata, wste na mhn dhmioyrgoyntai ta problhmata poy dhmioyrgoyntai, symfwna me tis apoceis twn politikwn poy einai sthn Antipoliteysh, sta MME.

REPPAS: Sas eipa oti syzhta h Diakommatikh Epitroph. Kai me kaleite emena na apanthsw ean, mexri mia orismenh hmeromhnia, qa yparjoyn symfwnhmena metra. Den gnwrizw poia qesh qa exoyn oi ekproswpoi twn allwn kommatwn sto plaisio ayths ths syzhthshs. Den gnwrizw ean qa yparjei symfwnia. H kybernhsh qa ypobalei ekei tis apoceis ths. Den gnwrizw ean qa symfwnhsoyn oi ekproswpoi twn allwn kommatwn. Qelete na prokatalabw tis qeseis twn ekproswpwn twn kommatwn sto plaisio ths Diakommatikhs; Ayto me kaleite na kanw;

FILHS: Oxi, k. Ypoyrge. Eixate ton k. Kwnstantopoyle poy sas eipe ayta poy sas eipe. Ti apanthsate eseis; Yparxei ena problhma poy afora thn proeklogikh periodo apo shmera mexri tis 14 Martioy. Se ayth thn periodo, h kybernhsh protiqetai na syzhthsei me ta politika kommata sygkekrimenoys desmeytikoys oroys isotimhs paroysias twn politikwn kommatwn;

REPPAS: H kybernhsh syzhta me toys ekproswpoys twn kommatwn kai h eyaisqhsia ths kybernhshs apodeiknyetai apo to oti sygkrothqhke h Diakommatikh Epitroph, poly prin anakoinwqei h diejagwgh eklogwn. Ayto to tonizw giati exei th shmasia toy. Oi prosklhseis pros toys politikoys arxhgoys na orisoyn ekproswpoys, eixan apeyqynqei apo thn armodia Ypoyrgo, prin apo ta Xristoygenna. Kai ayto, epeidh akribws anagnwrizoyme oti yparxoyn qemata, gia ta opoia prepei na proxwrhsoyme se desmeytikes ryqmiseis. Einai qema twn idiwn twn kommatwn kai twn ekproswpwn toys na odhghqoyn se mia symfwnia, meta apo aytes tis syzhthseis. Einai kati poy den to gnwrizw ayth th stigmh. An prokycoyn apotelesmata, sto plaisio ayths ths syzhthshs, mporoyme na gnwrizoyme kai poio qa einai to plaisio to opoio qa akoloyqhqei. Einai qema twn kommatwn na laboyn tis sxetikes apofaseis. Ayto, omws, den prepei na odhgei sto symperasma oti h kybernhsh -poy exei dedomenh th dhmokratikh nomimopoihsh ths- qa paysei na askei ta kaqhkonta ths. Oson afora twra, thn isotimh probolh twn politikwn kommatwn einai kati to opoio apotelei qemeliwdes stoixeio deontologias gia ola ta hlektronika Mesa Enhmerwshs. Einai, omws, ki ayto kati gia opoio kai pali den eimai armodios na apanthsw. Opoios exei kati diaforetiko na isxyristei h na diatypwsei kathgories yparxoyn armodia organa, ta opoia qa epilhfqoyn. As asxolhqei to ESR, meta apo sxetikh kataggelia, gia to oti ena hlektroniko Meso Enhmerwshs den antapokriqhke se ayto poy apotelei syntagmatikh epitagh.

FILHS: Ayrio, qa asxolhqei me ayto to qema to ESR;

REPPAS: Den to gnwrizw.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Qelw na epanelqw sto prohgoymeno qema. Giati o Prwqypoyrgos fobatai ton apeyqeias dialogo;

REPPAS: Prepei na kanw mia diastolh metajy erwthsewn kai fantasiwsewn. An qelete na kanete erwthsh, parakalw na kanete, alla tis fantasiwdeis sas mhn tis kanete erwthsh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Giati fobatai o Prwqypoyrgos ton apeyqeias dialogo;

REPPAS: Tetoio qema den yfistatai kai ayto exei apodeixqei. O Prwqypoyrgos einai parwn kai me toys logoys toy kai me to ergo toy. Yperexei, opws oloi to anagnwrizoyn, kai gi ayto einai Prwqypoyrgos.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ki egw to anagnwrizw.

