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Greek Government Press Briefing, 98-10-22

Greek Government Press Briefings in ASCII Greek Directory - Previous Article - Next Article

From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 22 Oktwbrioy 1998

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas.

* O Prwqypoyrgos qa dexqei se mia wra ton Amerikano presbh sthn Aqhna k. Mperns, o opoios eixe zhthsei th synanthsh ayth. Oi dyo andres qa syzhthsoyn tis ellhnoamerikanikes sxeseis, opws symbainei s` aytoy toy eidoys tis synanthseis.

* Mia wra argotera o k. Shmiths qa synergastei me ton Ypoyrgo Eswterikwn Al. Papadopoylo kai to brady qa pareyreqei sthn ekdhlwsh ths probolhs ths brabeymenhs tainias toy Qodwroy Aggelopoyloy "Mia aiwniothta kai mia mera".

* Ayrio, opws gnwrizete, stis 10 to prwi, qa synedriasei h Kybernhtikh Epitroph. Qema syzhthshs o Proypologismos.

* To prwi toy Sabbatoy o Prwqypoyrgos qa anaxwrhsei gia thn Aystria, opoy qa pragmatopoihqei h ektakth Synodos Koryfhs ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs. Thn Kyriakh to brady qa epistrecei kai to prwi ths Deyteras qa synanthqei me ton Oikoymeniko Patriarxh k. Barqolomaio, sto Agion Oros, opoy qa brisketai o Panagiotatos, me thn eykairia twn ekdhlwsewn gia ta 1.000 xronia apo thn idrysh ths Ieras Monhs Jenofwntos.

Prin jekinhsoyme th syzhthsh mas exw thn ejhs grapth erwthsh apo ton thleoptiko staqmo SKAt: "Pws antimetwpizei h ellhnikh kybernhsh to endexomeno analhchs ths ejoysias sta Skopia apo th symmaxia toy WMR kai toy Basilh Toympoyrkofski;" H apanthsh moy einai: "Anamenetai h oloklhrwsh twn eklogikwn diadikasiwn sth geitonikh xwra. Einai qetiko to gegonos oti leitoyrgoyn oi dhmokratikoi qesmoi kai oi kybernhseis anadeiknyontai me th laikh chfo. H Ellada, pagiws, akoloyqei ejwterikh politikh filias, eirhnhs kai synergasias. Epiqymoyme sth bash amoibaioy symferontos tis kalyteres dynates sxeseis me tis kybernhseis twn geitonikwn xwrwn. Pisteyoyme, pws oi ejelijeis me thn chfo toy geitonikoy laoy sto kratos twn Skopiwn qa symballoyn, wste na jeperastoyn kai ta yparxonta problhmata. H Ellada exei deijei sthn prajh oti epiqymei th beltiwsh twn dimerwn sxesewn. Anamenei apo thn Kybernhsh poy qa epilejei o geitonikos laos na prajei ta analoga apo th dikh ths pleyra. "

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Exete na kanete kapoio sxolio gia thn apofash ths Komision me thn opoia parakamptetai, oysiastika, to ellhniko veto gia th xrhmatodothsh ths Toyrkias;

REPPAS: Prwta ap` ola, gnwrizete oti gia to qema ayto exoyme milhsei kai alles fores. Pragmati, yparxei ayth h ejelijh, h opoia den antapokrinetai stoys pagioys kanones kai tis arxes leitoyrgias ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs. Epidiwketai mesw mias antifatikhs kai nefelwdoys epixeirhmatologias na dhmioyrghqei ena neo nomiko kai politiko plaisio gia th leitoyrgia ths E. E. kai twn organwn ths. Pisteyoyme, pws ayto den antapokrinetai sta symferonta ths E. E., afoy den einai symfwno me tis apofaseis poy exoyn lhfqei sta Symboylia Koryfhs. Gia logoys nomikoys kai politikoys, pisteyoyme oti mia tetoia epilogh den einai dynato na proxwrhsei. Qa antidrasoyme se kaqe tetoia apopeira. H Ellada qa analabei oles tis prwtoboylies kai qa ajiopoihsei ta mesa poy diaqetei, prokeimenoy na yperaspistei mia dikaih ypoqesh, to eqniko symferon. Etsi, qa yperaspistoyme th synepeia poy prepei oloi na epideiknyoyme stis apofaseis poy exoyn lhfqei sthn E. E.. Prepei, akomh, na pw oti gia to qema ayto -opws eipa kai tis prohgoymenes hmeres- exoyn ginei epikoinwnies, exoyn stalei epistoles kai exoyn ginei diabhmata, me ta opoia exoyme anaptyjei ta epixeirhmata mas. Plhroforoymaste oti to qema ayto den qa syzhthqei th Deytera sto Symboylio Ypoyrgwn. Qa parapemfqei, kat` arxhn, sto Symboylio twn Monimwn Antiproswpwn kai argotera -isws entos toy Noembrioy- qa apasxolhsei kai toys Ypoyrgoys Ejwterikwn twn kratwn-melwn ths E. E..

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ektos apo to Eyrwpaiko Dikasthrio se poies alles energeies qa probeite;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti exoyme milhsei gia ta mesa poy exoyme sth diaqesh mas. Peran toy Eyrwpaikoy Dikasthrioy qa epidiwjoyme na dhmioyrghsoyme ena neo klima, mesw kai twn dimerwn sxesewn kai twn prwtoboyliwn poy qa analaboyme kai sto Eyrwpaiko Koinoboylio, kaq' oson ki ekei blepoyme na anaptyssetai enas problhmatismos kai na diatypwnontai entones kritikes gi` ayth thn prwtoboylia ths Komision. Gnwrizete poly kala, oti sthn E. E. -opws kat` epanalhch to exoyme pei- yparxei mia sygkroysh symferontwn. Anaptyssontai diaforetikes politikes, me bash tis proteraiothtes poy exei h kybernhsh kaqe xwras-meloys. Emeis, qa prepei na parameinoyme s` ayto to pedio, poy diakrinetai, metajy twn allwn, gia to sklhrotato antagwnismo poy anaptyssetai s` ayto kai na dwsoyme tis maxes yper twn qesewn kai twn symferontwn mas. Kai ayto kanoyme. Mias kai milame gia ena tetoio qema epishmainw oti exoyme epibebaiwsh ths politikhs poy akoloyqoyme, mias politikhs poy fernei th xwra poly konta sto stoxo poy einai h entajh mas sthn ONE. Ayto poy shmera, me omologia twn armodiwn arxwn ths E. E., apotelei pepoiqhsh, oti, dhladh, h Ellada qa epityxei na entaxqei sthn ONE, me th syneth politikh poy akoloyqoyme qa ginei syntoma pragmatikothta.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Alla mesa, omws, den moy eipate;

