Greek Government Press Briefing, 99-03-08

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 8 Martioy 1999

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas kai kalh ebdomada.

* O Prwqypoyrgos episkeptetai ayth thn wra ton Proedro ths Dhmokratias, sto plaisio twn taktikwn synanthsewn toys. Stis 13.30 qa exei synergasia me to Grammatea ths K. E. toy PASOK K. Skandalidh gia qemata toy Kinhmatos en ocei toy Synedrioy. To brady qa parastei sth dejiwsh ths efhmeridas "Kaqhmerinh".

* Thn Tetarth to apogeyma qa apanthsei se erwthseis boyleytwn sthn "Wra toy Prwqypoyrgoy".

* Thn Pempth to apogeyma qa episkefqei ta Anw Liosia.

* Thn Paraskeyh, stis 10 to prwi, qa dexqei sth Boylh ekproswpoys twn syntajioyxwn kai stis 12 to meshmeri ths idias hmeras qa exei synergasia me ton Proedro ths anejarthths arxhs gia thn Prostasia twn Proswpikwn Dedomenwn K. Dafermo.

* Epishs, thn Paraskeyh qa diejaxqei syzhthsh gia th systash ths Ejetastikhs twn Pragmatwn Epitrophs.

* To Sabbato qa synedriasei, apo tis 10 to prwi ews tis 5 to apogeyma, h K. E. toy PASOK. Einai h teleytaia synedriash ths, prin apo to Synedrio, me antikeimeno ton apologismo toy ergoy ths aperxomenhs K.E.

Prepei, epishs, na sas pw oti kata th diarkeia ths ebdomadas o Prwqypoyrgos qa exei synergasia me diaforoys Ypoyrgoys gia qemata ths armodiothtas toys.

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

PARIS: H ekqesh Kwstoyla kai diafora alla stoixeia ta opoia exoyn dei mexri twra to fws ths dhmosiothtas, ligo-poly deixnoyn ti egine sthn Kenya. Ayth, loipon, h katastash deixnei an mh ti allo thn anikanothta yphresiwn, opws h EYP kai to Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn, poy xeirizontai tetoies katastaseis. Pisteyei h kybernhsh oti exei thn ikanothta na xeirizetai tetoies kriseis kai an o kosmos thn empisteyetai sto xeirismo aytwn twn krisewn;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete oti sth sygkekrimenh epixeirhsh to apotelesma htan dysmenes. Eginan polla laqh. Ayto, allwste, einai kati to opoio ki emeis exoyme anagnwrisei. Exoyn analhfqei ep` aytoy oi eyqynes. Zhthsame, prokeimenoy na dieykrinistei plhrws to pws ejelixqhke ayth h epixeirhsh, na systaqei Ejetastikh Epitroph sth Boylh, h opoia qa ekdwsei sxetiko porisma, peran twn ereynwn poy diejagoyn oi dikastikes arxes. Pisteyw oti qa prepei na synektimhqoyn ola ayta ta stoixeia, prokeimenoy na exoyme mia safh kai plhrh eikona, meta thn oloklhrwsh twn ereynwn. Mexri tote den prepei na prodikazoyme to apotelesma twn ereynwn aytwn. Oson afora to genikotero qema, poy emmesws qetete, gia tis kriseis kai thn ikanothta ths kybernhshs na tis antimetwpizei, qa moy epitrecete na kanw ena poly syntomo sxolio: Pragmati, se poly mikro xroniko diasthma ekdhlwqhkan polles kriseis sth xwra mas. To eidos, ton topo, to xrono kai ton tropo ekdhlwshs mias krishs den mporeis na ta gnwrizeis apo prin. Ayto poy exei shmasia einai na antimetwpiseis oles tis kriseis me tetoio tropo, wste h xwra na synexizei thn poreia ths, na mhn kataballetai otan brisketai apenanti se mia krish. Isa-isa, na damazei tis kriseis kai na diasfalizetai h staqerh poreia ths xwras pros to mellon. Pisteyw oti oi kriseis poy antimetwpise h kybernhsh htan idiaiteres. Isws den exoyn prohgoymeno se pyknothta, doqentos toy ligoy xronoy entos toy opoioy ekdhlwqhkan. H kybernhsh exei eggyhqei kai epitygxanei th diasfalish ths omalhs poreias ths xwras pros to mellon. Ayto shmainei pws mporoyme na milhsoyme gia mia sxetikh epityxia, oson afora thn ikanothta ths kybernhshs na antimetwpizei tetoioy eidoys fainomena. Asfalws, ta laqh poy ginontai kai ta problhmata poy ekdhlwnontai mas apasxoloyn kai bgazoyme ta symperasmata mas. Apodidontai eyqynes an kai otan yparxoyn, ekei poy yparxoyn. To oti, omws, h xwra exei staqero prosanatolismo ayto ofeiletai sthn kybernhsh h opoia eggyatai thn prooptikh ths xwras kai toy ellhnikoy laoy.

PARIS: Qa hqela na moy tekmhriwsete poy brisketai ayth h sxetikh epityxia, giati, ap` oti qymamai apo ta Imia kai se alla tetoia fainomena, poly ychla istamena proswpa "jhlwnontai", dhladh to fainomeno epanalambanetai;

REPPAS: Einai epityxia ths kybernhshs to oti exei katorqwsei na eggyhqei thn poreia ths xwras. Milhsa gi` ayto. Giati, bebaiws, enw antimetwpizoyme ola ayta ta problhmata den prepei na mas diafeygei pws oi stoxoi poy exei qesei h xwra gia to epomeno diasthma, opws einai h entajh sthn ONE, apoteloyn mia epilogh h opoia me tipota den prepei na teqei se kindyno. Pisteyoyme -gia na meinw mono se ayto to paradeigma- oti h ejelijh twn pragmatwn, me ta dysmenh apotelesmata se diafores periptwseis krisewn poy ekdhlwqhkan, epibebaiwnei ayto poy eipa: Oti, dhladh, h poreia ths xwras einai atalanteyth ws pros toys stoxoys poy exoyme qesei. Den exoyme apoprosanatolistei, den brisketai h xwra ektos troxias, kati poy qa htan poly piqano na symbei katw apo alles synqhkes. O Prwqypoyrgos, h kybernhsh, h paratajh h opoia sthrizei ayth thn kybernhsh kai o ellhnikos laos poy thn empisteyetai pisteyoyme oti mporoyn na eggyhqoyn ayth thn poreia ths xwras pros to asfales mellon ths, pros thn epiteyjh twn megalwn eqnikwn kai koinwnikwn stoxwn. Ayto, akribws, bgazw ws teliko symperasma, xwris na paragnwrizw to baros, th shmasia kai thn epidrash poy exoyn oi kriseis aytes, oi opoies kata kairoys exoyn ekdhlwqei.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, den exete akomh safh eikona gia to ti egine;

REPPAS: An eixame safh kai plhrh eikona kai prosypografame ayth thn eikona epishmws kai egkyrws den qa xreiazotan na ginoyn oi ereynes poy briskontai se ejelijh. Pisteyw oti oi ereynes einai aytes poy qa prepei na katalhjoyn sto oristiko symperasma ki emeis prepei na sebastoyme ta porismata poy qa ekdoqoyn.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ma, h kybernhsh den organwse thn epixeirhsh ayth; Giati, loipon, lete oti den exete safh eikona;