REPPAS: Bebaiws, to anagnwrizete giati den mporeite na kanete alliws. Ellhnas eiste, s` ayth th xwra zeite, gnwrizete poio einai to symferon sas: Na exete Prwqypoyrgo ton Kwnstantino Shmith, sas symferei ki esas. Den zeite ektos Elladas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Giati den ton dexetai, loipon;

REPPAS: Apanthsame se ayta.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Lew, giati den ton dexetai;

REPPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos einai politikos me arxes kai epiqymei na yparxoyn kanones sth dhmosia zwh ths xwras kai se oles tis epimeroys ekfanseis toys.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Otan qa ginei ayth h syzhthsh, toys dhmosiografoys qa toys epilejei h ESHEA h to Majimoy;

REPPAS: Oi dhmosiografoi pantote -kai ypotimate toys dhmosiografoys otan milate me ayto ton apajiwtiko tropo- epilegontai meta apo synennohsh twn endiaferomenwn. Kai bebaiws, emeis eimaste sth diaqesh ths ESHEA na kanei tis protaseis ths. Alla, gnwrizete oti oi dhmosiografoi einai, se aytes tis periptwseis, koinhs apodoxhs.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Qa toys epilejei h ESHEA k. Ypoyrge;

REPPAS: Apanthsa s` ayto. Oydepote gia tetoioy eidoys syzhthseis, dhmioyrghqhke problhma. Eqese kapoios qema dhmosiografwn;

BITALHS: To 1996@

REPPAS: Ti egine to 1996;

BITALHS: Den htan to qema ths epiloghs twn dhmosiografwn poy qa symmeteixan sto debate;

REPPAS: Den htan koinhs apodoxhs oi dhmosiografoi poy epeleghsan; Ti egine; Peite moy.

BITALHS: To qema einai, an qelei na symmetasxei se ayto to debate, enas dhmosiografos poy isws den qewreitai koinhs apodoxhs. Den mporw na katalabw ti shmainei ``koinhs apodoxhs'', giati na einai o enas kai na mhn einai o allos. Qymaste to debate poy egine to 1996 kai qymaste th synqesh twn dhmosiografwn. Ajioi kai wraioi oi synadelfoi@

REPPAS: Den mporw na katalabw poio qema qetete.

BITALHS: An ginei to debate, poios telika qa einai aytos, o foreas h to proswpo poy qa epilejei poioi dhmosiografoi kai poia Mesa qa ekproswphqoyn se ayto to debate;

REPPAS: Qa isxysei kai edw, giati yparxoyn kanones oi opoioi exoyn kaqierwqei, o,ti egine kai stis prohgoymenes periptwseis, opoy den dhmioyrghqhke kanena problhma.

BITALHS: Na to pw alliws: Dhladh, dhmosiografoi apo thn ``AYGH'', thn ``APOGEYMATINH'', th ``BRADYNH'', ton ``Eleyqero Typo'', to ``Rizospasth'', qa symmetexoyn sto debate;

REPPAS: Mporei na symmetexoyn.

BITALHS: Poios qa to krinei ayto;

REPPAS: Pantws, den qa to krinw egw, oyte h kybernhsh. Qa to krinoyn aytoi oi opoioi symmetexoyn, kaqws kai ta Mesa poy filojenoyn aytes tis syzhthseis.

BITALHS: To debate, qa doqei sthn ERT, k. Ekproswpe;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw an qa einai ena debate, to opoio qa metadoqei se eqniko diktyo kai ara, mporei na filojenhqei stoys xwroys ths ERT, opoy den qa symmetexoyn mono dhmosiografoi poy apasxoloyntai sthn Ellhnikh Radiofwnia-Thleorash. Alla, se oles tis periptwseis, qa akoloyqhqoyn kapoioi basikoi kanones poy exoyn apodwsei. Oses fores dokimasthkan sto parelqon, exoyn apodwsei.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Eipate prohgoymenws, oti o Prwqypoyrgos exei arxes. Amfisbhteite, dhladh, oti oi alloi politikoi arxhgoi den exoyn arxes;

REPPAS: Giati skefteste etsi;

KANELLOPOYLOS: Tonisate oti o Prwqypoyrgos exei arxes gia ton thleoptiko dialogo.

REPPAS: Eseis to eipate, eseis to skefqhkate. Egw den eqesa tetoio qema.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Eseis milhsate.