REPPAS: Hmoyn poly apokalyptikos. Eipa oti h E. E., ta organa ths kai oi diadikasies ths einai kai ena pedio antagwnismoy. Kaqenas anaptyssei tis taktikes toy. Emeis prosarmozoyme tis taktikes mas, analambanontas tis prwtoboylies poy kaqe fora einai aparaithtes, prokeimenoy na epityxoyme to kalytero. Ayta den ta anakoinwneis ek twn proterwn kai malista me ena tetoio analytiko tropo, otan den gnwrizeis, stis leptomereies kai me apolyth safhneia, th qesh poy qa yposthrijoyn oloi oi alloi paragontes, oi opoioi symmetexoyn s` ayth th diadikasia.

SOYRMELH: To Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn anakoinwse, xqes, oti poly syntoma qa prosfygei sto Eyrwpaiko Dikasthrio kata ths apofashs ths Eyrwpaikhs Epitrophs. Pote qa ginei ayto; Shmera, ayrio; Qa ejantlhqoyn oi alles diadikasies kai meta qa ginei h prosfygh; Ti shmainei poly syntoma;

REPPAS: Einai mia prwtoboylia h opoia, opws anaferetai sth sxetikh anakoinwsh, qa analhfqei xwris xronotribh apo thn Kybernhsh mas. Mhn perimenete na sas pw shmera hmera kai wra.

SOYRMELH: Dhladh, den qa ejantlhsete tis diadikasies;

REPPAS: Einai kati to opoio staqmizoyme me bash tis genikoteres ejelijeis. Einai, pantws, mia prwtoboylia thn opoia exoyme yp` och mas na analaboyme.

T. MPERMPERAKHS: Epeidh h chfoforia htan 13-1, pws sxoliazete oti oi alles xwres poy ekproswpoyntai sthn Komision den antilambanontai ta symferonta ths E. E., etsi opws ta lete eseis h den gnwrizoyn toys kanones leitoyrgias;

REPPAS: Oles oi xwres exoyn symfwnhsei s` ena plaisio politikhs, to opoio apotypwqhke me tis apofaseis poy elhfqhsan sto Loyjemboyrgo kai argotera sto Karntif. Ayto to opoio gnwrizw einai oti den exei lhfqei telikh apofash kai oti to qema ayto qa apasxolhsei ta armodia organa ths E. E., to Symboylio Ypoyrgwn. Prin lhfqei apofash, prin dhmosieyqei ayth h apofash, prin h apofash ayth apotelesei apofash ths E. E., den einai dynato na yparjei opoiadhpote tetoia antidrash. H antidrash ayth thn wra ekdhlwnetai, mesw twn dimerwn kai polymerwn synennohsewn, prokeimenoy na anadeijoyme tis qeseis mas kai na probaloyme ta epixeirhmata mas, me skopo na ephreasoyme tis ejelijeis. Otan oi ejelijeis paroyn th morfh ekeinh, wste na mporoyme na milhsoyme gia thn katalhjh toys, gia ena teliko kai dedomeno apotelesma, qa mporoyme ki emeis na prajoyme analogws. Ayth thn wra prepei na pw oti h politikh h opoia akoloyqeitai ek meroys ths E. E., sto sygkekrimeno qema, einai antifatikh. Kai toyto giati -to gnwrizete ki eseis- h Toyrkia antimetwpizetai, afenos, ws xwra h opoia mporei na proxwrhsei, logw ths Telwneiakhs Enwshs me thn E. E., se mia peraiterw sysfigjh twn sxesewn ths me thn E. E., afoy einai mia xwra anaptyssomenh, kai afeteroy, antimetwpizetai ws mia xwra ypanaptykth, mia xwra h opoia afoy etsi xarakthrizetai shmainei oti den exei orato orizonta entajhs sthn E. E.. Ayto, akribws, to antifatiko twn epixeirhmatwn deixnei oti ypokryptetai kapoia skopimothta se mia tetoia prwtoboylia. Ayth h skopimothta den einai dynato na epikrathsei epi twn arxwn me tis opoies prepei na leitoyrgei h E. E.. Oi arxes aytes apotypwnontai sto plaisio ths politikhs poy apofasisthke sta Symboylia Koryfhs ki emeis eimaste synepeis s` aytes tis apofaseis.

T. MPERMPERAKHS: Mhpws, ayto to shmeio einai to qetiko shmeio ths apofashs kai den dikaiologei thn antidrash ths Elladas, to oti, dhladh, to poso dioxeteyetai se mia anaptyssomenh xwra;

REPPAS: Emeis kanoyme politikh arxwn. Den kanoyme politikh mikro-skopimothtwn. Epiqymoyme h E. E. na leitoyrgei me arxes kai kanones poy apodeiknyoyn oti sebetai tis apofaseis poy exoyn lhfqei, oti me synepeia akoloyqei mia sygkekrimenh politikh, afoy h politikh ayth einai symfwnh me ta symferonta twn kratwn-melwn, alla kai ta symferonta ths E. E..