REPPAS: Epeidh, h kybernhsh gnwrizei ti einai ayto poy ekane den exei tipota na fobhqei. Gi` ayto, zhthse th systash ths Ejetastikhs Epitrophs epeidh qelei na lamcei h alhqeia. Opws gnwrizete h systash ths Ejetastikhs Epitrophs einai apotelesma prwtoboylias ths kybernhshs kai deixnei me ton kalytero tropo to endiaferon mas na diereynhqei se baqos h ypoqesh ayth mexri tis pio akraies leptomereies ths.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Afoy, loipon, o Prwqypoyrgos den eixe safh eikona tote giati ebgale toys treis ypoyrgoys;

REPPAS: Exoyme apanthsei se ayta ta qemata kai den exei kamia sxesh to ena qema me to allo. Eipa oti h kybernhsh analambanei tis politikes eyqynes, giati se politiko epipedo yparxoyn eyqynes, xwris ayto na shmainei apo thn allh oti h kybernhsh qewrei pws h ypoqesh ekleise. Yparxoyn qemata poy prepei na apotelesoyn antikeimeno aytwn twn ereynwn. Otan oloklhrwqoyn aytes oi ereynes, tote qa exoyme kai ta asfalh symperasmata.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Opws lete h kybernhsh analambanei tis eyqynes ths kai efygan oi treis ypoyrgoi. O Prwqypoyrgos analambanei tis eyqynes toy;

REPPAS: Mhn "pianeste" apo kapoies ekfraseis moy. Asfalws o Prwqypoyrgos exei milhsei sth Boylh, sth sxetikh syzhthsh, gia tis eyqynes ths kybernhshs. Ayto ta leei ola kai einai dhlwtiko ths eyaisqhsias kai ths aytognwsias poy diakrinoyn thn kybernhsh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: O idios den exei eyqynes;

REPPAS: Einai toylaxiston h 50sth fora poy qetete ayth thn erwthsh. Pisteyw oti exw apanthsei analoges fores.

FILIPPAKOPOYLOS: Xqes, o k. Tsoxatzopoylos se synenteyjh toy sto "BHMA" eipe oti an to PASOK parei ligotero apo 30% stis eyrwekloges qa teqei qema hgesias. Exete na kanete kapoio sxolio;

REPPAS: Sto plaisio twn synenteyjewn, ta kybernhtika kai kommatika stelexh ekfrazoyn tis apoceis toys. Ayto einai dikaiwma toys. Kaqenas krinei opoion pisteyei oti prepei na krinei kai aytos krinetai gia thn krish poy diatypwnei. H kybernhsh exei orizonta tetraetias. Gnwrizete poly kala oti qa kriqei synolika gia to ergo ths stis eqnikes ekloges toy 2000. Tote qa kriqei kai o Prwqypoyrgos, o opoios exei sygkekrimenh laikh entolh, apo tis ekloges toy 1996, na oloklhrwsei to kybernhtiko ergo kai na kriqei gi` ayto sto telos ths tetraetoys qhteias ths kybernhshs. Kai ayto qa ginei.

PODHMATA: Sthn ekqesh Kwstoyla poy dhmosieyqhke sta "NEA", emfanizetai, kapoia stigmh, o k. Kalenteridhs se thlefwnikh epikoinwnia me ton Arxhgo ths EYP, sthn Aqhna, na leei oti briskomaste sth mesh enos sxedioy gia thn apostaqeropoihsh ths xwras. Qa hqela na sas rwthsw, an h kybernhsh symmerizetai ayth thn ektimhsh.

REPPAS: Den qa syzhthsoyme me bash mia ekqesh, mia martyria enos paragonta, o opoios eixe sxesh me ayth thn ypoqesh. Emeis pisteyoyme oti ej antikeimenoy, h ypoqesh ayth edrase apostaqeropoihtika gia th xwra. Pisteyoyme oti diaforoi paragontes, oi opoioi exoyn emplokh s' ayth thn ypoqesh, leitoyrghsan kata tetoio tropo, wste ej antikeimenoy, akomh kai an den to hqelan, synebalan sth dhmioyrgia synqhkwn politikhs reystothtas kai astaqeias. Ayto einai kati to opoio h kybernhsh klhqhke na antimetwpisei kai pisteyoyme oti exoyme antimetwpisei ayton ton kindyno, exoyme politikh staqerothta kai synexizoyme thn poreia mas, me bash toys stoxoys poy ej arxhs exoyme ejaggeilei.

PODHMATA: Anafereste stoys xeirismoys. To erwthma moy afora thn arxikh apofash emplokhs mas sthn ypoqesh. Ejetazete, to endexomeno, thn piqanothta na yphrxe stis proqeseis orismenwn aytos o stoxos, dhladh h apostaqeropoihsh ths xwras;

REPPAS: Den dianooymai oti Ellhnes polites h paragontes ths dhmosias zwhs ths xwras mas, mporei na exoyn mia tetoia epidiwjh. Einai adianohto. Apo kei kai pera, asfalws, yparxoyn dieqnh kentra, yparxoyn paragontes, oi opoioi qa epiqymoysan na dyskolecoyn kai na yponomeysoyn thn poreia ths xwras pros to mellon, thn epiteyjh twn stoxwn poy exoyme qesei. Oi paragontes aytoi, logiko kai anamenomeno einai, an dei kaneis ta pragmata ypo to prisma twn dikwn toy symferontwn, me kaqe tropo na epidiwkoyn na mplokaroyn kai na empodisoyn ayth thn poreia ths Elladas pros toys stoxoys poy exei qesei.

SOYRMELIDHS: Den katalaba. Poies einai aytes "oi skoteines dynameis";

REPPAS: Den milhsa gia "skoteines dynameis". Milhsa gia paragontes, oi opoioi qewroyn oti to symferon toys epiballei na yponomeysoyn thn poreia ths Elladas, na dhmioyrghsoyn synqhkes astaqeias sto eswteriko ths Elladas, na apomakrynoyn thn Ellada apo thn proseggish ths stoys eyrwpaikoys stoxoys. Ayto einai kati poy mporei basima na to ypoqesei kaneis, oti kapoioi tritoi, ektos Elladas, to epidiwkoyn kai to epiqymoyn. Emeis exoyme xreos na antimetwpisoyme kaqe tetoio endexomeno, kaqe tetoia prospaqeia yponomeyshs ths poreias mas. Kai pisteyw oti h kybernhsh me epityxia to antimetwpizei.

PODHMATA: Profanws omws ayto to endexomeno, opws lete, den ektimhqhke swsta arxikws.