REPPAS: Den eipa kati tetoio. Milhsa gia ton Prwqypoyrgo, den eqesa qema gia allon politiko arxhgo. Asfalws, oi politikoi arxhgoi exoyn thn ajia toys. Gi` ayto einai kai politikoi arxhgoi.

XRYSOSTOMIDHS: Einai gegonos oti dhlwseis poy eginan peri ``katadikwn kai ypodikwn'' -anaferomai ston k. Pagkalo kai ston k. Mpantoyba- dinoyn mia arnhtikh eikona stoys omogeneis. Mexri pote qa meinei anoikth h ypochfiothta toy k. Mpantoyba;

REPPAS: Einai qema poy antimetwpizoyn ta organa toy Kinhmatos, den einai qema ths kybernhshs. Apo ekei kai pera, den pisteyw oti oi omogeneis epiqymoyn na epibaloyn periorismoys ston tropo me ton opoio miloyn gia diafora qemata oi politikoi ekproswpoi toys, oi Ellhnes boyleytes.

KAPPOS: Pera apo qesmika kai se o,ti afora thn isotimh paroysia twn kommatwn, anaferqhkate sthn epikoinwniakh politikh toy PASOK, enocei twn eklogwn. Sth diafhmistikh toy ekstrateia yparxei ena filmaki poy paroysiazei mia eksygxronismenh Ellada. Yparxei kai h allh Ellada. H kybernhsh prokeitai na analabei tis eyqynes ths apenanti se ayth thn allh Ellada;

REPPAS: Stis kataxwrhseis paroysiazetai to synolo ths xwras mas. Olos o ellhnikos laos mporei na dei ena kommati ths dikhs toy zwhs se ayta ta diafhmistika programmata. Apo ekei kai pera, yparxoyn problhmata se ayth th xwra, yparxoyn anoikta metwpa ta opoia mas apasxoloyn. Exoyme epignwsh aytwn twn problhmatwn kai parexoyme oles tis eggyhseis, ws pio etoimoi kai ikanoi na dwsoyme lyseis kai se ayta ta problhmata. Giati h ajiopistia poy exoyme kerdisei, enanti toy ellhnikoy laoy, me to ergo poy exoyme dhmioyrghsei mexri twra, apotelei thn kalyterh eggyhsh oti mporoyme kai sto mellon na antimetwpisoyme problhmata poy shmera einai alyta. Exoyme epignwsh aytwn twn problhmatwn. Emeis milame gia ayta ta problhmata, den prospaqoyme na paraplanhsoyme toys polites, oyte me efeyrhmata kai epikoinwniaka texnasmata, oyte me to na milame gia qemata sygkekrimena kai mono gi` ayta. Milame gia ola ta qemata, giati eytyxws eimaste kybernhsh gi` ayto ton topo. Mia kybernhsh den mporei na apofygei na asxolhqei me opoiodhpote qema. Qa asxolhqei me ola ta qemata. Ayth einai h megalh proklhsh gia mas. Ola ta qemata einai sthn atzenta mas, ola ta qemata einai sth ``bitrina''. O ellhnikos laos mporei na parakoloyqhsei se ayth thn proeklogikh ``bitrina'' ta panta poy aforoyn to kaqe komma kai thn kybernhsh.

MIXAHL: Me poion tropo qa elegxqoyn ta kommata kai oi ypochfioi gia ta osa qa dapanhsoyn apo shmera mexri thn epishmh hmera prokhryjhs twn eklogwn;

REPPAS: Ayta einai qemata ta opoia apasxoloyn th Diakommatikh Epitroph. An diatypwqoyn protaseis oi opoies pragmatika exoyn endiaferon, einai ajiopoihsimes kai mporei na tyxoyn praktikhs efarmoghs, na eiste sigoyros oti prwtoi emeis qa tis yioqethsoyme.