POYLIDOY: Xqes, ta kommata kai oi eyrwboyleytes stis antidraseis toys anaferontai se asynepeia ths kybernhshs, dedomenoy oti h kybernhsh sto Karntif dexqhke th xrhmatodothsh ths Toyrkias apo thn E. E., xwris na diathrhsei epifylajeis. Gi` aytes tis epikriseis ti lete;

REPPAS: H eyrwpaikh strathgikh ths Toyrkias exei orismeno plaisio, oroys kai proypoqeseis poy th xarakthrizoyn. Emeis, symfwnoyme gia thn eyrwpaikh strathgikh ths Toyrkias ki exoyme kat` epanalhch milhsei gi` ayto. Epiqymoyme, omws, na ikanopoioyntai oi proypoqeseis poy exei qesei h E. E. gia thn epiteyjh ayths ths politikhs. H xrhmatodothsh, metajy twn allwn, einai ena metro gia na bohqhqei sthn epiteyjh ayths ths strathgikhs kai h Toyrkia, sth sygklish ths me thn Eyrwph. Pisteyoyme, omws, oti aytos o sygkekrimenos xrhmatodotikos kanonismos exei syndeqei kai me kapoies ypoxrewseis kai oroys poy den throyntai. H E. E. exei programmata, mesw twn opoiwn xrhmatodothse kai xrhmatodotei thn Toyrkia. Ayto einai ena qema gia to opoio h E. E. exei aposafhnisei thn politikh ths, edw kai poly kairo. Apo ton Ioylio toy 1996 exei labei apofash gia ta qemata ayta kai exei orisei ena plaisio politikhs. Ara, h kritikh poy diatypwnetai eite einai kakopisth, eite fanerwnei agnoia twn dedomenwn. Den exei kamia sxesh to ena me to allo.

POYLIDOY: Mexri stigmhs o k. Pagkalos proebale to veto sth xrhmatodothsh ths Toyrkias enanti mias dhlwshs gia thn ypoqesh twn Imiwn. Aytos o oros yphrxe sthn apofash toy Karntif;

REPPAS: Aytos o oros yparxei sta keimena poy exei apofasisei, edw kai kairo, h E. E. gia tis sxeseis ths me thn Toyrkia. Gnwrizete oti aytos o oros epanalambanetai synexws kai apotelei koinotiko kekthmeno. Dinei etsi kai se mas to dikaiwma na meinoyme synepeis s` ayth th qesh ths E. E. kai na apaitoyme thn efarmogh ths.

POYLIDOY: Nai, alla h apofash ths Komision einai aporroia ths apofashs toy Karntif kai oxi twn allwn graptwn keimenwn.

REPPAS: Oles aytes oi apofaseis apoteloyn ena plaisio politikhs. Den qa prepei na kanoyme epilogh qesewn, prokeimenoy etsi na ejyphrethsoyme ayto poy qewroyme oti einai pio shmantiko. Ola exoyn th shmasia toys kai ola prepei na lambanontai ypoch.

KARAKWSTAS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, qa hqela na sas rwthsw an problhmatizei thn Kybernhsh to gegonos oti h xwra mas emfanizetai, mesw twn praktikwn poy akoloyqoyn orismenes eyrwpaikes kybernhseis, ws h monh xwra mesa sthn E. E. poy dhmioyrgei proskommata sthn eyrwpaikh prooptikh ths Toyrkias.

REPPAS: H Ellada exei, kat` epanalhch, milhsei yper ths anagkhs na proseggisei h Toyrkia thn E. E., na ginei mia xwra eyrwpaikh. Ayto, omws, den shmainei oti, prokeimenoy na petyxei thn proseggish, qa dexqoyme na ginei toyrkikhs nootropias kai symperiforas h E. E.. Allo mia eyrwpaikh Toyrkia kai allo mia toyrkikoy xarakthra E. E.. Giati, ayto epiqymei h Toyrkia, h opoia prosfata kiolas eipe oti den epiqymei politikes sxeseis me thn E. E. kai h opoia aqetei tis ypoxrewseis poy exei analabei, se politiko epipedo, enanti ths E. E.. Emeis, pisteyoyme oti h stash ths Elladas -opws se polles alles periptwseis sto parelqon- einai mia stash yper twn eqnikwn, alla kai twn koinotikwn symferontwn mas. Mporei ayth h stash mas na dhmioyrgei, proskaira, ayth thn eikona apomonwshs apo tis alles xwres, pantote omws -epeidh ayto to fainomeno den einai kainoyrgio- h katalhjh einai qetikh. Yperaspizomaste ta symferonta mas, me tropo entono kai apolyto, sto plaisio sto opoio kinoyntai kai oi alles xwres, yperaspizomenes ta symferonta toys. H Ellada exei ta idia dikaiwmata me oles tis alles xwres ths E. E.. Kai ayta ta dikaiwmata qa ta askei pantote.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, den einai ojymwro h E. E. na apofasisei na anoijei ta tameia ths pros thn Toyrkia, ws mia anaptyssomenh xwra, kai apo thn allh na qelei na thn entajei sthn E. E., ws mia xwra h opoia exei ola ta exeggya kyriws ta oikonomika, alla kai ta politika; Ayto den einai ojymwro;

REPPAS: Einai ayta ta antifatika kai nefelwdh epixeirhmata poy xrhsimopoioyntai kai deixnoyn oti epidiwketai na ejyphrethqei kapoia skopimothta kai oxi ta symferonta ths E. E., ta opoia einai apolyta synyfasmena me orismenoys kanones kai arxes.

T. MPERMPERAKHS: Gia poio logo h Ellada antidra sth xorhghsh kapoioy kondylioy, to opoio dinetai ws apozhmiwsh kapoias zhmias poy paqainei h Toyrkia apo thn efarmogh ths Telwneiakhs Enwshs, apo thn opoia wfeleitai kai h Ellada prowqwntas tis ejagwges ths;

REPPAS: H Toyrkia me dikh ths epilogh symmetexei s` ayth thn Telwneiakh Enwsh me thn E. E.. Den thn ypoxrewse h E. E.. Einai kati to opoio epiqymei h E. E., alla kai h Toyrkia. Opws gia oles tis xwres h symmetoxh ayth synepagetai, metajy twn allwn, ena oikonomiko kostos, alla kai polla ofelh, to idio isxyei kai gia thn Toyrkia. H Toyrkia, loipon, einai ayth h opoia qa prepei, se politiko epipedo, na kanei xeirismoys poy ths exoyn zhthqei, oi opoioi briskoyn symfwnoys oloys toys etairoys ths E. E., prokeimenoy na odhghsei se apemplokh th sxesh ths me thn E. E., h opoia se polles periptwseis paramenei se limnazoysa katastash. Enw, oydepote h E. E. dhmioyrghse empodia sthn prospaqeia ths Toyrkias na thn proseggisei, h Toyrkia einai ayth poy, kat` epanalhch, proballei empodia kai dhmioyrgei problhmata kai telika blaptetai h idia. H Toyrkia prepei na analabei sygkekrimenes prwtoboylies poy ths exoyn epishmanqei kai ypodeixqei, prokeimenoy na beltiwsei tis sxeseis ths kai me thn Ellada, alla kai thn E. E.. Omws, h Toyrkia den prattei apolytws tipota kai einai apokleistika ypeyqynh gia to oti oi sxeseis ths me thn Ellada kai thn Eyrwph exoyn perielqei se adiejodo.