REPPAS: Otan syzhtoyme ek twn ysterwn gia mia ypoqesh, ths opoias gnwrizoyme thn ejelijh kai to telos, antilambaneste oti mporoyme na bgaloyme kapoia symperasmata. Ayta ta symperasmata omws, mono ws ypoqeseis mporeis na ta proseggiseis, otan jekinaei h antimetwpish mias ypoqeshs, otan ginontai oi prwtoi xeirismoi gia th diekperaiwsh ayths ths ypoqeshs. Einai teleiws diaforetikh h katastash otan exei oloklhrwqei h ypoqesh, opote, opws antilambaneste mporoyme na miloyme me megalyterh anesh kai eykolia. Alla, otan eginan aytes oi epiloges hmastan sthn arxh. Den hmastan sto telos.

KARAGIANNH: Exei h kybernhsh amfibolies gia thn ajiopistia toy Ellhna presbh k. Kwstoyla;

REPPAS: Oson afora thn ekqesh, den exoyme kanena logo na amfiballoyme oti apodidei ta gegonota opws o idios ta ezhse kai ta antelhfqh. O kaqenas, allwste, pisteyw oti s` ayth th diadikasia kataqetei th martyria toy, prokeimenoy na symbalei sth diamorfwsh ths alhqoys eikonas.

KARAGIANNH: Me bash thn apanthsh sas, qa hqela na rwthsw an h protroph "petajte toys ejw" poy edoqh apo anwtatoys kratikoys ypallhloys pros ton k. Kwstoyla kai ton k. Kalenteridh, aphxoyse th qesh ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs;

REPPAS: Prepei na anamenete, ola ayta ta qemata poy apoteloyn kai antikeimeno ereynas, na ejetastoyn apo tis eisaggelikes arxes h thn armodia epitroph ths Boylhs. Giati opws ypoqetoyme oti oloi proserxontai kalopista kai kataqetoyn th martyria toys, prokeimenoy na symballoyn sto na anazhthsoyme kai na broyme thn alhqeia, etsi kai eseis qa dexqeite oti kai kapoioi alloi poy isws exoyn mia diaforetikh proseggish, mia diaforetikh ekdoxh gia ta gegonota ayta, thn exoyn, epeidh akribws ayth einai h empeiria toys, ayth einai h antilhch toys gia ta gegonota kai thn ekqetoyn, prokeimenoy kai ekeinoi na symballoyn sto na lamcei h alhqeia.

KARAGIANNH: H dhlwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy, h grapth, stis 16/2, thn hmera poy htan arrwstos htan apotelesma paraplhroforhshs toy;

REPPAS: Asfalws, den htan apotelesma paraplhroforhshs toy. Einai apotelesma gnwshs twn pragmatwn, me bash ta stoixeia poy eixe sth diaqesh toy ekeinh th stigmh. Epanalambanw, oti otan oloklhrwqoyn oi ereynes poy diejagontai se parallhla epipeda, tote qa exoyme mia plhrh eikona. Mexri tote, den shmainei oti oi politikoi paragontes den topoqetoyntai epi toy qematos. To ekane o Prwqypoyrgos, to kanoyn oi politikoi arxhgoi, to kanoyn ta MME. Ayto, nomizw, einai poly logiko, einai fysiologiko. Den shmainei oti an kapoios kanei mia topoqethsh, thn kanei epeidh einai apolyta peismenos oti den yparxei tipota allo pros ereyna. Kaqenas exei ypoch toy orismena stoixeia, orismena dedomena, sta opoia sthrizetai, prokeimenoy na ekfrasei th qesh toy. Otan oloklhrwqei h ereyna, tote pisteyw oti qa exoyme safh kai oloklhrwmenh eikona.

ALEJAKH: Stis 16/2 o Prwqypoyrgos topoqethqhke me bash ta stoixeia poy eixe sth diaqesh toy ekeinh th stigmh. Ayto den eipate, kyrie Ypoyrge; Omws edw, exoyme toys ypoyrgoys na lene oti epairnan entoles apo ton k. Kosmidh, oti ekteloysan entoles toy k. Kosmidh. Kai tiqetai ena zhthma: O k. Kosmidhs epairne entoles apo ton Prwqypoyrgo h tis edine monos toy stoys ypoyrgoys h o k. Kosmidhs den enhmerwne ton Prwqypoyrgo;

REPPAS: Mporeite na moy peite poios ypoyrgos eipe oti epairne entoles apo ton k. Kosmidh;

ALEJAKH: O k. Papadopoylos, o k. Petsalnikos eipan oti milhsan me ton k. Kosmidh...

REPPAS: Me sygxwreite, eipate kati sthn erwthsh sas, oti epairnan entoles apo ton k. Kosmidh, oti ekteloysan entoles toy k. Kosmidh. Parakalw, qelete na diatypwsete pali thn erwthsh sas;

ALEJAKH: Oxi, nomizw oti th diatypwsa kala.

REPPAS: Apantw: Oydeis ypoyrgos phre entoles apo ton k. Kosmidh. Oi ypoyrgoi oi opoioi symmeteixan sth diaxeirish ayths ths krishs, einai gnwsto poioi htan. O k. Kosmidhs, asfalws, sto plaisio aytwn twn xeirismwn, enhmerwne ton Prwqypoyrgo. O Prwqypoyrgos htan enhmeros gia to plaisio twn kinhsewn. Apo kei kai pera, bebaiws, diafora organa, se diafora epipeda, ejeidikeysan ayto to plaisio politikhs, me apotelesma na exoyme ayth th dysmenh ejelijh, gia thn opoia exoyme kat' epanalhch milhsei kai exoyme analabei tis sxetikes eyqynes. Einai allo to ena kai allo to allo. Alla, asfalws, oydeis -kai epikaloymai kai toys idioys toys anaferomenoys- eipe pote oti phre entoles apo ton k. Kosmidh. Ara, loipon, kati tetoio den stekei, epeidh to labate ws bash gia na kanete thn erwthsh sas.

ALEJAKH: An milate gia kateyqynseis, na dexqw tis kateyqynseis kai oxi tis entoles, opws eipate, an ayth h ekfrash einai poly baria...

REPPAS: Ma, miloyse me toys ypoyrgoys, miloyse me ton ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn o Prwqypoyrgos. Mh dinete thn entypwsh oti o Prwqypoyrgos den epikoinwnei me toys ypoyrgoys h epikoinwnei mesw tritwn, mesw toy k. Kosmidh. Den einai etsi.

ALEJAKH: An o k. Kosmidhs miloyse, edine kateyqynseis, elege th gnwmh toy Prwqypoyrgoy stoys ypoyrgoys kai o Prwqypoyrgos miloyse ston ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn, htan enhmerwmenos o k. Shmiths gia olh thn ejelijh...

REPPAS: Twra to akoyte ayto gia prwth fora;

ALEJAKH: Oxi, k. Ekproswpe, alla diarkws lete oti o Prwqypoyrgos qa enhmerwqei, qa perimenei na bgei to porisma. Ti akribws exei ginei; Eixe labei gnwsh, den eixe labei gnwsh.

REPPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos htan enhmeros gia to plaisio politikhs. Htan enhmeros gia to oti brisketai o k. Otsalan edw, oti prokeitai na prowqhqei se ena proorismo, prokeimenoy na toy parasxeqei ayth h bohqeia, poy htan toso anagkaia, ekeinh th stigmh. Htan enhmeros gia ta basika stoixeia twn xeirismwn poy ginontan. Apo kei kai pera, h ejeidikeysh, h praktikh efarmogh aytoy toy politikoy plaisioy paroxhs anqrwpistikhs bohqeias pros ton Ampntoylax Otsalan, antilambaneste pws den einai dynato na einai se gnwsh, me kaqe leptomereia, aytwn poy htan epikefalhs se ayth th diaxeirish ths krishs, poly perissotero ston idio ton Prwqypoyrgo. Oi ereynes, oi opoies ginontai, einai anagkaies. Kai den nomizw oti yparxei kapoios, o opoios mporei na isxyristei ayth thn wra oti gnwrizei, se olh thn ektash kai me leptomereies, to pws ejelixthke ayth h ypoqesh. Gi' ayto akribws ginontai oi ereynes.

DHMAKAS: Afoy o Prwqypoyrgos htan enhmeros gia to plaisio kai eixe ap' eyqeias epafh me toys ypoyrgoys, opws eipate, tote poios akribws o rolos toy k. Kosmidh; Kai to lew ayto giati sthn epitroph xeirismoy krisewn, ejeidikeyotan h politikh. Ara, ti enhmerwne o k. Kosmidhs ton Prwqypoyrgo; To symperasma moy einai oti enhmerwnotan gia thn ejeidikeysh ths politikhs. Einai swsto;

REPPAS: O k. Kosmidhs, asfalws, ws stenos synergaths toy Prwqypoyrgoy eixe epafh me ton Prwqypoyrgo. Ayto den shmainei -opws apanthsa molis prin- oti o Prwqypoyrgos den eixe apeyqeias epikoinwnia me ton ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn h toys alloys ypoyrgoys otan ayto htan aparaithto. Apo kei kai pera, milw gia thn praktikh ejeidikeysh aytoy toy politikoy plaisioy apo ta organa ths yphresias, mexri to katwtero epipedo. Aytoys dhladh toys leitoyrgoys oi opoioi sthn Presbeia sthn Kenya, sto Nairompi, eprepe na kanoyn xeirismoys, me bash tis kateyqynseis poy eixan apo thn Aqhna. Ola ayta ta qemata -epanalambanw- epeidh ta exoyme syzhthsei arketa, oso kai na ta syzhtoyme den exoyme th dynatothta na ta fwtisoyme akomh perissotero. Gi` ayto akribws h Ejetastikh Epitroph ths Boylhs kai oi eisaggelikes arxes me thn ereyna poy kanoyn, h opoia ginetai me tropo systhmatiko, qa mas bohqhsoyn na gnwrisoyme tis leptomereies.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Eipate oti o Prwqypoyrgos htan enhmeros gia to plaisio ths politikhs. Sto plaisio efarmoghs ayths ths politikhs, o xeirismos poy epi meres diatypwnotan apo thn ellhnikh presbeia, htan "petajte toys ejw". Sthn ektimhsh poy leei oti apo th stigmh poy htan enhmeros gia to plaisio ths politikhs kai eixame tetoioys xeirismoys gia thn efarmogh ayths ths politikhs, ara o Prwqypoyrgos htan enhmeros gia toys xeirismoys poy apeblepan sto "petajte toys ejw". Pws to ektimate ayto, pws to sxoliazete;

REPPAS: Aporw giati qetete ayth thn erwthsh. Pairnete tois metrhtois ayto poy o k. Kwstoylas, kai poly kala kanete, giati den exoyme kanena logo na amfiballoyme, giati ayth einai h dikh toy empeiria. Qa moy epitrecete, omws, na pw oti qa synektimhqoyn ayta poy leei o k. Kwstoylas me ayta poy exoyn pei kai alloi paragontes kai ta opoia den gnwrizoyme thn wra poy syzhtoyme, prokeimenoy na exoyme ena teliko kai asfales symperasma. Qa perimenoyme, loipon, na oloklhrwqoyn oi ereynes.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Ayth th stigmh, exoyme diafores martyries poy tygxanei na einai martyries aytoptwn martyrwn twn gegonotwn, poy se syntriptiko baqmo qa elega, ean oxi se apolyto baqmo...

REPPAS: Opws gia peite moy, poioi einai aytoi oi martyres;

MPOGIOPOYLOS: O k. Kwstoylas, h ka Ntilan, o k. Kalenteridhs, sto baqmo poy exei milhsei sta MME, dikhgoroi oi opoioi breqhkan sto xwro ths Presbeias. Aytoi einai aytoptes martyres kai exoyn milhsei. Exoyme, loipon, tis martyries twn aytoptwn martyrwn. Bebaiws, eseis lete oti qa synektimhqoyn kai alla stoixeia k. l. p. To gegonos einai, omws, oti oi aytoptes martyres kai ta stoixeia ta opoia paraqetoyn, einai dhlwtiko twn stoixeiwn aytwn oti erxontai se plhrh antifash me ta osa h kybernhsh elege oles tis hmeres, meta th syllhch toy Otsalan, para to gegonos oti ekkremei h diadikasia. Ena prwto sas sxolio ep` aytwn twn antifasewn metajy kybernhshs kai aytoptwn martyrwn, mporoyme na exoyme;

REPPAS: Prwta ap` ola ayto to symperasma einai ayqaireto, einai diko sas symperasma. Den einai symperasma to opoio mas briskei symfwnoys. Apo ekei kai pera, emeis pisteyoyme oti oi martyries exoyn th sxetikh ajia toys, giati prepei na synektimhqoyn me martyries allwn paragontwn, prokeimenoy na exoyme to teliko porisma. Qa perimenete -kai parakalw na mh biazeste kai mhn epixeireite na prokatalabete ta apotelesmata twn ereynwn- na oloklhrwqoyn oi ergasies kai ths Ejetastikhs Epitrophs ths Boylhs, wste tote oloi na gnwrizoyme pws exoyn ejelixqei ta pragmata.

T. MPERMPERAKHS: Einai aposafhnismeno gia thn kybernhsh, me ta mexri stigmhs dedomena poy einai se gnwsh ths, an oi arxes ths Kenyas syzhthsan to qema ths ejodoy toy Otsalan me ton Ellhna Presbh h to diapragmateyqhkan me ton idio ton Otsalan h kai ta dyo mazi;

REPPAS: Ayta einai, akribws, qemata ta opoia apasxoloyn tis armodies yphresies poy kanoyn thn ereyna. Mhn perimenete na ekdwsw ena porisma apokaqistwntas th leitoyrgia kai thn armodiothta allwn forewn.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: To eixate ekdwsei, omws, stis 16 toy mhnos.

REPPAS: Polloi exoyn pei th qesh toys gi` ayta ta qemata kai den antilambanomai giati qewreite pws exoyn dikaiwma kapoioi na lene tis apoceis toys kai kapoio alloi na mhn apantoyn. Poly perissotero otan kathgoroyntai gia "prodosia", gia "dosilogismo" kai gia ola ekeina ta epikindyna kai aneyqyna poy dhlhthriasan th dhmosia zwh ths xwras.