MIXAHL: Otan prokhryxqei h proeklogikh periodos, h Diakommatikh Epitroph pragmati epilambanetai olwn twn qematwn poy aforoyn ton proeklogiko agwna. Apo twra kai mexri na prokhryxqoyn epishmws oi ekloges kai na leitoyrghsei h Diakommatikh Epitroph, qa ginoyn kapoies dapanes. Oxi apokleistika kai mono apo ta kommata@

REPPAS: Ma, etsi ki alliws, briskomaste se proeklogikh xronia. Dhladh, an oi ekloges ginontan to Septembrio, mia kaqorismenh hmeromhnia, epeidh qa jerame oti tote qa ginoyn oi ekloges, mexri tote, ti to diaforetiko qa eprepe na ginei; H isotimh probolh twn kommatwn, o ployralismos sthn enhmerwsh, h anadeijh olwn twn qesewn, apotelei stoixeio to opoio prepei pantote na pairnoyn ypoch toys ta MME otan proballoyn tis drasthriothtes politikwn kai ekproswpwn toy kommatwn. Den einai kati to opoio isxyei mono kata thn proeklogikh periodo. Einai kanonas o opoios desmeyei oloys, diarkws.

MIXAHL: Opws gnwrizete kalytera isws apo mena, yparxei orio stis dapanes kai twn ypochfiwn kai twn kommatwn. An ginontan, loipon, oi ekloges kanonika stis 26 Septembrioy kai kapoio komma h ypochfios apo twra ekane ayth th dapanh, poios qa ton elegxe kai me poion tropo; Ayto caxnw na brw.

REPPAS: H dapanh poy egine perysi h propersi, epeidh akribws einai mia dapanh h opoia egine gia mia drasthriothta enos politikoy h enos kommatos poy exei stoxo na probalei h ton enan h to allon, den elegxetai synexws; To idio qa ginei kai sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh. Yparxei elegxos, yparxoyn diadikasies. An xreiazontai beltiwseis, ayto qa prepei na to kanoyme.

FILHS: Yperamynqhkate twn politikwn diafhmisewn@

REPPAS: Den yperamynqhka twn politikwn diafhmisewn. Yperamynqhka ths eleyqerias poy prepei na exei to kaqe komma, sto plaisio toy politikoy sxediasmoy toy, na epilejei pws na proballei tis drasthriothtes toy.

FILHS: Symperilambanomenwn kai twn politikwn diafhmisewn.

REPPAS: Einai kai aytos enas tropos.

FILHS: Qa exete akoysei mia kritikh poy askeitai, kai den qelw na balw qema marketing, an oi ekloges qa prepei na ginontai me marketing h oxi, alla kati pio aplo: Oti sthn oysia, prokeitai gia diejagwgh twn eklogwn me toys oroys ths agoras. Ta ploysia kommata dinoyn xrhmata sthn thleorash kai polloi lene oti ta xrhmata ayta prokyptoyn apo adiafaneis sxeseis twn megalwn kommatwn, apo diaforoys ejwterikoys paragontes. Pws apantate se ayth thn kritikh, poy den einai aplws h kritikh enos politikoy kommatos, einai mia aisqhsh twn politwn: Oti ta kommata pairnoyn xrhmata apo ejwterikoys paragontes kai twra, me thn politikh diafhmish, dinoyn ena meros twn xrhmatwn poy phran stoys idioys. Sta diaplekomena, dhladh.

REPPAS: Kalo einai na mh zoyme me mia diaxyth kaxypocia h opoia den exei antikrisma alhqeias. Diatypwnontai kathgories kata tropo atekmhriwto, pragma to opoio odhgei se mia genikeymenh sygxysh pros blabh toy politikoy systhmatos, twn politikwn kommatwn kai telikws, ayths ths idias ths Dhmokratias. Gnwrizete poly kala oti yparxei anwtato orio, to legomeno ``plafon'' dapanwn. Entos twn oriwn aytwn prepei na kinhqoyn ola ta kommata, symperilambanomenoy kai toy kybernhtikoy. Yparxoyn diadikasies kai organa me analogh armodiothta poy elegxoyn an throyntai ayta ta oria. Ta kommata den yperbainoyn ayto to orio. Apo ekei kai pera, kaqe komma exei drasthriothtes poy to odhgoyn na proballetai, sto plaisio twn dynatothtwn, me ta esoda poy exei. Emeis, kata kairoys, kanoyme oikonomikes ejormhseis, eimaste ena komma me ekatontades xiliades melh, me ekatommyria chfoforoys. Antilambaneste oti to apotelesma mias tetoias oikonomikhs ejormhshs mporei na einai qeamatiko, se sxesh me thn oikonomikh ejormhsh enos alloy kommatos. Emeis, exoyme epilejei na mh xrhmatodotoyme, fer` eipein, thn ekdosh mias efhmeridas, opws mporei na symbainei me to Synaspismo gia thn ``AYGH'' kai to KKE gia to ``Rizospasth''. Einai dikaiwma toys. Oi efhmerides, epeidh einai Mesa poy synhqws paroysiazoyn elleimmata, xreiazontai arketa ekatommyria gia na ta kalycoyn ethsiws. Einai, omws, enas tropos paroysias kai probolhs enos kommatos, poy exei epilegei epeidh qewreitai apo to sygkekrimeno komma pio apodotikos. Dikaiwma toy. Einai ena qemito meso. Emeis, loipon, pisteyoyme oti kinoymaste sto plaisio oswn exoyn qespistei. Oydeis mporei na mas kathgorhsei gia to antiqeto. Kalo einai na apofeygetai ayth h syzhthsh, otan den yparxoyn apodeijeis h basikes endeijeis. Giati, epanalambanw, h probolh twn kommatwn apo thn thleorash, mesw diafhmistikwn mhnymatwn, einai h pleon diafanhs diadikasia: Metratai o xronos kai apotimatai se xrhma h sygkekrimenh dapanh, enw alles drasthriothtes den einai dynato na gnwrizoyme panta ti kostos synepagontai. Ayta prepei na einai apolytws safh.