DELATOLAS: To 1995, me aformh mia apostrofh ths omilias toy tote Prwqypoyrgoy Andrea Papandreoy, sth Qessalonikh gia to ergo sto Ypoyrgeio Biomhxanias, o tote Ypoyrgos Biomhxanias kai shmerinos Prwqypoyrgos, paraithqhke. Xqes, o Prwqypoyrgos anaferqhke se dysleitoyrgies orismenwn tomewn ths Kybernhshs. Shmera, oi perissoteres efhmerides anaferontai s' ayto, ypodeiknyontas toys antistoixoys ypeyqynoys gia toys tomeis, Ypoyrgoys kai den eidame kamia antidrash oyte kan ypobolh paraithsewn.

REPPAS: Den yparxei oydeis logos na ypoblhqoyn paraithseis. Den qa prepei na sygxeoyme tis politikes synqhkes poy yparxoyn se mia orismenh istorikh periodo me tis synqhkes poy yparxoyn se mia allh periodo, opws einai h shmerinh. Gnwrizete poly kala oti kat' epanalhch exei ginei syzhthsh gia problhmata ta opoia apasxoloyn toys polites sthn kaqhmerinh zwh toys. Gi` ayta exei milhsei o Prwqypoyrgos opws kai alla stelexh, sto plaisio synedriasewn kybernhtikwn kai kommatikwn organwn. H anafora sta problhmata apodeiknyei eilikrinh diaqesh na asxolhqoyme m` ayta na ta antimetwpisoyme kai na ta lysoyme. To oti endeiktika anaferqhkan diafora qemata ta opoia apasxoloyn thn kaqhmerinh zwh twn politwn, den shmainei oti stoys tomeis aytoys den exei shmeiwqei ajiologotath proodos. Opws epishs, den shmainei oti den yparxoyn problhmata se alloys tomeis. Problhmata yparxoyn se oloys toys tomeis. Kai ston tomea ton opoio egw parakoloyqw, an qelete na meinw s' ayto, yparxoyn para polla problhmata. Kai qa sas ejomologhqw kati: Oso pisteyeis oti exeis kanei arketa, oti exeis lysei arketa problhmata, oti exei shmeiwqei mia proodos ston tomea me ton opoio asxoleisai, toso diapistwneis oti ayta ta opoia prepei akoma na ginoyn, einai perissotera. Pisteyw oti ayto einai ena deigma eyqynhs. O Prwqypoyrgos einai realisths kai eilikrinhs. Epilegei na einai xrhsimos kai oxi eyxaristos. Na mila th glwssa ths eyqynhs. Ayto, omws, den shmainei oti h anafora sta problhmata poy apasxoloyn ton Ellhna polith, prepei na proswpopoieitai kai na syndeetai me sygkekrimenoys politikoys paragontes. Giati qa htan oleqrio gia thn politikh, alla kai gia th dhmosia zwh genikotera, na fobomaste na syzhthsoyme gia problhmata poy mas apasxoloyn, mono kai mono apo to fobo mh dhmioyrghqoyn lanqasmenes entypwseis. Me ta problhmata den asxoleitai kai den syzhta gi' ayta aytos poy den gnwrizei thn yparjh toys. Yparxoyn problhmata se oloys toys tomeis. Eimaste xaroymenoi giati se oloys toys tomeis exoyme kanei shmantikh proodo. Eimaste ypeyqynoi giati prepei na enteinoyme thn prospaqeia mas, wste na lysoyme kai ta problhmata poy akoma yparxoyn. Kai leme eyqarsws oti nai se oloys toys tomeis yparxoyn problhmata. Kai sto diko moy tomea para polla. Pisteyw oti apotelei gnwrisma mias ypeyqynhs Kybernhshs na syzhtaei etsi kai m` ayto ton tropo ta qemata poy apasxoloyn toys sympolites mas. Kai gi` ayto akribws qa prepei mono epaino na prokalei kai oxi thn ejagwgh symperasmatwn poy se teleytaia analysh den antapokrinontai stis epiloges toy Prwqypoyrgoy.

FILIPPAKOPOYLOS: Milhsate gia deigma eyqynhs ths Kybernhshs kai toy Prwqypoyrgoy. To deigma politikhs eyqynhs poios qa to analabei;

REPPAS: Ma, ayto einai deigma eyqynhs kai otan milw gia eyqynh, milw kai gia politikh eyqynh.

FILIPPAKOPOYLOS: Gia ta rantza kai ta "fakelakia", poios eyqynetai, an den eyqynetai politika o armodios Ypoyrgos; Gia tis sygkoinwnies h gia thn egklhmatikothta, poios analambanei thn politikh eyqynh;

REPPAS: Polla tetoia problhmata apasxoloyn toys Ellhnes polites edw kai polla xronia. Gia kapoia problhmata -sta opoia ki eseis anaferqhkate- miloyme edw kai mia h dyo dekaeties. An milame gia ta rantza sta nosokomeia einai mia syzhthsh poy ginetai apo th dekaetia toy '70. Gnwrizete poly kala ti exei ginei apo tote mexri shmera, me prwtoboylia ths Kybernhshs mas, sto xwro ths ygeias. Posa nea nosokomeia exoyn ktistei. Posa krebatia exoyn doqei stoys exontes anagkh periqalchs. Ti prospaqeies exoyn ginei me kondylia, me ejoplismoys poy exoyn prowqhqei ston tomea ths ygeias kai ths periqalchs. Apo thn allh omws, emeis epeidh akribws noiwqoyme oti anametriomaste me thn eyqynh poy exoyme apenanti ston ellhniko lao, qa miloyme gia ta problhmata poy yparxoyn se oloys toys tomeis. Ayto den shmainei -eseis prepei na to deite ayto- oti den exei syntelestei shmantikh -kai se orismenoys tomeis qeamatikh- proodos kai beltiwsh. Alla pantote yparxoyn problhmata. Kai emeis qeloyme na miloyme gia ayto to opoio prepei na kanoyme giati dinoyme maxh emprosqofylakhs. Den koitoyme pros ta pisw oyte epanapayomaste stis dafnes mas. Ayth einai h nootropia mas kai h aisqhsh eyqynhs poy exoyme ws Kybernhsh.