MAYRIDHS: Otan, basei ths ekqeshs Kwstoyla, ta pragmata eixan arxisei na dyskoleyoyn, blepame oti yparxei problhma kai o k. Kwstoylas diaxeirizotan to qema kai epairne kapoies prwtoboylies, mia protash poy ekane, htan na paei o Otsalan ston OHE. Ayth h protash aporrifqhke. Mporeite na moy dwsete mia ejhghsh;

REPPAS: Polles protaseis diatypwqhkan. Telika, epilexqhke apo thn kybernhsh na akoloyqhqei ayth h odos, prokeimenoy na metaferqei se enan endiameso proorismo o k. Otsalan, me teliko proorismo ena allo meros, opoy qa mporoyse na einai asfalhs.

MAYRIDHS: To sxedio, hdh, kindyneye na nayaghsei. Htan mia kalh lysh gia na phgainate stis arxikes protaseis peri dhmosiopoihshs, peri syllhchs...

REPPAS: Eidate, loipon, ek twn ysterwn, otan gnwrizoyme oti to apotelesma einai dysmenes, mporoyme me anesh na miloyme kai na proteinoyme alles proseggiseis. Prin fqasoyme s` ayto to dysmenes apotelesma, oydeis doyleyei gia na erqei ayto to dysmenes apotelesma. Oloi doyleyoyn gia na exoyn ena aisio telos, ena aisio apotelesma oi prospaqeies toys. Ek twn ysterwn, mporeis na peis para polla. Einai teleiws diaforetikh h katastash.

MAYRIDHS: Ara, dhladh, h kybernhsh htan synephs sto plaisio politikhs poy eixe yposxeqei ston Otsalan.

REPPAS: To plaisio politikhs ths kybernhshs htan na prosferei anqrwpistikh bohqeia ston Ampntoylax Otsalan. Na ton metaferei se enan topo poy qa htan asfalhs kai na ton bohqhsei na egkatastaqei kapoy opoy qa htan para poly dyskolo na entopistei. Ayto htan to shmeio to opoio odhghse thn kybernhsh na kanei oles tis epiloges ths. Apo ekei kai pera, bebaiws, h metafora enos sxedioy sthn prajh, antilambaneste pws synanta polles dyskolies. Giati tetoioy eidoys kriseis den tis diekperaiwneis se synqhkes ergasthrioy. Antilambaneste, loipon, oti yparxei terastia apostash anamesa sth syzhthsh, th qewrhtikh proseggish kai thn efarmogh kai ylopoihsh twn sxediwn poy mporei kapoios se qewrhtiko epipedo na syllambanei.

MAYRIDHS: Otan yparxei mia krish ypo diaxeirish, qewreite logiko na feygei o ypoyrgos, o opoios einai o kat` ejoxhn armodios, gia th diaxeirish ayths ths krishs, na phgainei sto ejwteriko kai na kobei toys diayloys epikoinwnias gia treis hmeres, otan diaxeirizetai mia tetoioy eidoys krish;

REPPAS: Den antilambanomai ti einai ayto sto opoio anafereste.

MAYRIDHS: Milw gia to tajidi toy ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn sta Balkania, opoy gia treis hmeres eixe kopei h epikoinwnia me thn Kenya.

REPPAS: Poios sas eipe oti h politikh ths Elladas, idiaiterws h ejwterikh politikh ths, arxizei kai teleiwnei sthn Kenya, sth diaxeirish ths sygkekrimenhs krishs; Poly perissotero otan yphrxe h pepoiqhsh oti h ejelijh twn pragmatwn epetrepe ayth thn prowqhsh twn ellhnikwn symferontwn, me thn episkech toy armodioy ypoyrgoy se geitonikes balkanikes xwres.

MAYRIDHS: Htan toso sigoyrh, dhladh, h kybernhsh gia thn katastash poy qa epikratoyse sthn Kenya;

REPPAS: Panta yparxoyn problhmata kai panta kaneis ypoqeseis kai gia ena endexomeno arnhtikwn ejelijewn. Alla, asfalws, otan xeirizesai mia ypoqesh, pisteyeis oti o tropos me ton opoio th xeirizesai einai qetikos. Odhgeisai se ena qetiko apotelesma. Den nomizw oti xeirizetai kaneis mia krish pisteyontas oti oi xeirismoi toy odhgoyn se apotyxia. Kaqenas pisteyei oti odhgeitai se epityxia me toys xeirismoys poy kanei. Gi` ayto kanei aytoys toys xeirismoys. Apo ekei kai pera, epanalambanw, h episkech toy ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn stis geitonikes xwres, ekeinh th stigmh -gnwrizete poia einai h krish poy eixe jespasei sto Kossyfopedio, gnwrizete oti akoma den exei jeperastei o kindynos anataraxwn s` ayth thn perioxh- htan xrhsimh gia thn Ellada, dedomenoy oti gia th balkanikh politikh mas polla exoyme sxediasei, polla exoyme kanei kai polla akoma prepei na kanoyme. Giati prepei h Ellada na einai apoysa; Den to antilambanomai ayto.

KARASABBA: Hqela orismenes dieykrinhseis. Milhsate gia apostaqeropoihsh kai xwres poy prospaqoyn na apomakrynoyn thn Ellada apo thn poreia ths pros thn ONE. Na qewrhsw oti mia ap` aytes einai kai h Toyrkia;

REPPAS: Pisteyw oti h Toyrkia den einai eytyxhs gia thn proodo poy exei epitelesei h Ellada ta teleytaia xronia, doqentos oti h Ellada epitygxanei na proseggizei toys stoxoys poy exei qesei, enw h Toyrkia menei poly makria apo thn pragmatopoihsh toy oneiroy ths na entaxqei sthn Eyrwph.

KARASABBA: Kata kairoys exete ekfrasei kapoia anhsyxia gia thn politikh astaqeia poy epikratoyse sthn Toyrkia. Meta th syllhch toy Otsalan yparxei kapoia staqerothta. Sthn ellhnikh kybernhsh, kata synepeia, yparxei kaqhsyxasmos meta apo th staqerothta sthn Toyrkia;

REPPAS: Prwta ap` ola, den nomizw oti yparxei politikh staqerothta sthn Toyrkia. H geitonikh xwra odhgeitai se ekloges. An krinoyme apo tis dhlwseis kai th symperifora twn Toyrkwn ajiwmatoyxwn kai twn diaforwn politikwn hgetwn, mporoyme abiasta na bgaloyme to symperasma oti h Toyrkia exei epilejei na katasthsei thn Ellada ws exqriko stoxo ths, prokeimenoy oi diaforoi politikoi hgetes na kerdisoyn pontoys dhmotikothtas, enocei twn toyrkikwn eklogwn. Giati ayth h systhmatikh epiqesh toys enantion ths Elladas, ayto to anqellhniko paralhrhma -eidate tis dhlwseis poy ekane o k. Etzebit- dhlwnoyn oti h Toyrkia endiaferetai na krathsei ychloys toys tonoys s` ayth thn antiparaqesh me thn Ellada. Kataskeyazei enan ejwteriko exqro, th xwra mas dhladh, prokeimenoy na apoprosanatolisei kai ton plhqysmo ths, alla kai thn dieqnh koinh gnwmh apo tis ypoxrewseis poy exei kai prepei na analabei, na antimetwpisei kai na lysei, dhladh, to koyrdiko zhthma. Oi dhlwseis poy ekane o k. Etzebit, sysxetizontas thn Ellada me tromokratikes energeies sthn Toyrkia, einai ejofqalma ceydeis. Kai prepei na exei kaneis apyqmeno qrasos gia na leei tetoia cemata olkhs. Poly perissotero, otan h katoxh sth Kypro -kai menw s` ayto to paradeigma- h qhriwdia twn Toyrkwn kai h barbarothta toy Attila, einai stoixeia ta opoia mporei kapoios na ta labei ypoch toy gia na gnwrisei poios einai aytos o opoios omilei. An einai ajiopistos h ypokrinetai. Kai pisteyw oti ypokrinetai otan omilei me ayth th glwssa o k. Etzebit, peri twn anqrwpinwn dikaiwmatwn h strefetai enantion ths Elladas.