FILHS: Oi statistikes sthn thleorash deixnoyn oti to PASOK einai to pio akriboplhrwmeno diafhmistika proion.

REPPAS: Kai oi episkeceis twn politikwn arxhgwn -an metrhqoyn kai odhghqoyme se sygkriseis- odhgoyn sto symperasma oti o Ellhnas Prwqypoyrgos einai o politikos poy, logw twn kaqhkontwn toy, den exei th dynatothta, kaqe Sabbatokyriako h kai se kaqhmerinh bash, na episkeptetai perioxes kai na ekfwnei logoys, opws kanoyn alloi politikoi arxhgoi. Giati, kai ayth h drasthriothta, synepagetai kostos, poly perissotero, otan mia proeklogikh sygkentrwsh, metajy twn allwn, perilambanei kai th metakinhsh xiliadwn opadwn apo polh se polh.

FILHS: Sto thleoptiko spot, den milaei o k. Shmiths, milaei o skhnoqeths.

REPPAS: Antilambaneste oti ayto symbainei se olo ton kosmo, se oles tis dhmokraties. Qelete na apotelesoyme ejairesh; O tropos me ton opoio ta kommata prospaqoyn na proseggisoyn toys polites, prepei na einai tetoios, wste na sygkinhsoyn toys polites, na prokalesoyn to endiaferon toys kai na tyxoyn ths protimhsews toys. Ola ta kommata exoyn, kaqe ena, to synqhma toy. Kai to PASOK exei ws komma to synqhma toy, kai h N.D. kai o Synaspismos.

FILHS: Kai den mporoyn na symfwnhsoyn ta kommata na mhn kanoyn thleoptikes diafhmiseis;

REPPAS: Epanalambanw, oti ayto einai qema poy apasxolei toys ekproswpoys twn kommatwn. Einai diko toys qema na to qesoyn.

FILHS: To difragko toy chfoforoy sas, qa to dinate sta diaplekomena symferonta kai stis thleoraseis;

REPPAS: Kanete laqos, giati qelete, se teleytaia analysh, na katarghsoyme -mias kai elegxontai apo ta diaplekomena, opws lete- ta hlektronika MME sthn Ellada.

FILHS: Na mhn ta plhrwnete.

REPPAS: Ayta einai ta MME sthn patrida mas kai prepei na sebastoyme th leitoyrgia toys. An ta kommata katalhjoyn se mia tetoia symfwnia, mporei na ginei kai ayto. Qa moy epitrecete na pw oti den prepei na prokatalaboyme th qesh twn kommatwn. H probolh ayth, epanalambanw, ginetai sto plaisio enos politikoy sxediasmoy, poy dinei isws probadisma se aytoy toy eidoys th diafhmistikh probolh ths drasthriothtas enos kommatos, gia logoys poy exoyn sygkekrimenh praktikh shmasia. Gi` ayto, isws, den mporei na ginei alliws. Apo ekei kai pera, epanalambanw, to pedio syzhthshs einai anoikto kai oi ekproswpoi twn kommatwn exoyn to logo.

Sas eyxaristw.

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