FILHS: Qa hqela na rwthsw an o Prwqypoyrgos, meta ta osa akoyse xqes sthn Koinoboyleytikh Omada kai tis eyqynes poy kai s' ayton katalogisthkan apo boyleytes, oi opoioi eixan symprajei sthn eklogh toy sthn prwqypoyrgia ths xwras kai thn Proedria toy PASOK, qewrei oti h sxesh poy kalliergei me toys polites einai sxesh me thn opoia parakamptetai to komma kai o idios apeyqynetai kat' eyqeian sthn koinwnia.

REPPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos einai kai Proedros toy Kinhmatos kai ws Proedros toy Kinhmatos exei epityxei, an mh ti allo, ta organa toy Kinhmatos na leitoyrgoyn dhmokratika kai syllogika kai na lambanontai oi apofaseis me diafanh tropo. Ayto, einai mia proodos gia ta ths kommatikhs leitoyrgias toy Kinhmatos. Asfalws, o Prwqypoyrgos ws Proedros toy PASOK epiqymei thn anasyntajh twn kommatikwn dynamewn kai thn energopoihsh twn organwmenwn kommatikwn dynamewn sthn prospaqeia poy kanei h Kybernhsh na epityxei toys megaloys eqnikoys kai koinwnikoys stoxoys. Kaqe allo para epiqymei na parakamcei to Komma o Prwqypoyrgos. To exei apodeijei ayto allwste me th stash toy, afoy syxnotata, taktikotata einai parwn o idios stis synedriaseis, oxi mono twn koryfaiwn kaqodhghtikwn organwn, alla kai twn mesaiwn organwn. Ayto deixnei, me ton kalytero tropo, thn empistosynh poy trefei stis dynameis kai ta organa toy Kommatos, alla kai thn epiqymia toy na entaqei h prospaqeia, apo thn pleyra toy Kommatos, wste na antapokriqei sthn apostolh toy.

FILHS: An qewrei o Prwqypoyrgos oti h emplokh toy k. Giannopoyloy, poy askei bebaia ena syntagmatiko dikaiwma toy, mesw twn dikastikwn diekdikhsewn toy, se baros toy k. Katribanoy, dhmioyrgei problhmata hqoys kai yfoys kai an qa toy ypodeijei, opws eipe o k. Katribanos, na paraithqei ths boyleytikhs asylias toy o k. Giannopoylos kai epi isois orois na antimetwpisei tis, kat` ayton, sykofanties poy toy apeyqynei o k. Katribanos;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti o k. Giannopoylos anelabe ayth thn prwtoboylia, epeidh prepei na yperaspistei thn timh kai thn proswpikh istoria toy. Oi xarakthrismoi kai oi kathgories enantion toy den einai tekmhriwmenoi, einai anistorhta. Kai qewrhse oti etsi eprepe na antidrasei. Einai allo to ena, allo to allo. Kai qa prepei na kanoyme mia diastolh metajy ths politikhs kritikhs kai ths amayrwshs ths proswpikhs istorias h ths sykofanthshs ths proswpikothtas enos sympolith mas. Sth deyterh ayth periptwsh kaqenas exei to dikaiwma na analabei tis prwtoboylies poy qewrei katallhloteres, prokeimenoy na yperaspistei ton eayto toy. To plaisio twra ths politikhs antidikias, gnwrizete para poly kala oti epifylassei polles fores antiparaqeseis me ojythta kai me akraioys xarakthrismoys. Ayto den einai pantote o, ti to kalytero, alla en pash periptwsei mporei na pei kapoios oti sto plaisio ths politikhs diapalhs einai kati to opoio mporei na ginei dekto.

FILHS: Kai mia allh erwthsh paremferh gia to hqos kai to yfos ths Kybernhshs: Xqes, me boyleyma to Symboylio Efetwn aphllaje treis synadelfoys apo thn kathgoria poy toys eixe apaggelqei meta apo parakinhsh ths politikhs hgesias toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn oti askwntas to leitoyrghma toys dieprajan to adikhma ths kataskopeias. Qa hqela na moy peite an yparxei kapoio sxolio, kapoia ikanopoihsh ths Kybernhshs gi` ayth thn ejelijh, oti dhladh den epibebaiwnontai oi ypocies toy YPEJ oti kapoioi synadelfoi mas einai kataskopoi. An eisqe, dhladh, ikanopoihmenos. Kai kati poio oysiastiko, an qa analabei prwtoboylia h Kybernhsh na pacei h diwjh poy eixe askhqei enantion allwn synadelfwn me paremfereis kathgories.

REPPAS: Oson afora thn apofash enos dikastikoy organoy den exw na kanw kanena sxolio. Apla, gia to qema ayto mporw na sas parapemcw, mias kai to qetete kai pali sth syzhthsh mas, se dhlwsh-topoqethsh poy eixa kanei edw kai arketo kairo otan eixe prokycei to sxetiko qema.

FILHS: Rwthsa kai kati allo: Oti edw dikaiwnontai oi dhmosiografoi...

REPPAS: Milhsa gi` ayto kai sas parapempw se ekeinh thn apanthsh.

FILHS: Qa hqela na apanthsete sygkekrimena. To prwto erwthma einai ean eseis meta th dikastikh ejelijh kai th dikaiwsh twn synadelfwn ektimate oti qa prepei na diatypwsete ws Kybernhsh mia aplh apoch, oti prepei na stamathsoyn tetoies diwjeis enantion dhmosiografwn.