KARASABBA: Milate, epishs, gia thn anqrwpistikh bohqeia h opoia doqhke ston Otsalan apo thn Ellada, apo tis 29 Ianoyarioy kai meta. Prin apo ayto ti htan; Dhladh, otan hrqe o Otsalan sthn Ellada, stis 9 Oktwbrioy kai synanthqhke kai milhse me Ellhnes ajiwmatoyxoys, ti htan tote;

REPPAS: Exoyme syzhthsei gia ola ayta ta qemata me leptomereies. Mh qelete na epanelqoyme sth syzhthsh istorikwn gegonotwn, ta opoia me thn apostash toy xronoy, kapoia stigmh, qa mporoyn na apasxolhsoyn toys istorikoys. Exw pei oti ayth h periodos qa meinei kai qa melethqei apo toys istorikoys kai qa bgoyn ta istorika symperasmata. H krish ayth dhmioyrghqhke epeidh h Ellada breqhke apenanti se ena tetelesmeno gegonos. Den kalese ton k. Otsalan. Otan breqhke o Koyrdos hgeths sthn Ellada -kai malista afoy eixe prohghqei h perihghsh toy se diafores alles xwres kai sthn Italia sygkekrimena, opoy htan adynato na parameinei- antimetwpisame ena terastio dilhmma. Epeleje h ellhnikh kybernhsh na prosferei anqrwpistikh bohqeia ston Ampntoylax Otsalan. Kai einai lyphro to fainomeno kapoioi, oi opoioi, opws oloi mas exoyn stenoxwrhqei apo th dysmenh ejelijh, na kathgoroyn thn Ellada, na amfisbhtoyn tis proqeseis mas, na dikazoyn tis proqeseis mas, enw gnwrizoyn oloi poies htan oi proqeseis mas. Qa mporoysame kai emeis na apekdyqoyme twn eyqynwn mas, na kanoyme ayto to opoio ekanan oloi oi alloi. Na "ektojeysoyme" ton Otsalan poy, afoy oydeis ton dexotan; Sto diasthma; To exw janapei ayto. Yphrxe xwra poy htan proqymh na ton dexqei; Breqhkame emeis apenanti se prosfores xwrwn oi opoies ton kaloysan na egkatastaqei ekei; Oyte mia xwra yphrxe.

KARASABBA: Ginetai kapoia energeia na doqei kapoia grapth kataqesh apo ton Italo dikhgoro toy Otsalan kai na doqei, edw, sth Ellhnikh Dikaiosynh;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw an oi eisaggeleis exoyn kalesei kai kapoioys allogeneis h alloeqneis na kataqesoyn. Ws kybernhsh emeis qeloyme h ereyna h opoia qa ginei se kaqe epipedo na einai plhrhs. Einai qema twn armodiwn paragontwn na krinoyn pws mporei na einai plhrhs h ereyna poy diejagoyn.

LIARELLHS: Epeidh o prwhn Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn k. Pagkalos thn perasmenh Trith sto Milano ki eseis xrhsimopoihsate thn idia frash gia "dieqnh kentra kai paragontes poy mporei na hqelan na plhjoyn thn poreia ths xwras (pros thn ONE) kai thn politikh staqerothta". Epeidh o Prwqypoyrgos to ypainixthke ayto, thn Paraskeyh sth Boylh, o k. Shmiths ki eseis shmera milhsate gia thn Toyrkia. Peran ths Toyrkias poia einai ta alla kentra kai oi paragontes poy piqanotata qeloyn na plhjoyn th staqerothta sth xwra;

REPPAS: Einai kati to opoio ypainissomai, einai kati to opoio basima ektimw, einai kati sto opoio odhgoymai meta apo seira logikwn skecewn. An pragmatika eixa sygkekrimena stoixeia, qa hmoyn kathgorhmatikos, qa ekana kai proswpikes anafores, qa ekana onomastikes anafores. Ayto den mporw na to kanw. An omws breqw apenanti se sygkekrimena erwthmata, opws ayta ths kas Karasabba h allwn synadelfwn sas, gia th stash ths Toyrkias, mporw na ektimhsw oti h Toyrkia pragmatika den epiqymei ayth thn proodo poy exei epitelesei h Ellada, proseggizontas toys stoxoys poy exoyme qesei.

LIARELLHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, to Sabbato sto "Eqnos", dhmosieythke ena analytiko reportaz, to opoio fainotan na einai ajiopisto kai apodidontan para polla ston k. Pagkalo, opoy metajy allwn anaferotan oti piqanotata oi HPA den hqelan ton k. Pagkalo sth qesh toy Ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn. Malista paretiqento kai sygkekrimena gegonota. Pws to sxoliazete ki an to sysxetizete me th qesh peri "dieyqnwn kentrwn kai paragontwn".

REPPAS: Qa pw apla oti thn ellhnikh kybernhsh th sygkrotei o Prwqypoyrgos kai tis kybernhseis sth xwra mas tis anadeiknyei o ellhnikos laos. Oydeis allos exei logo gia th synqesh toy kybernhtikoy sxhmatos. O k. Pagkalos htan epi makro xrono Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn. Gnwrizete poly kala oti ta gegonota ayta, ta peristatika ta opoia anaferontai eginan se diafores xronikes stigmes, den ephreasan kaqoloy, omws, th qesh toy Ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn sto plaisio ths kybernhshs. H symmetoxh toy sthn kybernhsh htan adiatarakth. Dystyxws, eixame ayth th dysmenh ejelijh, oson afora thn ypoqesh Otsalan. Polles ypoqeseis mporei kaqenas na kanei sto plaisio ths politikhs syzhthshs. Alla ayto, bebaiws, einai kati diaforetiko apo to na ekdwsei ena dikastikoy xarakthra porisma, gia to pws akribws exoyn ta pragmata gia to sygkekrimeno qema.

T. MPERMPERAKHS: Meta th syllhch toy Otsalan yparxei kai deyterh ekqesh toy presbh Kwstoyla gia ta diadramatizomena meta;

REPPAS: Oxi. Kathgorhmatikos eimai se ayto to qema. Den exoyme ypoch mas thn yparjh allhs ekqeshs.