REPPAS: Qa sas parapemcw sthn topoqethsh poy eixa kanei tote, h opoia, metajy twn allwn, periexei kai th lejh poy xrhsimopoihsate kai eseis sthn topoqethsh sas. Hmoyn safhs.

KACAMPELHS: Gia to qema toy k. Giannopoyloy ena sxolio poy bebaia ginetai ypo anisoys oroys ayth h dikastikh ejelijh, dioti o enas einai Ypoyrgos Dikaiosynhs....

REPPAS: Qelete ena sxolio gi` ayto; Asfalws, kaqe poliths apenanti sth Dikaiosynh exei ta idia dikaiwmata. Gnwrizete para poly kala, oti o Ypoyrgos Dikaiosynhs kaqe allo para exei epidiwjei na ajiopoihsei h na ekmetalleytei th qesh poy katexei. Exoyme tetoia paradeigmata sto parelqon. Kai se teleytaia analysh an ayto einai kati to opoio dexeste, opws prokyptei apo thn erwthsh sas, shmainei oti den exete empistosynh sthn ellhnikh dikaiosynh. Na, omws, poy h ellhnikh dikaiosynh -kai exei synafeia me to qema poy eqese prohgoymenws o k. Filhs- elabe mia qesh, mia apofash mesw organwn ths, gia ena qema to opoio eixe anakinhsei ena tmhma ths Kybernhshs. Ara loipon, prepei na exoyme empistosynh sthn ellhnikh dikaiosynh kai parakalw ayto na einai ena stoixeio to opoio na mhn tiqetai ypo amfisbhthsh.

KACAMPELHS: Bebaia sthn erwthsh sas h apanthsh moy einai oti egw proswpika exw apolyth empistosynh. Synexizw thn erwthsh: Epanerxomai s' ayto to opoio eqese o k. Delatolas. Eipate oti yparxoyn diaforetikes sygkyries. Me aformh ayto hqela na rwthsw to ejhs: O palios kanonas poy gnwrizoyme oloi, oti otan enas Ypoyrgos ekfrazei dhmosiws tis diafwnies toy me thn kybernhtikh politikh, taytoxronws kai aytonohta prepei na paraiteitai, isxyei; Kai to rwtw dedomenoy oti akoysa xqes enan Ypoyrgo ths Kybernhshs, ton k. Mpalta, na leei oti diafwnei syxna me polla qemata ths kybernhtikhs politikhs. Kai to eipe dhmosiws. Exoyme ara mia metabolh aytoy toy isxyontos kanona; Mporoyn oi politikoi na diafwnoyn dhmosiws xwris na paraitoyntai;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh einai ena swma to opoio leitoyrgei me dhmokratikoys kanones. H politikh ths, opws apofasizetai apo ta kybernhtika organa kalyptei toys pantes. Ayth thn politikh yperaspizontai kai efarmozoyn, metajy twn allwn, prwtoi oi Ypoyrgoi kai oi Yfypoyrgoi. Gnwrizete oti sto plaisio twn synedriasewn -gi' ayto akribws ginontai synedriaseis kai ayto einai kai to tekmhrio ths dhmokratias- diatypwnontai diafores apoceis. Ginontai eishghseis, ekfrazontai problhmatismoi h kai antirrhseis. To qema einai oti oi apofaseis oi opoies lambanontai ekfrazoyn toys pantes kai aytes ylopoioyntai. Ayto einai ekeino to opoio exei shmasia. Bebaiws, mexri na lhfqoyn oi apofaseis o kaqenas exei th dynatothta na ekfrasei th dikh toy apoch. Otan lhfqoyn oi apofaseis, oloi -pisteyw- exoyn epideijei sto metro twn dynatothtwn toys, synepeia sthn kateyqynsh efarmoghs toys.

KACAMPELHS: Qa moy epitrecete na pw oti o Yfypoyrgos xrhsimopoihse ton oro "diafwnia" poy einai prwtognwro gia kybernhtiko stelexos. Den eipe "exw thn apoch, exw ton problhmatismo" kai ola ayta poy lete. Eipe "diafwnw". Dexomai thn apanthsh sas kai den epanerxomai...

REPPAS: Oxi. Den qelw na meinete omws me thn entypwsh oti apefyga na kanw kai egw to diko moy sxolio.

KACAMPELHS: Me kalycate apolytws.

REPPAS: Oi apofaseis sta kybernhtika organa exoyn lhfqei omofwna. Kai gnwrizete poly kala oti mexri na lhfqoyn oi apofaseis -den mporei na ginei alliws- o kaqenas diatypwnei tis apoceis toy. Kai tis apoceis aytes, ws proswpikes apoceis, mporei na tis diathrei. To qema omws einai oti ws Ypoyrgos h Yfypoyrgos ths Kybernhshs ergazetai meqodika gia thn efarmogh twn apofasewn poy exoyn lhfqei.

KACAMPELHS: Estw kai an bgainei dhmosiws kai leei "diafwnw";

REPPAS: Estw kai an exei ekfrasei mia diaforetikh apoch kata th diarkeia syzhthshs kai lhchs ths apofashs, pragma to opoio deixnei oti exei mia diaforetikh proseggish.

KACAMPELHS: Edw exoyme mia dhmosiopoihsh diafwniwn. Den epimenw omws s' ayto, hqela na rwthsw kati allo. O k. Mpaltas eipe kai kati allo ws kybernhtiko stelexos, profanws. Oti protimaei na xasei to PASOK tis ekloges, para na yparjei allagh ths poreias toy kybernhtikoy ergoy. Hqela na rwthsw an to symmerizetai kai ayto h Kybernhsh.

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti o k. Mpaltas einai apo ekeinoys poy exoyn th bebaiothta oti qa kerdisoyme tis epomenes ekloges. Prepei na prospaqhsoyme para poly gia na xasoyme tis ekloges. Kai den nomizw oti yparxoyn sthn Kybernhsh, sto PASOK, dynameis oi opoies exoyn th diaqesh na katabaloyn ston ypertato baqmo ayth thn prospaqeia gia na xasoyme tis ekloges! Antiqeta, oloi ergazontai gia na epityxoyme sto ergo mas kai na kerdisoyme tis ekloges. O k. Mpaltas einai apo ekeinoys poy exoyn moxqhsei gia na kerdisoyme tis prohgoymenes ekloges kai moxqei gia na kerdisoyme kai tis epomenes.

MELETHS: Qa epanelqw sthn apanthsh poy dwsate ston k. Delatola: Den dhmioyrgei qema ajiopistias ths kybernhtikhs politikhs, to gegonos oti o Prwqypoyrgos mesa se enamish xrono, gia pollosth fora, anagkazetai na anaferqei se tomeis ths kybernhtikhs politikhs me problhmata, opws einai h ygeia, h asfaleia, h apasxolhsh; Den dhmioyrgei qema ajiopistias ayto;

REPPAS: H anafora ayth dedomenoy oti egine gia pollosth fora, opws kai eseis lete, den dikaiologei th megalh entypwsh, poy gia prwth fora twra, meta thn teleytaia epanalhch ths dhmioyrghqhke. Kai deyteron, h anafora sta problhmata ayta einai endeiktikh. To gegonos oti synexizei adiatarakta h Kybernhsh ayth to ergo ths, me th synqesh poy eixe kai tote -poy gia prwth fora egine anafora sta problhmata ayta- shmainei oti exei shmeiwqei shmantikh proodos. Shmainei oti exoyme megalh beltiwsh, poy apotelei kai stoixeio ikanopoihshs gia to ergo mas, xwris apo thn allh na paraitoymaste apo to stoxo mas, na antimetwpisoyme kai na lysoyme ta yparxonta problhmata. Kai problhmata yparxoyn se oloys toys tomeis...

MELETHS: Se sygkekrimenoys tomeis.

REPPAS:... kai den ejairw kanenan. Ta perissotera kai ta pleon dysepilyta sto diko moy tomea.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den anaferqhke se sas.

REPPAS: Einai endeiktikh h anafora. Oyai kai alimono, thn wra poy lew oti o Prwqypoyrgos einai eilikrinhs kai qelei na milaei gia ta problhmata poy apasxoloyn ton ellhniko lao, na ennow oti h anafora s` ayta ta problhmata mono, shmainei oti o Prwqypoyrgos qewrei pws den yparxoyn alla problhmata, pws ola ta alla exoyn lyqei kai pws mono ayta einai ta problhmata poy mas apasxoloyn. Einai ayta kai polla alla, ta opoia mas apasxoloyn kai prepei na lysoyme.

MELETHS: Einai, omws, sygkekrimenh h anafora poy ginetai epaneilhmmena. Den einai endeiktikh anafora, kyrie Ypoyrge.

REPPAS: Gia prwth fora, omws, kai oxi epaneilhmmena sas ekane tosh megalh entypwsh.

MOYRTZHS: Eipate, prohgoymenws, kyrie Ekproswpe, oti den syntrexei kanenas logos na ypobaloyn paraithseis oi tesseris Ypoyrgoi. Epeidh eimaste oloi ypociasmenoi, afoy ta reportaz htan taytoshma se sympoliteyomenes kai antipoliteyomenes efhmerides, mhpws gia logoys eyqijias, phre shmera kapoios ek twn tessarwn ton Prwqypoyrgo thlefwno h zhthse ton k. Pantagia na paraponeqei oti o Typos ermhneyse etsi ayth thn anafora toy Prwqypoyrgoy;

REPPAS: Apanthsa s` ayta ta qemata kai na moy epitrecete na kleisw etsi thn apanthsh moy, doqentos oti h erwthsh sas eixe kai ena stoixeio eirwneias pros toys sygkekrimenoys Ypoyrgoys, pragma to opoio den einai paradekto.

MOYRTZHS: O Ypoyrgos Ergasias k. Papaiwannoy, otan rwthqhke shmera, diatypwse kapoia apeilh. Ekane mia dhlwsh poy thn ejelaban oi dhmosiografoi ws apeilh. Eipe oti den mila twra, alla qa milhsei argotera gi` ayto to qema.

REPPAS: Apeyqynqeite stoys dhmosiografoys poy ayto to ejelaban ws apeilh, na sas dwsoyn thn apanthsh toys gia to an einai apeilh h oxi. O k. Papaiwannoy eipe ayto to opoio eipe, kai bebaiws -opws oloi etsi kai o k. Papaiwannoy- qa epilegei ton tropo kai to xrono poy qa omilei.

ARGYROS: O k. Mpaltas milhse gia eswterikh yponomeysh toy Prwqypoyrgoy apo to PASOK. Symmerizeste ayth thn apoch;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti o Prwqypoyrgos kai Proedros toy Kinhmatos exei eklegei me diadikasies poy problepontai apo to Katastatiko toy Kinhmatos, eite ton Kanonismo ths Koinoboyleytikhs Omadas toy PASOK. Oloi dexontai -kai oydeis eqese diaforetiko qema- oti o k. Shmiths paramenei Prwqypoyrgos ths xwras kai Proedros toy Kinhmatos. Kai, ws Prwqypoyrgos kai Proedros toy Kinhmatos, askei kai qa synexisei na askei plhrws ta kaqhkonta toy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Xqes, o Prwqypoyrgos sthn enarkthria omilia toy, eipe oti mexri edw, terma, na stamathsei h eswkommatikh antipoliteysh, na stamathsoyn ola ayta kai oti den prokeitai na xaristei se kanenan. Kai molis teleiwse, "arxisan ta organa". Arxise o k. Kastanidhs kai polloi alloi poy edeijan ton idio kai toy eipan, "esy eyqynesai, esy ftais". Qa yparjoyn kyrwseis gi` aytoys;

REPPAS: Oydeis mporei na dexqei kyrwsh kai timwria giati ekfrazei eleyqera kai dhmokratika tis apoceis toy mesa sta organa toy Kinhmatos h ths Kybernhshs. Gnwrizete poly kala oti kat` epanalhch miloyme gi` aytes tis syllogikes kai dhmokratikes leitoyrgies. Exete pleon mia akomh epibebaiwsh -eseis h opoios allos einai toso dyspistos- toy gegonotos oti to PASOK, ws Kybernhsh kai ws Kinhma, exei epityxei enan tropo leitoyrgias, o opoios einai prwtognwros gia ta ellhnika dedomena. Ayto deixnei oti to PASOK exei isxyres rizes kai megales antoxes, prokeimenoy na antimetwpisei tis proklhseis twn kairwn. Einai ena kalo mhnyma ayto, giati deixnei oti to PASOK einai panetoimo na antimetwpisei kai ta dyskolotera.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, giati tote toys eipe ws edw, den jana-anexomai... Pws toys anexqhke meta apo ena tetarto;