KOYtN: Egw exw mia poly aplh erwthsh. Den qelw oyte tis leptomereies na syzhthsw, aplws qelw na moy peite, to baqmo dysareskeias ths kybernhshs poy dhmosiopoihqhke ayth h ekqesh.

REPPAS: Ayth h ekqesh htan sta xeria diaforwn paragontwn. Den htan mono sta xeria toy Ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn h toy Ypoyrgoy Anaplhrwth Ejwterikwn. H dhmosiopoihsh ths ekqeshs ayths den egine me prwtoboylia ths kybernhshs.

Briskw thn eykairia na pw, me aformh thn erwthsh sas, oti einai aparadekth h qesh poy diatypwse o Ekproswpos ths N. D., oti h kybernhsh edwse ston Typo ayth thn ekqesh. Ayth h kathgoria, peran toy oti einai ayqaireth, einai kai ceydhs. Deixnei thn empaqeia ths Ajiwmatikhs Antipoliteyshs enantion toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai ths kybernhshs, se shmeio poy jeperna ta oria ths deontologias, oson afora thn politikh kai kommatikh antiparaqesh. H ekqesh ayth dhmosieyqhke se mia efhmerida. Oi ypeyqynoi ths efhmeridas ekrinan oti etsi eprepe na kanoyn. Apo kei kai pera, gnwrizete oti o eisaggelikos leitoyrgos exei analabei sxetikh prwtoboylia thn opoia den dikaioymai na krinw. Einai ena stoixeio to opoio pisteyw oti arga h grhgora qa erxotan sto fws ths dhmosiothtas, qa htan sth diaqesh olwn mas. H kybernhsh, epeidh h ekqesh ayth htan eidikoy xeirismoy aporrhto eggrafo, anazhtoyse nomikoys tropoys, prokeimenoy na doqei sthn Ejetastikh Epitroph ths Boylhs, wste na lhfqei ypoch mazi me ta alla eggrafa, tis alles martyries.

KOYtN: Den moy apanthsate gia to baqmo dysareskeias h oxi. Eisaste eytyxismenoi poy bghke, eisaste dysaresthmenoi;

REPPAS: Den apanthsa; Qelete na apanthsw me mia lejh mono; Oyte xaroymenoi eimaste, oyte dysaresthmenoi eimaste. Pisteyw oti h dhlwsh poy ejedwsa apokaqista ta pragmata. Ekfrazei tis qeseis ths kybernhshs kai einai apolyta isorrophmenh. Oson afora thn ajia ths martyrias ayths, einai shmantikh, alla bebaiws einai sxetikh, giati prepei na synektimhqei mazi me oles tis alles martyries twn emplekomenwn paragontwn.

ELENOPOYLOS: Peran ths qeshs toy k. Pagkaloy sthn kybernhsh, yparxoyn alla dieqnh kentra h xwres gia na ginw pio safhs, oi opoies na epiqymoyn parekklish ths Elladas apo thn poreia poy akoloyqei;

REPPAS: Akoyste: Egw den eimai aytos o opoios qa ajiologei kai qa baqmologei th stash twn allwn xwrwn apenanti sthn Ellada. Ayto exei th shmasia toy, alla akomh megalyterh shmasia exei na kanoyme emeis to xreos mas. Emeis qa synexisoyme thn prospaqeia mas na perifroyrhsoyme ta symferonta ths xwras mas kai toy ellhnikoy laoy kai na eggyhqoyme thn poreia ths xwras pros to mellon, wste na mpoyme me ajiwseis ston 21o aiwna. Ayto einai poy exei shmasia. Ti kanoyme emeis gia th xwra mas kai to lao mas. Kai emeis prospaqoyme na kanoyme to kalytero dynato.

TAKHS: O stenos synergaths toy Prwqypoyrgoy k. Pasxalidhs, dhlwse proxqes oti opoios diafwnei me ton Prwqypoyrgo gia toys xeirismoys ths kybernhshs, na shkwsei me qarros to xeri toy. Ennoeite oti meta apo ayth thn kinhsh endexomenws na eperxetai kai h ejodos apo thn tajh;

REPPAS: Ayta einai qemata, ta opoia antilambaneste pws aforoyn tis epikeimenes kommatikes ejelijeis, thn organwsh toy Synedrioy mas. Sto plaisio aytwn twn syzhthsewn ths prosynedriakhs periodoy, diafora stelexh ekfrazoyn tis apoceis toys gia ta qemata ta opoia exoyn sxesh me to Synedrio kai pantws den aforoyn thn poreia kai to ergo ths kybernhshs. Einai qemata poy aforoyn th leitoyrgia toy Kinhmatos enocei toy Synedrioy.

SOYRMELH: Epeidh einai ayqentikh h ekqesh kai epeidh egw merika pragmata den ta katalaba, den ta exw akoysei jana, aytos o k. Aristeidoy poios einai; O k. Tzobaras, poios einai; Kai an ap` oti fainetai h ellhnikh kybernhsh kateqese 10 ekatommyria dolaria sthn kybernhsh twn Seyxelwn...

DHMOSIOGRAFOI: Dekapente ekatommyria dolaria.

SOYRMELH: Ta 10 ws prokatabolh. Se kapoia efhmerida to diabasa.

REPPAS: Prwta ap` ola gia polla qemata ta opoia anaferontai sthn ekqesh, se alles dhlwseis h senaria, qa mporoysa ki egw na apeyqynw erwthseis. Giati antilambaneste pws an eixame ypoch mas mexri leptomereias pws eginan ta pragmata, den qa xreiazotan na ginei ayth h ereyna, thn opoia emeis zhtoyme ki epimenoyme, giati qeloyme na gnwrisoyme me kaqe leptomereia pws ejelixqhkan ta gegonota.

Ayto to opoio mporw na sas pw einai, oti den exoyn doqei xrhmata se kapoia allh xwra. Asfalws, yphrxe mia synennohsh na enisxyqei ena anaptyjiako programma twn Seyxelwn, me xrhmatodothsh mesw daneioy apo thn Ellada. Den egine ayto. Den exoyn doqei xrhmata, ej oswn gnwrizw. Ayto to opoio exei shmasia einai ola ayta ta proswpa ta opoia ferontai na exoyn mia anameijh, oi kinhseis, oi epiloges kai oi xeirismoi poy ekanan, qa prepei na apasxolhsoyn -epanalambanw- tis armodies yphresies. Den mporw na krinw egw, xwris na exw ayth thn armodiothta, to an kalws h kakws epraje kapoios.

SOYRMELIDHS: Epeidh ayth thn wra synexizetai sto Symboylio ths Eyrwphs mia syzhthsh gia ena chfisma poy afora ton Otsalan, toys Koyrdoys k. lp., qa hqela na mas peite, an h ellhnikh kybernhsh einai diateqeimenh na apodexqei diatypwseis oi opoies anaferontai sthn tromokratikh drash twn Koyrdwn kai toy PKK.