REPPAS: Poios sas eipe oti o Prwqypoyrgos eipe pote kai se opoiondhpote na mhn omilei, na mh leei thn apoch toy; Antiqetws. O Prwqypoyrgos exei kat` epanalhch pei mia frash, thn opoia kai egw exw akoysei, thn exw xrhsimopoihsei kai thn epanaferw kai pali, giati pisteyw oti einai mia frash poy prepei na meinei: "Den qa ajize na eimaste perissoteroi, an den eimaste diaforetikoi". Ayth einai h oysia ths politikhs mas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Xqes eipe alla. Xqes eipe, "ws edw, den qa anexqw"... To eipe h den to eipe;

REPPAS: Alla pragmata eipe oti den qa anexqei o Prwqypoyrgos. Parakalw na diabasete thn omilia toy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Egw th diabasa poly kala. Ayto poy eipe, oti "den qa anexqw", ti ennooyse;

REPPAS: Eipame kat` epanalhch: Gia ta qemata ths leitoyrgias toy Kinhmatos h ths sympnoias h ths kalhs eikonas, h opoia prepei na dhmioyrgeitai, prokeimenoy to kybernhtiko ergo, to opoio einai ploysio kai shmantiko, na mhn adikeitai. Kai exoyme fainomena se olh thn Ellada, an qelete, opoy stelexh, paragontes, akoloyqhsan mia taktikh h opoia den htan pantote symfwnh me tis kentrikes epiloges h me tis apofaseis twn organwn. Ayto akribws einai kati, to opoio -qa moy epitrecete na pw- synebale metajy twn allwn sth diamorfwsh toy eklogikoy apotelesmatos stis nomarxiakes kai dhmotikes ekloges. Ayto, loipon, einai poly diaforetiko apo thn anesh, to dikaiwma h kai thn ypoxrewsh poy exei kaqe stelexos sta organa poy symmetexei na ekfrazei eleyqera tis apoceis toy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ma, kyrie Ypoyrge, ti allo prepei na toy poyn gia na mhn anexqei, apo ayta poy toy eipan xqes;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti, apo to 1996 poy anadeixqhke Prwqypoyrgos o k. Shmiths mexri to Septembrio toy 1996, diatypwqhkan polles apoceis poy eixan xarakthra h eginan se ena klima analogo m` ayto poy kai shmera diatypwnontai kapoies apoceis. Gnwrizete oti kerdisame tis ekloges toy 1996 me th systrateysh olwn twn dynamewn. Kai prepei ki eseis na labete ypoch sas toyto: Oti to PASOK- poy, epeidh einai dhmokratikotato komma, exei thn polyteleia, na dinei dromo kai diodo, wste na ekfrazontai oles oi apoceis- me th systrateysh olwn twn dynamewn poy ekfrazoyn aytes tis apoceis, qa kerdisei kai tis epomenes eklogikes maxes.

FILHS: Apo to xqes, sto ayrio: Exete pei oti ayrio qa synedriasei h Kybernhtikh Epitroph. Qa hqela na gnwrizw an qa labei oristikes apofaseis gia ton Proypologismo. Kai gia poio logo kriqhke anagkaio, par` oti den eixe anakoinwqei apo esas, na klhqei na symmetasxei ayrio -den gnwrizw an alhqeyei- o Dioikhths ths Trapezas ths Ellados.

REPPAS: Exei klhqei kai o Dioikhths ths Trapezas ths Ellados na labei meros s` ayth th synedriash. H synedriash ayth einai h prwth poy ginetai se toso ychlo syllogiko epipedo, dhladh se kybernhtiko organo, gia to neo Proypologismo. Prin oloklhrwqei ayth h syzhthsh, den einai dynaton na gnwrizoyme poia qa einai ta apotelesmata ths. Ayta qa ta syzhthsoyme ayrio.

FILHS: Rwtw an ayrio qa lhfqei h telikh apofash h an qa yparjoyn kai alles...

REPPAS: Sas eipa oti einai h prwth syzhthsh poy ginetai s` ayto to koryfaio epipedo. To oikonomiko epiteleio exei syzhthsei kai bebaiws, exei syzhthsei to qema me ton Prwqypoyrgo. Ayrio ayto to qema qa erqei pros syzhthsh se ena koryfaio organo. Kai bebaiws, qa antimetwpistei apo toys symmetexontes me ypeyqyno tropo. H symmetoxh toy Dioikhth ths Trapezas ths Ellados krinetai anagkaia, logw toy qematos poy syzhteitai. Ayrio to meshmeri qa exete kai eseis ypoch sas ti einai ayto poy syzhthqhke.

BITALHS: Xqes, o Prwqypoyrgos sthn omilia toy eipe oti den qa anexqei alles omadopoihseis, oti einai diaspastikes oi apoceis poy miloyn gia meiochfia kai pleiochfia mesa sto Komma, den qymamai akribws ta logia toy. Ayto, omws, ti shmainei kyrie Ypoyrge; Oti anagnwrizei o Prwqypoyrgos pws mesa sto PASOK yparxoyn omadopoihseis k. lp. ; Qa analabei o Prwqypoyrgos kapoies prwtoboylies parapanw gia na dialysei estw aytes tis omades; Ti akribws protiqetai na kanei;

REPPAS: O k. Shmiths einai Proedros olwn twn dynamewn toy PASOK, einai Proedros toy oloy kai eniaioy PASOK, den einai Proedros mias pleiochfias poy ton anedeije, kapoia politikh kai istorikh stigmh, s` ayto to ajiwma. Apo ekeinh thn wra den einai ekproswpos ths pleiochfias, einai Proedros oloy toy Kinhmatos.

Sas eyxaristw.


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