REPPAS: Gnwrizete oti ayth h syzhthsh sto plaisio toy Symboylioy ths Eyrwphs ejelissetai edw kai arketes hmeres. Den exei prokycei symfwnia kai fainetai oti einai poly dyskolo na prokycei symfwnia. Oi qeseis mas gia to qema, sto opoio emmesws anafereste, einai gnwstes. Tis exoyme diatypwsei kat` epanalhch. Den eimaste emeis aytoi oi opoioi qa baqmologhsoyme kai qa katatajoyme se kathgories tis diafores organwseis, toys diaforoys ekproswpoys. Ayto poy emeis efarmozoyme einai mia politikh arxwn kai sto plaisio ayths ths politikhs arxwn, exoyme kat` epanalhch katadikasei egklhmatikes energeies kai prajeis bias. Pisteyoyme oti o dialogos, h eirhnikh kai politikh odos mporei na odhghsoyn sth lysh twn problhmatwn. Se ayth th qesh paramenoyme.

SOYRMELIDHS: Qa hqela epishs na mas peite, an synexizetai opoiadhpote ereyna apo tis amerikanikes arxes gia mystika poy dhqen edwse h Ellada sth Rwsia.

REPPAS: Exei apodeixqei pws aytoi oi isxyrismoi poy diatypwqhkan einai anypostatoi, einai ceydeis. Exei kleisei aytos o kyklos. Den yparxei opoiodhpote qema to opoio na dhmioyrgei problhma h skia stis sxeseis mas, oson afora ayto to tmhma twn sxesewn mas.

KIAOS: Sxetika me mia megalh ereyna thn opoia dhmosieyei shmera h efhmerida ELEYQEROTYPIA. Gnwrizete ta stoixeia, na mhn sas rwthsw sygkekrimena gia tomeis. Ti lete ep` aytoy eseis;

REPPAS: Oti den einai sofo kapoios na agnoei ta apotelesmata dhmoskophsewn poy ginontai me episthmoniko tropo. Apo thn allh, ta apotelesmata kaqe dhmoskophshs exoyn sxetikh ajia. Emeis prospaqoyme na kerdizoyme, thn krisimh wra, thn empistosynh toy laoy sthn kalph. Ayto qa kanoyme kai enocei twn anametrhsewn poy exoyme mprosta mas ton epomeno xrono.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Polites sto Litoxwro syllambanontai, prophlakizontai, kratoyntai sta astynomika tmhmata, epeidh anartoyn pano sta aytokinhta toys poy diadhlwnoyn diamartyria gia thn paroysia ekei twn natoikwn dynamewn. Poios exei thn eyqynh gia th drash ayth twn dynamewn asfaleias s` ekeinh thn perioxh;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw to peristatiko sto opoio anafereste. Pisteyw oti, efoson kapoios exei synnomh drasthriothta, den diatrexei kanena kindyno. Kai den einai dynaton na yparxoyn organa ta opoia exoyn thn armodiothta na frontizoyn gia thn tajh kai th dhmosia asfaleia kai taytoxrona na yperbainoyn ta kaqhkonta toys kai na strefontai enantion politwn poy den exoyn diaprajei opoiodhpote adikhma. Alla epeidh den gnwrizw to peristatiko ayto, parakalw na doyme pws akribws exoyn ta pragmata, prokeimenoy na eimaste sigoyroi ki emeis an pragmati kati den exei ginei swsta, giati mporei na yparxei kai kati allo to opoio ayth thn wra den to gnwrizoyme.

PARIS: Na epanelqw sthn prwth moy erwthsh. Epeidh einai dedomeno oti o xronos, oson afora thn ONE, einai poly mikros apo edw kai pera kai einai epishs dedomeno oti h Toyrkia den qa to kanei eykolotera apo thn Ellada na mpei sthn ONE, hqela na rwthsw to ejhs: Pio sygkekrimena, nomizete oti h kybernhsh einai ikanh na antimetwpisei kapoio qermo epeisodio h kapoia krish stis ellhnotoyrkikes sxeseis apo edw kai pera; Kai ean exei parei kapoies diabebaiwseis apo toys Amerikanoys oti qa prospaqhsoyn na piesoyn thn Toyrkia, wste na mh dhmioyrghsei kapoio tetoio problhma.

REPPAS: H epiqetikh kai proklhtikh symperifora ths Toyrkias einai ena poly kako shmadi. Emeis gia na epityxoyme toys stoxoys mas, prepei na ejasfalisoyme sth xwra mas thn kalyterh eggyhsh, poy den einai allh para mono emeis oi idioi, o laos mas. Emeis, loipon, gia na epityxoyme toys stoxoys mas, prepei na synexisoyme thn prospaqeia mas kai na thn katasthsoyme epityxh. Epanalambanw, kaqe paragontas, tritos, ejw apo thn Ellada, blepei ta pragmata ypo to prisma twn dikwn toy symferontwn. Ayto ginetai panta. Emeis den qa prepei na pagideytoyme. Kai den anamenoyme bohqeies h eggyhseis oi opoies qa kaqorisoyn thn poreia mas. Emeis qeloyme na leitoyrgoyn oi kanones stis dieqneis sxeseis, oi opoioi basizontai sto Dieqnes Dikaio kai sto pneyma ths kalhs geitonias, ths isotimhs synergasias. Apo kei kai pera, h epiteyjh twn stoxwn mas ejartatai apo th dikh mas prospaqeia. Ara, loipon, eggyhsh eimaste emeis, sthrizomaste stis dynameis mas, h dikh mas prospaqeia einai ayth h opoia qa mas ferei stoys stoxoys mas.

PARIS: Mia dieykrinish: Epeidh sas rwthsa gia tis HPA kai epeidh jeroyme oloi oti paizoyn ena shmantiko paixnidi se olo ayto to qema, yponoeite oti oi HPA den qeloyn na doyn thn Ellada sthn ONE;

REPPAS: Kyrie Paris, den nomizw oti oi HPA den qeloyn na doyn thn Ellada sthn ONE. Isws, omws, qeloyn na doyn thn Toyrkia sthn E. E., xwris na ekplhrwnei kapoies proypoqeseis. Ayto, loipon, antilambaneste pws einai ena qema to opoio qa prepei na apasxolhsei aytoys poy meletoyn ta ths eyrwpaikhs politikhs h ta sxetika qemata me tis eyrwtoyrkikes sxeseis, gia na bgaloyn ta symperasmata toys. Den gnwrizw poia einai ta symferonta twn HPA. Ayto ta gnwrizoyn oi hgetes twn HPA. Egw gnwrizw poia einai ta symferonta ths xwras mas. Kai to symferon ths xwras mas leei oti prepei na epityxoyme thn entajh mas sthn ONE. To symferon ths xwras mas leei -an qelete na proxwrhsw parapera- h Toyrkia na proseggisei thn Eyrwph. Kai na proseggisei thn Eyrwph, antapokrinomenh stoys oroys kai tis proypoqeseis poy apoteloyn eyrwpaiko kekthmeno. Giati pisteyoyme oti einai kalytera h Toyrkia na einai konta sthn Eyrwph, na exei enarmonistei me aytoys toys kanones symperiforas kai drashs, anti na brisketai se apostash apo thn Eyrwph kai na feretai me ayto ton tropo.

Sas eyxaristw.

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